Bogie - Diabetes 7 years - Cancer just diagnosed

[Denise]

Hello! I know most of you here, have read, replied a couple times but haven't posted till now.

Bogie, 11 year old black schnauzer, diabetic dx Sept. 2001, atypical Cushings dx'ed Feb. 2005. Had been 26 pounds till recently, now 22 and recent diet change also to a freeze dried meat and veggie food and some canned no grain food.

Bogie had been on 13 units Novolin N for years. With his weight loss and diet change I thought I'd better do a curve.
ACTH last month showed nothing to be alarmed by, still not treating.

I'd been seeing some 300 numbers at fasting but he wasn't PU/PD and acted well, chasing birds and squirrels and barking at everything.
April 8
8 a.m. 307
10 a.m. 150
12 p.m. 91 chicken snack
2 p.m. 66 fed him a bisquit and the last bite from my banana
4: 45 p.m. 89 fed him a smaller bisquit
7 :20 p.m. 381 AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I lowered his dose to 11 that night and next day (April 9) numbers were
249 and 348

April 10: 192 and 304

April 11: lowered to
10 units 428 and 131

April 12 morning fasting was 584! 2 hours later he was 196 and 2 hours after that he was 82, PM fsating 462.

April 13 lowered dose to 9 units and got fasting bg's of 323 and 352. Thought I'd better get some more numbers so tested at noon and he was 158

April 14 508 at 8 a.m. and at 11:30 he was 110!

He was up drinking last night, more than normal time at the bowl so I tested him at 4 a.m. and he was 386, usually doesn't drink a ton in this range, I gave one unit of R and at fasting he was 216.

I don't know how low to lower his dose but it still looks like rebound. The insulin is really kicking in fast and lowering him wa too much and then I don't know if I am over correcting with needed snacks or not.

I'm not sure anyone has any advice but I needed to vent it.

Planned on doing another curve while still at 9 units (this is day 4) but am thinking I need to lower dose and wait a few more days.
I missed getting a 10 a.m. test today (doc appt.) noon he is 304 so not sure if he dipped today or not!

I had labs done a few weeks ago so I could schedule a dental for him but don't want to take him in for that with bg such a mess.

Thoughts? Advice? Want a dog????

[k9diabetes]

My first thought on a quick scan is that the diet change has created a mismatch between food and insulin.

Another possibility is that his metabolism of the insulin has changed.

Possibly both.

This...

8 a.m. 307
10 a.m. 150
12 p.m. 91 chicken snack
2 p.m. 66 fed him a bisquit and the last bite from my banana
4: 45 p.m. 89 fed him a smaller bisquit
7 :20 p.m. 381 AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!


doesn't really look like rebound to me because his BG stayed pretty level for several hours after that 66 but also rose slightly rather than dropped further. It looks more like lack of duration combined with the glucose from the biscuit.

I can't see any way to sort it out short of a curve and if you get numbers that are low but not dangerously low, try to avoid giving him any snacks so you can watch the insulin work without adding that in as a variable.

Any possibility it's this bottle of insulin?

Natalie

[Dollydog]

Hi Denise,
I'm not any help but I sure feel for you!! :confused: :eek: Wishing you all the best in getting it sorted out and will be checking back to see how it gets worked out. After so many years with diabetes it must be disheartening to see this, especially with the ACTH test not showing anything alarming.
Take care,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

[Brandy mom]

Hi Denise

Has Bogie UTI clear up? I know this is strange but When Brandy had a UTI she was using the insulin different. I thought rebounds at first too until I did a curve. She just keep bouncing up and down all day. Took her to the vet and she had a UTI. A few day on medication and everything went back into place.

Dawn and the girls

[Denise]

Well I got side tracked from Bogie's issues when I got the call that Reba ahs Cushings, atypical....so, give me time to digest this and make all the calls and do the reading I need to and I will get back to Bogie!

Bubba is doing OK too. Not as clingy and whiny was he was last night so I hope by tomorrow he will be back to normal. He's driving me nuts!
(he has a tumor removed Monday morning, from his hiney area, next to an anal gland. Waiting for path report, more wiating!!!)

