Niki's story-- Final Chapter 1997-2010 [Archive] - Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum

eyelostit

03-24-2008, 09:01 PM

:)Niki is a 11 yr old border collie/aussie/heeler mix, 51 lbs
diag 5 yrs ago.

Novalin N NPH prev used Lily NPH 9 1/2 U 2 x day

Niki's insulin wears off at 8-10 hrs so most times I check her BG at this time.

Her BG will drop between 3-6 hrs

Her food is 1/2 C cooked ground turkey, 1 C raw chopped veg's (brocolli/green beans/celery) one of these veg's or a mixture, 1/3 Nutro Senior.

At present she needs a treat at 3-4 hrs so I give 1 teaspoon of veg's 1 Tablespoon of Turkey and 4 kibble sometimes I add a 1/4 teaspoon of pumpkin plain.

Her first signs of DB were urine leaking, or she would sit on the kitchen floor and I'd see all the p she was laying in, dr. had said she was not diabetic and it was urinary incontinence she was given Detrol, she continued with Dextrol, earlier symptoms i did not know were DB symptoms were her clanging of her water bowl she was telling me she wanted water, at the time I had 4 dogs and 2 large water bowls, she was 5 yrs at that time, then i noticed the nail polish smell breath this was when she was 6 yrs and we went to vet & she was diag with DB, Niki went blind 1 yr ago, she must have started going blind and adapted to it, as i never noticed it until she jumped up on something she thought was our porch.

ladysmom06

03-25-2008, 11:26 AM

Hi Niki's mom,

Your doing a great job with Niki. I didn't know that she has been diabetic for 5 yrs. Does Niki also have cushing's or am I confusing her with another dog? Hugs to you and Niki.

eyelostit

03-28-2008, 01:46 AM

This post is not for newly diagnoised pets, Niki has had diabetes for 5 yrs now, so I am used to her system, foods and insulin.

As I have tried and tried over the years with different foods, trying 3 shots a day etc. the 3 shots just made her BG go higher I did this 3 shots thing about a month ago.

So the past week what I have been doing, is mixing her meal of 1/2 Gr Turkey 3/4 veg 1/3 brown rice 1/3 Nutro Senior.

Then I only give her 1/2 of her food , set my timer for 30 min. to give shot. After shot, I set timer again for 30 min and give the rest of her food. She has had great readings, 146, 165, 135 I don't know how to act.

After 4-5 hrs I give about 5 pieces kibble or a teaspoon of veg's and very little rice.

With Niki usually before at fast she would be a 215 or even a 300, then i would feed, this just made the BG go higher, and the insulin was not kicking in till 2 hours. So this resulted in her leaking pee and I had to make sure to let her out after food and 1 hr after food At times when she was over 200 or 300 before meals I would give 1 unit and wait an hour to feed, then decrease her regular shot 1 unit, but i think this just messed things up when i should of gave her the regular dose even after giving the 1 unit 1 hour before food with a hi reading.

I can sort of understand when I went to the vet and she took her BG and it was over 300 it was about 5PM, she told me not to feed her and give her 1/2 her usual insulin if her BG was not down by 10-12 hrs.

Apparently Niki digests her food fast, the BG rises and stays at that level until the insulin kicks to open the cells so the carbs could get into her system. Just like in that "dogs diet and diseses" book where she mentions the horses are waiting at the gate, until that gate rises the horse cannot run, that was a good explaination for me to understand how insulin and food works.

So I am glad this is working so far, of course we may go for a tumble again, but long as she's happy and seems ok to me is all that matters.:)

I don't advise anyone with newly diagnoised pets to try feeding this way, you are still learning

eyelostit

03-28-2008, 02:15 AM

My other dog has cushings, I decided not to treat him, it was a hard decision, but he's been fine, 2 years with cushings, happy dog, he is 14 now and the arthritus is bothering him and i use the meloxicam tablets for that, which helps alot,

any others who use the meloxicam liquid called Metacam where you can only buy from the vet for $80.00 to $ 90.00, you can get an rx for the meloxicam tablets, the vet's don't like to tell you that, call your pharmacy and ask what 30 meloxicam tablets cost for a month supply you'll see what I mean.

eyelostit

05-07-2008, 01:35 AM

Past 7-10 days Niki going High, not doing anything different, tonite she was a 549 before food :eek:, after food drop to 401, then I gave her the normal 9.5 units.