[Denise]

Dawn, need to check Bogie again for UTI. He had a UA a couple weeks ago and nothing showed but protein but I bought a test kit and will test him tomorrow. I think if it's abck we need a culture grown this time!

[ladysmom06]

Hi Denise,

Can't help with Bogie but wanted to wish you luck with getting it all sorted out. Sorry to hear that Reba has cushing's. You sure have a lot going on right now. Hugs to you and the gang.

[k9diabetes]

I can't believe it - you've got another pair of twinsies!

Glad you were able to get Reba sorted out fast now that you're an expert on atypical Cushings. Just knowing that it exists and how to test for it is a sanity saver.

Anxious to hear about Bubba too,

Natalie

[eyelostit]

Sorry you are having trouble, your curve looks like Niki's used to at times

8 a.m. 307
10 a.m. 150
12 p.m. 91 chicken snack
2 p.m. 66 fed him a bisquit and the last bite from my banana
4: 45 p.m. 89 fed him a smaller bisquit
7 :20 p.m. 381 AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know you're experienced with the DB

Either that small biscuit, shot up the BG of 381, or during nite went low then got hi from the liver (whats it called again, it causes the highs)

It looks like to me at 2:00 the biscuit (isn't that a fast carb?) and the banana would be also would get into system faster and raise the BG then the BG would lower faster.

So at 12:00 or 11:00 I'd give some brocoilli or other veg and a bit of oatmeal or the brown rice, and around 11 pm I give a little broc and oats.

The biscuit at 4:45 could have raised the BG, but I don't know if the biscuits are actually a fast carb, I know I can't give to Niki.

Its taken me forever to get Niki in a Normal (whats normal :rolleyes:) range.

I give her snack at 3-4 hrs, I have to give her some broc and oats or br. rice, about a tablespoon of each and sometimes 4 kibble with it.

Then at about 6-7 hours a bit more of broc and rice without kibble.

If i don't do this her BG shoots up to over 200, her insulin kicks in about 1 1/2 hrs and don't start to wear off until 9 hrs past feeding then I get a slow decrease in BG till meal time,the slow decrease could be starting at 8pm BG at 180 from the treat and end up with a 120 or a 101 pre meal.

on weekend she had a pre meal walk, BG 64, I don't like that kind of low for her so I delayed injection till 45 min.

But this is just Niki's way, it gets so frustrating at times, as I could get a 300 anyday :confused:

I never like her low (my considered low is 90 or under for her) but I seen her go into shock and I never want to see it again.

Then with 2nd meal I give the same snack at 2-3 hrs and lower insulin by 1/2 unit.

Hope this helps, maybe bogies body is just changing

I don't know what you feed, but i hope this helps alittle, for bogie getting DB in 2001 you are doing good. :)

How is your sister?

[Denise]

Bogie is driving me nuts! Now he's decided not to eat like normal and each meal can be different. He had given up on his veggies and that's when I went to freeze dried raw, now he is scarfing green beans again.

This morning all he would eat was grain free kibble, didn't touch the beans, cottage cheese (added again cause he's lost weight) or canned. He will NOT eat the freeze dried he loved 2 weeks ago.

I have no idea how to dose him so am doing another curve today but not sure it will tell me much.

Reba and Bubba both go to ISU tomorrow, what a day that will be!!!!

Molly is doing great. Her bg's are running between 100-200 so I can be thankful for ONE pet not giving me grief at least! : )

[rhodesian46]

Hi Denise,
if its not one pet it is another!! Have Pebbles results in already will post later!!!:D

[forscooter]

Hi Denise,

Just a thought here....not sure if it can happen in dogs but it can in people. Sometimes, after having diabetes for a while, you can get a type of neuropathy that is called gastroparesis. It basically means that the GI tract takes longer to digest food.

So, what I am wondering is if the insulin is kicking in but they food is delayed in its digestion causing the drop in the BG and then when the food is digested, you see the BG go back up high? This can happen with people with diabetes and thought maybe it may help or be worth asking the vet about.

You have your hands full...I am sending my very best wishes for some peace for you soon! Beth, Scooter and Bailey

[k9diabetes]

I hate it when they get picky about food... I was talking with Patti about her poodle, Max, this weekend and he's doing the same thing. He's been tested every which way and they can't find anything wrong with him. But he will eat something for a week or two and then refuse it and it's on to something else. He's the dog that goes hypo on 1/4 unit of insulin... ugh!

I'm starting to think some of it is just old age crotchedyness!

Natalie

[Denise]

Thanks for the info Beth! I WILL ask about it.

Nat, I feel something is going on with him. Going to start with a UA on Friday and go from there. I can't find his latest labs from a few weeks ago so will have to get another copy to study.

Maybe I should just haul him to ISU too! LOL NOT!

[k9diabetes]

Oh, I don't like to hear that. I hope it's nothing serious!!!

I was really glad we did the ultrasound. The doc charges a reasonable price and I sleep a lot better so am happy to pay it.

I haven't had a chance to read up on fibrosarcoma. How's Bubba doing?

Natalie

[Gooch]

Ahoy, Denise!

Dang! Reba, too... they really pick you, don't they :-)
Will you go the melatonin route?

I hope the UA goes well- I can only suggest you do it by cysto... a free catch only delayed things for Olive and made the bacteria super potent and hard to get rid of (she's on her 3rd round of antibiotics) grrrr. Her bgs were really funky too at the onset of her uti.

x
Eliza and Olive

[ladysmom06]

Hi Denise,

Sorry:(:( your still having problems with Bogie. It always something with these little pups of ours. I HATE IT when they turn on their food. Lady did that awhile back - she had been licking her bowl clean and then one day decided she didn't like what I was feeding her. She had been on trilo for a couple months when she started that - I thought that maybe her taste buds changed from the trilo - anyway I decided to mix her 2 meats together and so far it's working. Last week I gave her just 1 meat and she left more than half of her food so back to 2 meats and she's licking the bowl again. Hoping you get things sorted out real soon. Hugs to you and the gang.

Beth - thanks for that info - it's very intersting - something I will ask the vet about.

[k9diabetes]

Eliza and Olive!!

How do you say "so happy to see you here" in Greek?

Natalie

[Kiska'smom]

Hi Denise,

I was just reading your thread! OMG, you have so many individual needs to care for! You have some very lucky pups to have a mom who is so on top of things. I hope that all of your concerns are quickly resolved.

So Reba is Atypical? What hormones were out of range? Are you going to try Dr. Oliver's recommendations? I truly hope that all goes well!

Hugs,

Jeanne and Kiska

[Gooch]

Natalie-
Hieromai pou se vlepo etho!

I posted a while back and will post again soon about Olive. Its frantic here these days... its good to be here :-)

Denise, I saw you posted to CCAC- hope you get some answers. Its been busy there and Heidi is in hospice mode again. I hear great things about the implants-dermatonin but they have a shelf (or should I say skin) life of about three months or so.

x
E

[Denise]

Hi all!

Nice to see you Eliza! How is Olive doing??

Reba was elevated on all hormones BUT androstenedione.

We will start Lysodren on Sat. with a stim middle to late week.

I'm going to continue melatonin. Endo vet said it was OK and it has seemed to help her ravenous appetite, she isn't cleaning her bowl and looking at everyone else's food!

I'll check later as to the implant.

I know Heidi is busy, she's alway got one aged dog with problems it seems. I talked to her last week.

The paper from Un. of Tn. didn't have anything as far as recommended treatment like I got with Bogie's report. Just the page listing all the possible treatments. I should call them!

Bogie is still not eating like he was and I got to thinking, I started him on melatonin when I started Reba and am now wondering if it's effected HIS appetite so I stopped his yesterday and we will see if that helps.

I'm taking Bubba (the fibrosarcoma cat) to the holistic vet in the morning and will take Reba's paperwork with me too and see what he says about her.

Thanks all, it's nice to have the support of others!