She has been doing fine with readings of 134- 99-120 etc.

I thought maybe its the spring weather coming, so thinking its rebound I added 1 C veg to food instead of the 3/4 cup.

Still giving her teeny amt of broc, oat at the 2-4- hr intevals

Maybe I should not of increased the veg to 2 cups but that has only been past 2-3 feedings, but that should not of raised the BG that much.

I will keep checking, getting new bottle of insulin, tho i never had a bad bottle, if high again tommorrow, I'll do a curve and if bad, off to the vet, could it be the weather change?

Any advise appreciated :)

We Hope

05-07-2008, 08:00 AM

Dolly,

Think I'd start with a new vial of insulin. Not sure how long you've had the present one, but we got weak insulin from Lilly at one point after they announced their discontinuance of Iletin II Lente. The old vial that had lost enough potency to need to be replaced, was more potent than their new vial. We needed to use that old one to get Lucky back in line because Iletin had to be ordered. A test of the new vial's potency said it was only about 50% potent--legal low potency for insulin is 95%.

I'd look for a new vial that's not of the same batch/lot that you have now. This should mean that if it wasn't right from the drug company, or wasn't handled properly by the distributor on its way to your pharmacy, you'd be able to eliminate that possibility by getting a vial from a different lot/batch number.

Insulin passes through a number of "hands" before it gets into ours. There's at least one "middleman" (the distributor) between the pharmaceutical company and the pharmacy. If that middleman or middlemen didn't take proper care with it, it's surely possible that there could be problems; insulin doesn't always have visual signs that there's something not right about it.

Also don't know if you've changed any meds or supplements for Niki lately. When we did some bg testing within 24 hours of Lucky taking his (in season) monthly heartworm med, we found it temporarily raised his bg's back into the blazing 500-600 range. This doesn't happen to all dogs with diabetes who take heartworm preventives, but it does happen with some and we found nothing about this in the med literature of any of the products on the market. (Our personal decision was to discontinue the medication, because Lucky's lifestyle meant he was more at risk from those high bg's each month than he was for getting heartworm.)

A while back at another board, someone posted the same periodic problem--her dog had periods of unexplained high bg's which would revert back to normal. The person had a relative who was a vet and he was at a loss for an explanation. I asked her if she was in an area where heartworm meds might be used and if she was using them--then told about Lucky's reaction. Sure enough, this dog was doing the same thing, as the unexplained high bg's were recorded after the monthly heartworm pill had been taken.

Niki may also have some allergies--it's spring and everything's coming back to life again. Those with allergies and diabetes might find that they raise their bg's.

Hope you'll let us know what you find out in your "detective work"! :)

eyelostit

05-11-2008, 11:59 PM

My Niki seems to be Ok again, whether it was weather change I don't know, I just think it happens once in awhile.

I adding more veg's decreased the oatmeal and some of the dogfood, with good results, i was still using the same insulin, so I think the insulin was ok.

I did get a new bottle on the weekend.

I am out of oats right now, so this week we'll go back to our normal cycle and see what happens, if so, and bg high will keep up with more veg's.

I was thinking about barley, as i had read it somewhere with receipes for dogs, maybe a husky breeder or on other board with homecooked, I'll have to check the carbs, I know oatmeal is what about 2 more carbs than brown rice.

Thanks for your input.:);)

k9diabetes

05-12-2008, 09:43 PM

I suspect this sort of thing does happen for no particular reason in a lot of dogs and we just catch it cuz we test. Chris' insulin needs are variable. Over the weekend he was on a small-dose jag and now he's on a higher dose. I was giving him as little as 6.5 units a few days ago. Now I've giving him 7.75 to get the same blood sugar levels. Normal for him would be somewhere in between that but I haven't had to go down to 6 unit increments in a long time.

eyelostit

05-12-2008, 11:32 PM

Shes been ok lately, in 100's, i added more veg and took away the oats and some of the dry.

am fast was 120 I fed full meal - i decided no treats (usual broc + bit of kibble)
pm fast 64 lowest reading i ever got.

gave her a teeny size like under the fingernail piece of bread and 1/2 her food, delayed injection by 10 minutes, then gave balance of food, seems she does good getting 1/2 of her meal, then shot, then balance of food 1 hr after 1st meal or 45 min later. Weird.