[eyelostit]

I hope Bogie is doing better today, hope all goes well:)

[k9diabetes]

Heh, now I'll have to look up how to say thank you!...
σας ευχαριστούμε
At least that's what babelfish says!

I was playing around with translating some Cyrillic characters into English last night... a little genealogy work with a map of the Ukraine. I was so excited when I found one I'd translated and could actually identify it on a map!

Denise, hope you've caught up on your sleep and all the critters are feeling better. It sure would be nice if Bogie's issue was just the melatonin.

Natalie


Natalie-
Hieromai pou se vlepo etho!

I posted a while back and will post again soon about Olive. Its frantic here these days... its good to be here :-)

[Denise]

Bogie ate pretty good this morning and tonight he ate his whole bowl!

Thing is, he wants kibble. So, insulin dosing has been fun and I've had to poke his lip a lot but we are figuring it out. Before he was on grain free home made his bg always shot up fast after meals and that's what he's doing on the kibble so I'm using just 1/2 unit of R and it seems to do the trick.

Sometimes I wonder if they know what they need better than we do so I'm letting him eat the kibble (maybe it will help with his other issues too) and will just observe him. He's acted great today, lots of energy and demanding attention.

I need him to straighten up so I can focus on Reba and Bubba!

[k9diabetes]

Cool! I hope it's that simple. Heaven knows that's been the case with Chris more than once... a simple change that seemed harmless enough, like switching from WD to Science Diet Lite.

I'm hoping for the results of Chris' DNA test this coming week - the blood test that covers 130 breeds. I see it also gives an indication of how much of each breed is in there to give an idea of what the strongest breed contributors are.

Natalie

[Denise]

When Bogie was dx'ed I was told by other schnauzer people that Bogie wasn't normal cause he was being a picly eater. Well, he is so much worse now than then. He is driving me crazy!

One day kibble is good, the next day he walks away from it. Have canned Merrick so one meal he scarfs that down only to try to bury it the next meal. Tonight it was kibble again. I have Merrick Before Grain, Flint River and Merrick Turducken. One is OK one day but not the next. I've been trying to use the low glycemic canned varieties but every day is a pain in the you-know-what.

His bg this morning was 500 and he didn't want to eat. Finally got some chicken breast in him and a couple whole grain treats but then wasn't sure how much insulin he'd need. Worked OK, he was 206 tonight and ate kibble with no fuss but who know what morning will bring.

Had him to the vet today, he has a UTI, visable blood clued me in. Never seen this before. He is hard to read as far as how he feels. I'm hoping the meds will clear it up (they are growing a culture but started him on Orbax) and then he is to have a dental in 10 days and between those 2 things I hope his appetite comes back and his bg gets better.

I never know what variable is throwing things off, infection, bad teeth, cushings, dead insulin, rebound... (I threw 1/2 a bottle out cause was getting such crappy numbers from both dogs)

Struggle struggle struggle! With Reba and Bubba's issues I just don't need a picky diabetic!!!

[eyelostit]

Gets frustrating doesn't it, hang in there, sending a little hug your way. :)

[k9diabetes]

There's some sort of organized hunger strike going on here!!

Bogie, Ricky, and Montana - all turning up their noses at their food!

This always scares me cuz the only time this has happened to Chris was when his heart and kidneys were out of whack.

But I hope in this case it's just a bit of spring fever. Seems like this happens every now and then.

Maybe his teeth really hurt and that's making him fussy.

Natalie

[Denise]

Well, he ate this morning but it involved tossing kibble to him to get him started.

You know, sometimes I think it's a cognitive thing, he can seem so out of it once in awhile and other times I wonder about his eharing but then he hears me open the treat jar from the next room.

Both dogs were high yesterday, tossed the old insulin (about 1/3 left) and this morning with new insulin they were both under 150.

I hate these things that happen that we NEVER figure out exactly what's going on!!!!

Feel like screaming this morning!

[k9diabetes]

Hi Denise,

We experience some of the same thing with Chris. It looks like a hearing problem but then sometimes it's obvious he can hear.

My sense from Chris is that it's a measure of how much Chris is "attending" to what's going on around him.

As he's aged so much this past year and has more health problems, he just kind of checks out and it takes a lot to bring him back to paying attention to what's around him.

I'm sure it has a lot to do with not feeling all that great... or maybe it's just old age and he just doesn't care that much about what's going on. Sometimes when we come home, he doesn't notice. But when we go and interact with him, he gets excited and wags his tail.

I'm sorry you feel like screaming... I know exactly what you mean.

Natalie

[Denise]

Bogie's eating/not eating is still driving me nuts! Tonight he ate well, some kibble and some canned but this morning he wouldn't eat anything but cottage cheese so I had to offer bisquits! At fasting this morning he was HI and tonight 120. I can't figure out how much insulin to give and he needs to eat, he is getting that sunk in look behind the rib cage.

I'm going to have to offer small amounts of different foods that I've calculated the calories on and offer a bit more and a bit more and hope I can figure out calories. If I offer cottage cheese he might eat it one day but not the next. Same for green beans and broccoli. One flavor of Merrick canned is a hit one day and not touched the next.

He goes in Thursday for a dental, I know at least one tooth is loose, I saw it. Maybe that will help and then if nothing changes we are gonna have to do labs again. Just done a 4-6 weeks ago so not sure anything will have changed but I'm at a loss. If he weren't diabetic I know I could put a couple pounds on him easily.

He still has 5 days on his UTI meds and no blood is visable. Vet would have wanted him on antibiotics for a dental anyway so that's why it's scheduled during this round of meds.

I've cut back on supplements thinking it will simplify figuring out what is going on. If this continues after the dental and whatever else we check for then I'm going to have to have an ACTH done again (last one was March) and see if that could be the culprit and consider treating the Cushings again and if that's not the case then might have to consider another insulin. ???

I'm going to start another thread for Molly instead of adding about her here.

[We Hope]

Denise,

Do you think Bogie might do any better re: eating after all the antibiotics for everything are done? It might be that and the fact that his mouth may be bothering him, so between the dental work and the end of the antibiotics for that and the UTI, he could feel more interested in food when this is behind both of you--sure hope so!

[k9diabetes]

Checking in to see how Bogie did with his dental today!

I hope that will improve his interest in eating.

Natalie

[Denise]

Dental went well! I think we all worry, even about dentals, in our diabetics although I hate taking any of mine for any reason that includes leaving them. He just lost the one tooth that I knew he would, I am so happy there weren't more! He came home hungry and tired as usual, couldn't decide if he wanted to eat or crash but I got some canned food in him, a reduced insulin dose and then he ate a whole can at meal time and got another reduced shot. He came home and drained a water bowl so I knew this was going to be fun! Used a bit of R and at fasting he was 120, thank God!

He seems himself otherwise and his teeth look so nice!

I had them test his urine again and there is still infection (we had 3 days of meds left) and they gave me more. The culture came back, had grown nothing so they left him on the Orbax.

I'm beginning to wonder if dosing isn't the issue when our dogs aren't getting over infections. With all the new drugs I'm starting to wonder if they really KNOW dosing amounts when they put them out to the vets. (OR DO THEY WANT TO SELL US DOUBLE?)

Bubba was on Orbax after his tumor removal, my vet gave him one dose and when we went to ISU they wanted him on meds longer and gave him double the dose that my vet had him on. Bogie is on the dose Bubba was started on. Just wondering if they could dose higher cause it seems dogs aren't getting over infections in the normal 10-14 days of meds and in a diabetic maybe dosing should be different for UTI's since the sugar adds another dimension to the problem?

Even when I go to the doc and need meds I hate the new ones, I like old ones that I know have worked in the past!

Now to see if he will eat this morning and yes Kathy, I am hoping the UTI and the teeth are the reason for his appetite change cause otherwise I'm going to have to go back to home cooking to see if that will help and if it does, great, but I don't want to do all that if it's not going to make a difference!

He was 22.2 pounds, 22.5 last visit. I would really like to get at least 2 pounds on him somehow!