But she always got those highs before with DCO at 3 hrs, or the lows at 3 hrs etc.

This is a constant learning process.;)

eyelostit

05-14-2008, 01:21 AM

Need some help with food as to her going into kennel for a few days.

Niki's had good readings past 2 weeks or so with a big rise that came out of nowhere. Insulin 9 1/2 U 2 X

She was doing a 115-122 range, then I ran out of oats, so I increased her veg's to about 1 3/4 C

So she was eating
1/2 C turkey
1 1/2 C veg broc/gr beans chopped
1/3 Nutro lite

So now her bg comes down from the 122 to an evening fast of 64 this was with no treats as I wanted to see how this meal was going.

Evening meal increased the nutro lite to about 1/2 C. decreased insulin by 1/4 unit, at about 2-3 hrs past meal I gave about 2 canidae kibble and 4 nutro lite kibble.
AM fast 84

So ok, now its goin a little too low for my comfort.

So I feed same meal, give 8 kibble about 3 hrs later, but then I have to go out, come back give teeny chunk of broc and about 4 kibble, then i forgot i gave the 2nd treat and gave about 6 kibble. Fast pre evening meal 207, now that reading was my fault. Its just the damn timing and writing it down.

So I fed deceased veg to 3/4 C added 1/4 C oats along with the 1/2 C turkey and 1/3 C Nutro, gave shot, took BG 10 min after shot get a 384 that was expected, so up she goes 177 points . Now i know tommorrows fast should be about 120-150 could be less or more, the oats will matter,

I'll give a piece of broc and 2-3 kib at 3 hrs because she has that drop in 3-4 hrs. I don't want to see a 64 again.

So somehow I gotta figure this, if I add more veg taking away the oats
the BG goes lower to a 65-100 range.

Adding the oats and decreasing the veg will give me a 122-155 which I can live with.

So now we are going in the kennel next week, they feed AM and PM and he checks on the dogs in the afternoon, so I am assuming he feeds them around 8 am. and will give treats at noon, so what snack to give? I will not be there to give a snack at 3 hrs, or 6 hrs.

So I'm trying to figure out the meals to last thru this period of time, plus the snack without her going to low or too high.

I'll see what tommorrow reading brings, I just don't know if increasing her food the veg's or oats/kibble etc. will have any effect when she hits that low period of 2 1/2 to 3 hrs.

Apparently the increase in veg's is good, but if I am not gonna be around not so good.

No doubt I am overthinking and worried, maybe just decrease the insulin to 9 units while I'm gone? I think she will still do the drop at 2 1/2 hrs.

Now I guess what I need to do is gather up all my frozen food containers and put her turkey and veg in them freeze them, and make small cups or baggies for the dry food, what about the oatmeal if I freeze it? Make it with less water?

How do I figure on the treat?

I know in AM and PM she will start her little cry that she is hungry before meal.

Geez I feel bad i have to go away, its only for 4-5 days and I'll be calling the kennel, I just hate when I have to think about all of this.

I'm going to a doctor and it was alot easier when I thought i could drive down take Niki & food sleep in my SUV see doc and drive back home or stop at a motel 1/2 way.

But damn I need to get away for a few days too, I need to sleep in so bad :eek: need sanctuary!!

Please help me clear my befuddled mind!!!:confused:

Oh the last time she went to kennel she could see in 2005, and was on the Dry DCO with the 11-11 or the 14-9 units, back then she wasn't as regulated as now and didn't get any homecooked so now its more difficult.

Added the green arrow so you could see something was up.

We Hope

05-14-2008, 02:02 PM

Dolly,

I wish I knew what to tell you! After diabetes, I only had to board Lucky once because of moving, and he was boarded with his vet, where his regular schedule was kept just as it was at home.

Think you're going to need to have a talk with whoever's in charge at the kennel, because they might be able to provide at least some of the things Niki's used to getting at home, if they know about the need in advance. A lot of kennels have morning and afternoon/evening "treat breaks".

I'm pretty certain they won't be able to follow your schedule about giving Niki half her food, then the shot, and then the rest of her food 45 minutes-1 hour later, so you'll need to think about how she does when she gets all of her morning and evening meals, and then the insulin shots. You may well want to think about less insulin for safety's sake and your peace of mind; I would ask the kennel now what they do about taking bg readings--how many times daily they would do it.