[k9diabetes]

Hi Denise,

I saw your post elsewhere about Bogie still having a UTI and high glucose and some socially frustrating urination... sent you an email but wanted to post a note to you here too. I think you said he's getting a full workup on Monday.

Natalie

[Denise]

Well, the Bogeman doesn't have stones, it's cancer. They aren't sure from ultrasound if it's prostate or bladder but it's spread to the groin lymph nodes and a spot in the lung (at least one). No real treatment available so he is on Peroxicam in hopes it might help with the tumors but also to help him be more comfortable.

Prognosis is 4-6 months in a dog that doesn't have other health issues so....just don't know. I DO know we will do all we can and he is a tough little bugger. We will beat the odds just like 7 years with diabetes!!!

Will speak with holistic vet about nutrition and I'm sure he has some magic supplements! Bubs is on some and is feeling great and that's what I want for Bogie, some quality time.

I was asked how he was doing. Well, he is walking like a dog that had 4 broken legs and just got the casts off. Small steps, trying not to put too much weight on any foot and limping. Stairs aren't good and no jumping into his favorite chair.

Keep us in your thoughts and prayers, OK???? Thanks!

[k9diabetes]

Denise,

I sent you an email.... am so sorry to hear that you're on a cancer road along with us. I swear some doctor or other has had a look at every organ in Chris' body in the past year and still here we are.

Will be keeping track of Bogie and how things are going. You know where to find me if you want to commiserate...

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Denise found a site that describes the symptoms of a dog with prostate cancer - it describes Bogie's symptoms pretty much exactly. So very useful list of signs to be aware of.

http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/oncology_prostatic_cancer.htm

[ladysmom06]

Denise,

So very sorry to hear about Bogie. I know you will do all you can for him. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs to you and Bogie.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

[bowens2]

My prays are with Chris and Bogie both as well as their mommys.

[Denise]

Thank you for your care and concern.

Nat, I've been sharing a list of signs with others since it's common UTI signs plus some odd ones you wouldn't connect on your own. 1 in 150 dogs will have prostate issues or cancer so......jeesh!

I guess I'm still a little numb. Cried a bit Thursday night when my brother called to ask about Bogie. I'm not much of a crier while there is a challenge to face but at some point it will get me. Having "a few" other pets keeps my mind going in different directions too. : )

He is dripping lots of blood, while disturbing to me and hard on my rugs and dog beds, the vet says this could happen off and on till the end so I ordered belly bands for him. It will help keep him drier too, he spends a lot of time cleaning himself up even after I've washed him up. The concern would be that the blood could cause infection and how would we know? So I will have to have urine checked here and there. I had asked about a cysto at ISU the other day, it wasn't done after cancer was seen because some kinds of cancer can "seed" themselves and they could have spread it with the needle.

Take care of your babies. Nat, I hope Chris and you are coping OK.

[eyelostit]

I'm so sorry for Bogie and you, I am at a loss of what to say, I feel so bad, I know you are taking good care of Bogie.

Our doggies are such a big part of our hearts.

I wish I could cheer you up, but with just losing my Chief its just hard, damn hard.

Your a good ole soul and we all love you and Bogie

[k9diabetes]

I hope the peroxicam is perking Bogie up. Glad you were able to solve the blood problem so you two can cuddle up close together.

Today my thing is to start crying after I hang up the phone talking to someone about this. I just don't even want to talk about it.

[BestBuddy]

Denise,
I hope that things are still improving for Bogie. Good work with the belly band idea, I'm sure Bogie likes to cuddle without leaving spots too. Wishing you many good days and Buddy wants Bogie to know that he doesn't like my singing (wailing) either.
Jenny & Buddy

[Denise]

Bogie is doing pretty well. At worst he is pretty lethargic and blah. He is stretching out to sleep though and when he doesn't feel well he usually curls up. I just wish I knew if he was in pain. He has always been so stoic. I think I could count on one hand how many times I've heard a yelp out of him in 12 years. He's tough!

Day before yesterday he barked at a truck with the rest of the dogs. Yesterday he was kind of blah and really didn't want attention (especially the singing) Today I went in the back yard with all of them and he barked at the neighbor and has been pretty alert and paying attention to things, responding to sounds etc.

Nat, I was reading about lung cancer (as Bogie has a spot there) and it said that a lung tumor can cause the adrenal gland to put out more cortisol. I'm wondering if I should have an ACTH test done to see if that could account for bad bg days or blah days. I guess I wouldn't treat him for high cortisol if I knew it anyway cause I wouldn't give him a chemo drug that he racted so badly to last time. So...guess I don't need to know but thought it was interesting.

He continues to eat well, actually in the kitchen waiting for me to plate the food. I just can't get down yet. Although I don't know how much time we have together I choose not to spend it grieving before he is actually gone. I get teary here and there but I am going to fight with him and love him up as much as possible each and every day. I also want to spend time with the others so that's my excuse for not cleaning my house! LOL

Take care all. Thanks for your thoughts, prayers and support!

[BestBuddy]

Denise,
I totally agree about not grieving now, enjoy the time you have. I know you have to share your time with the others but give Bogie and extra hug when they aren't looking.
Jenny & Buddy

[ladysmom06]

Hi Denise,

Glad to hear that Bogie is doing pretty well. Keeping you and him in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs to you and the gang.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

[k9diabetes]

It really is a great excuse for letting me and everything around me go.

[Denise]

It's just been 2 weeks since Bogie's diagnosis and it's not looking too good. He wasn't himself for a couple weeks prior to dx but it seems his back is hurting him. Thanks to Nat for suggesting pain meds and if they help then it IS a pain issue so am getting some Tramadol today. He can stay on the Piroxicam with this. I've always hated veterinary pain meds but at this point there is no reason to try and keep him off something I feel might cause further damage.

He is straining to poop so hard that his whole rear end quivers, he wears out and lays down. I've had him on fiber for ages and increased with this dx so I hope the pain meds don't add to the problem but help him not to have to strain so much and hurt.

I'm pretty much bummed this morning and yep, everything I need to do is not getting done. I need a few fairies to show up and clean this place while I sleep! : )

Bogie also didn't really want to eat much, I hand fed about half and then gave him a Whole Meal. It's doggie junk food but he won't refuse one and I give him the toy breed size and at least I know he ate and enjoyed it. Check these out if you can't get your dog to eat. Shaped like chewy bones with stuff in the middle. Too much grain in my opinion but sometimes you just have to get them to eat and at least these are supposed to be complete meals so I'm not also worrying about vitamins and minerals too.

Hugs to you and yours.

[Ricksma]

Denise....left a message on the other board, but if for some reason you don't read that one, I just want you to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and Bogie, and I know you wish a thousand times that you could take this from him...but you are with him, loving him, and sometimes that is all you can do.

Love and hugs, Teresa

[bowens2]

Poor little Boogie. I was checking in to see how Chris and him were fairing. I was hoping for better news on both of them. I have been thinking about them both.

[Denise]

Holistic vet gave him a treatment and some supplements, felt the prostate and didn't think it felt large enough o be interferring with his bowel movements.

The pain meds might be to much so I need to figure that out as far as timing and makebe even trying to half the dose.

It was a good day, he enjoyed being out and about and seeing some cute girl dogs!

We are going to try 3 more weekly treatments and see if I can tell it's helping or not.

[Denise]

Bad day today. Had to carry him outdoors and back in most of the day. The pain meds don't allow him to act like he is ever comfortable. I see him breathing from across the room and can't hear his heart because of his breath rate. He ate half this morning and no amount of coaxing was going to change that. I had to pill him because he wouldn't take the treat hiding the pill. He ate well tonght, thank God. DH laid on the floor with him, petting and watching him. I think he knows he needs to process this too, see what is going on.

I don't know what I'm thinking most of the time, my brain is a mess. He will NOT be the Bogie I know ever again. How long do I keep him with me just eating and laying around ? It's easy to talk about quality of life, so much harder to actually judge it.