Re: letting them possibly adjust her insulin dose while you're gone, I believe I'd tell them they need to contact Niki's vet for that.

Be sure and pack some source of sugar with some instructions for them as to what to do and how much to give just in case. My feeling on this would be that I'd rather send this along, hoping it's not needed, rather than to worry constantly that they might not have something right there on hand if it is.

You know, until I read your post, I never thought about freezing oatmeal! :D Why not try making it the way you always do, freezing that batch, then thawing it as a "test" to see if it's too watery or not once it's thawed?

Where is Martha Stewart when you need her? :p

ladysmom06

05-15-2008, 02:52 PM

Hi Dolly,

Sorry:(:(I don't have any advise for you but I'm hoping you can get it all sorted out before you go away. Hugs to you and Niki.

eyelostit

05-21-2008, 04:58 PM

Well I had it all figured out :rolleyes: saved my stouffer dinner etc, trays all ready for the turkey and broc to be cooked and/or frozen, my thought was the all at one time feeding was ok, but just had to add more dog food, if I liked it or not, too afraid of the lows, and no time to go back to all dry, just cannot do the all dry too many problems.

So after it was all figured out, and I could not go, other problems set in. Ah! so now maybe in the comming months I can work with her diet maybe adding more dry, she just digests the dry dog food so fast, it don't matter what kind it is.

We Hope

05-21-2008, 05:13 PM

Dolly,

Just think of it as something you know now for when you're able to go, and don't need to stress over again. :)

eyelostit

05-21-2008, 06:08 PM

What I do for my little princess, my baby girl...........:)

eyelostit

06-28-2008, 12:09 AM

:) Niki had great report from vet, her exam and shots, I had a blood draw done a CBC, vet called everything looked great, her BG was at 156 that was 4 hrs after food and shot, so that was a great relief especially after having to put Chief down.

k9diabetes

06-29-2008, 05:59 PM

Hi Dolly,

Somehow I missed this post the other day....

Congratulations to you and Niki!!!!!

That's beautiful blood sugar!!

Chris has been bouncing around sometimes and it drives me crazy!

So did you wind up not traveling after all?

Natalie

eyelostit

07-12-2008, 01:30 AM

No no traveling, had to have an endoscopy (exciting :mad:) and some other BS, I'm Ok, but now since my Chief is no longer here, maybe a short trip with Niki, I need it.

eyelostit

08-04-2008, 11:32 PM

Geez Niki had a low out of nowhere today, she was with me in the car but with these trips to the hospital and me being upset, I gave her 4 kibble after 4.5 hrs, then after an hour took her for walk to pee, I knew she was acting funny not eager to sniff around, and panting on way back to car. Gave her some more kibble, then we went to Mcdonalds I still knew she wasn't acting right so i gave her a teeny piece of regular cheeseburger with the ketchup and had her lick some of my vanilla cofffee, then a few more kibble, after a bit she seemed OK, got home about 1.5 hr later, took BG a 126 very odd, I have gone beyond the 4 hr treat, it was not that hot here today, mum was in car AC was on when I got out. After seeing the 126 gave a tablespoon of broc. and 5 kibble, took BG before food I think a 320, I knew it was gonna be up, maybe I should not have given the veg being they take longer to digest and last longer.

Oh you never know sometimes, a low comes around out of no where, well better a high tonite, anyway I decreased her evening units to 8.5 no doubt a high in AM

Maybe she knows Mum is sick, and I am sick with worrry, our doggies do that.

Debbie & Apollo

08-05-2008, 05:13 AM

Sorry you are not feeling well :(
I agree our babies have an inner 'mojo' about us!

How is Niki today? Don't ya wish they could just talk?

eyelostit

08-05-2008, 11:09 PM

ya i wish they could talk, she was high in am 300's, gave her 1/2 unit then fed after 1/2 hour and gave her the balance of 9 units, she was at 220 at 5 hrs, so i know shes going into the drop, comparing to last bg which was I think at 280, i was eating and gave her a teeny piece of brocolli, naturally she went up again.

I hate the lows, i've caught 2 so far in the past 6 yrs it's always scary even tho I know what to do. I just can't forget the day she went into shock 6 yrs ago.

No doubt Niki will be fine, its the mojo, she knows mum is sick and i am worrying, plus we lost her pal chief a month ago. Dogs have their patterns and don't like changes much.

take care

BestBuddy

08-06-2008, 01:17 AM

Niki what are you doing to mum?

Dolly,

It doesn't matter how well we know them it seems that they are always able to surprise us in some way. Good catch, hopefully Niki is back on track now.

Jenny & Buddy

ladysmom06

08-06-2008, 06:14 AM

Hi Dolly,

Sorry:( to hear that your not feeling well. How is Niki doing today? Hoping she's doing better. These pups of ours sure keep us on our toes and guessing. Hugs to you and her.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

eyelostit

08-10-2008, 11:03 PM

Been crazy lately, I am actually going out of my mind, with Niki's goin HI then the big drop, and with my mum getting admitted again past week, this has all been terrible, Mum went in for SIMPLE!!! Gallbladder surgery that turned into a nightmare, got discharged and then to ER then to doc and then admitted again, they found blockage to heart, anyway been rough, Niki's BG way out of control now, with me going to the hospital the food times have been off, feed at one time then next day have to leave earlier, decrease food and insulin, trying my best, maybe can get back on track this week, I think she misses mum and is wondering what the H is going on with me leaving, I've been taking her with me lately, its been cool here, but then again all the damn thunderstorms are not helping, tonite I had a 407, storm earlier, gave 1 unit in 1 hr she went down to 258, thats how fast the NPH works with her.

So I got the brown rice and started feeding my old turkey, rice and veg & little kibble diet to get her numbers down. I decreased her shot to 8 units being I had given her the 1 earlier, so I expect a high tommorrow, could be wrong.

Sometimes she just drops at 3hrs when I feed whole meal, maybe in a few days I can think about all of this, maybe when mum gets home her BG will get back to normal.

Just hoping life will get back to normal!!!!!!!!

BestBuddy

08-11-2008, 03:04 AM

Hi Dolly,

I hope things have settled down for you now and you mum is doing well. Poor Niki is probably feeling the stress so I hope that things settle down for you and she gets back on track.

Jenny & Buddy

Dollydog

08-11-2008, 07:35 AM

Good Morning,
I know I don't post much but I keep up with your thread. Sure am hoping that things settle down for all of you and Niki can get to feeling better.
Take care,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

Denise

08-12-2008, 09:01 AM

I'm sorry your mom and Nikki are having troubles. It's good they found your mom's issues though so they can deal with it! It's ahrd when we have more than one thing going on at the same time. With Bogie as he is I am so thankful the cush dog and the cancer cat are OK right now cause I think I'd explode trying to cope with more right now.

I always have family issues in the background to and that aggravates me!

Sending prayers and hugs!

We Hope

08-13-2008, 09:50 AM

Dolly,

With your Mom in the hospital and schedules going by the boards, I think you're doing a fabulous job for both of "your girls"! Once things get back to a normal routine/pattern once more, I believe you'll be able to get Niki's bg's back on the track you had them.

Consistency with diabetes can be the best buddy you have. There are times when it helps you "win the race" even when something else important isn't right. When we had the weak insulin, we had to go back to using a vial which we knew wasn't potent enough any more. It was, however, more potent than then brand new vial which was supposed to be its replacement.

Since all of this happened on a weekend and at that time, the pharmacy had to place on order for Lilly's pork Iletin, there was just no way to get a new vial ordered until Monday. I had another unopened one, but it was the same #$%# lot number as the one that was about 45-50% potent when just opened.

We did not raise Lucky's insulin dose because we had no idea just how much potency was in the old vial--only that it was more potent than the brand new one. So we had to stay at our usual routine and dose pattern; that old vial got him back in control before I was able to order a new vial on Monday.

Take it one step at a time--you'll get there for both your Mom and for Niki! :)

Kathy

eyelostit

08-16-2008, 12:56 AM

Well I think we're back in the ballgame.:D

Got a am fast and pm fast 234 and a 255, so thats more like it, she's back to regular dose now of 9 1/2 am and 9 pm with her snack at 4 hrs. :)

k9diabetes

08-24-2008, 07:46 PM

Sorry to be so slow in reading up on Niki's little wild ride this month. Glad to hear she stabilized. How's it going now?

Natalie

Ricksma

08-25-2008, 10:18 AM

I hope things are going more smoothly for you and Niki...and your mom. What a summer you have had!!! Now, for a little while anyway, you can breathe.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

eyelostit

08-27-2008, 10:53 PM

It'd be nice to maintain a BG of 180 which we know most likely never happens, she was doing great, fasting 185, then a 234 at nite.