[BestBuddy]

Denise,
It makes me so sad when I read that Bogie is not having a good day. I know you are suffering and there is not much any of us can do to help other than let you know we are here with you sending heartfelt prayers.
Jenny & Buddy

[acushdogsmom]

My thoughts and prayers are with you Denise, and with Bogie, your amazing little boy.

(((hugs)))

[Mickey'sMom]

Big Hugs to Denise and her Bogie.........

[Dollydog]

Big (((hugs))) and prayers from our house to yours...
Jo-Ann & Lady

[ladysmom06]

Hi Denise,

Sending prayers and hugs to you and Bogie.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

[Shaggydog]

How is Bogie today? I'm so sorry to hear you've both been having some extra tough days.

Best wishes to Bogie, you and your family.

Jackie and Oreo

[Denise]

Thanks everyone!

We camped out today, set everything up we could need, dogs had been fed and pottied and we played hospice in the livingroom. We got some lap time and floor time, lots of kisses, a few snacks. At one point there were 14 pets in the same room! Kind of a zoo!

Bogie's right front leg is concerning me. The x-rays showed nothing but it's still flipping backwards and tonight I remembered the tests for reflexes and pain response they did on another dog I used to have. I tickled his feet and could get him to jerk them away from me but not that front foot so I pinched between his toes and got no indication he could feel it. We are wondering if a splint might help.

So, we've settled in to this way of life right now. I'm not happy things have progressed this way but we are dealing with it. He needs to be carried out every couple hours, offered water then and in between and I make sure he changes positions every 2 hours too. My back is getting a work out!

This is how I may spend tomorrow too. Was nice not to feel I needed to do anything but spend time with the kids!

Thanks for asking about us.

[k9diabetes]

Just thinking about you all... Natalie

[eyelostit]

So sorry Bogie is having a bad time, and I know its so hard on you, glad you got together in the livingroom. It helps.

Take care

[bgdavis]

Denise,

I'm so sorry that Bogie is having a rough time of it. Have you gotten any opinions on what's causing the foot to turn over. When my little Eskie was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcomas, he started walking on the top of one back foot about 5 days after his first symptom, severe anemia, appeared. Okla. State Univ. x-rayed him 48 hours before he passed away and said there were blood clots on his spine causing the problem. By then he was turning over the paws on both back legs. I had made an appointment with a neurologist, but we never made it. We had to wrap his paws because he was still walking and tearing them up.

I know where you're at, questioning the quality of Bogie's life. Criss is slipping farther away from me and appears totally confused. The everyday things, like shaking 'paws', getting treats, and responding to me are getting rarer. Her vet said last Thursday that she had aged 20 people years in the last 6 months. I see no signs of severe pain (she's on Tramadol 2X a day) and still eats well. Heart, lungs, kidneys, liver have indicated no problems. I just wonder how it is to be so confused and anxious about the world.

Hugs to you and Bogie,
Bonnie and Crissy

[Denise]

I am in love with the vets I found!! I've never felt this good about a vet in my entire life! We had a great appt. One vet spent over and hour with us. I told him I know he can't fix Bogie but he is on the same page as we are as far as what we CAN do for him. He had an acupunture treatment and the other vet came in and did the chiro. Bogie worked up a couple barks for the Dr. Kneeland and it was music to my ears! LOL

They said that he has pain response in his right front leg but the motor response isn't working, the cancer effecting the spine has cut of the brain signal for that leg and his shoulder has lost lots of muscle. We are doing PT on him, extending that leg and massage. Why no other vet mentioned this, I don't know! Could have been doing it for 2 weeks or more!

Anyway, these vets love animals and they understand the "pets are kids with fur" thing and it's a great feeling!!!

I was wondering about when I had to let Bogie go, I don't know a vet that I wanted to use for that but now I do.

He goes back next Monday. They assured me that he isn't in pain, he is more "just not feeling great", tired and blah. I bet his brain is wondering what has happened to his body too. He saw a cat outside and he perked up, ears up and whined a bit like he knew what he was supposed to do but his body wasn't able to respond.

He is OK and I am better now too. Both of us more relaxed.

Bonnie, you and Crissy have my prayers. I know this is a stressful time. Watching and waiting aren't something I'm good at either.