Crept up to 325 this evening, who knows?

Ah we go along, tommorrow may be a 185 again could be a 255, as long as she seems OK and is not leaking she must be ok!

Oh, I wondered when Niki gets a high of 350-400 which is most likely rebound I would think she would leak some urine but she don't.

If she leaks any urine it usually is about 3 hrs after food but that does not happen much.

When its rebound should they leak urine?

We Hope

08-28-2008, 12:16 PM

Dolly,

I need to understand better what you mean when you say Niki leaks urine. There are a lot of problems which may not be directly connected to diabetes that may cause that--UTI's--incontinence issues--even epileptic seizures.

When you get into the bg ranges of 180 (renal threshold)

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Renal_threshold

and stay there for some time, the glucose goes into the urine.

http://images.wikia.com/petdiabetes/images/8/8e/Dm_006b.gif

Renal threshold: When the blood glucose level rises
over a certain level, it spills into the urine.

Then the polydipsia (drinking more water than normal):

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Polydipsia

and the polyuria (over-frequent urination) begin:

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Polyuria

It's possible to have frequent urination without any urine leakage.

Any highs, regardless what causes them can set this up--it's not an exclusive sign of rebound--just that the renal threshold has been crossed and the patient's stayed in that neighborhood for some time. Whether or not there's going to be more than normal urination depends on whether the bg's stay in the above renal threshold long enough to cause this to happen.

Kathy

eyelostit

08-30-2008, 03:07 AM

I guess what I am saying is when Niki was undiagnoised she would be laying in urine, at that time vet said she was not diabetc, given detrol.

So once in a great while, when she is going high from high BG she will leak urine a bit sometimes maybe an hour after food.

When she gets into the 300+ range she does not leak urine, so I guess I do not understand if she is at 300+ why isn't she leaking urine?

She is fine, pees ok, not excessive, no excessive water drinking.

I just wondered. She just had bloodwork done in June. all was well

We Hope

08-30-2008, 09:17 AM

Dolly,

It sounds like Niki's occasional leaking of urine might not be directly related to diabetes; she may have a slight incontinence problem. People get Detrol for this and other related bladder problems:

http://www.drugs.com/detrol.html

"Detrol reduces spasms of the bladder muscles.

"Detrol is used to treat overactive bladder with symptoms of urinary frequency, urgency, and incontinence."

Long before diabetes, Lucky developed a mysterious seizure problem which came on all of a sudden. He looked like he was having a stroke. "Grampa's" first question was whether he leaked urine--answer was no. We hospitalized him for testing and observation that weekend. Tests said there was no stroke and were inconclusive as to the seizure problem. He went on medication for the seizures, which disappeared about 9 months later just as strangely as they came. When Lucky had a seizure, he never wet at all.

Toodles, who doesn't have diabetes, but who has an absence seizure disorder, does it "by the book". When he had them, he'd look blank and urinate. Until that point, we believed he had a behavioral disorder; starting him on anti-seizure medication has done the world of good for this.

Kathy

eyelostit

09-04-2008, 12:51 AM

No she really don't need detrol, I guess her renal threshold is high for leaking urine. She does not drink excessive water.

eyelostit

09-04-2008, 12:54 AM

Niki am BG is fine, cannot get her regulated for PM fast, trying inceasing/decreasing food, increasing/decreasing insulin by 1/2 unit.

She can have a good 3 days with a am fast of 135, her broc treat & oat inbetween, and get a good 180 pm fast.

But lately we are just going higher, 250+, 325, can't figure out the treat, it like I am starting over again, her insulin kicks in fast as well as her food.

Will get into more detail hopefully tommorrow:confused:

Cara's Mom

09-04-2008, 12:59 PM

Hope Niki is doing OK!!

eyelostit

09-10-2008, 01:09 AM

I pray Niki and I are off our roller coaster ride now! Her BG was really out of wack, got a severe low awhile we were out and I knew something was wrong on the way back to the car, so thankfully I had some of my vanilla latte she could drink and some bun from my leftover hamburger, why she went low is beyond me, when we got home she was at 156 after sipping my latte and eating a piece of bun so I don't know how low she went during the walk, and it was not a long walk, and that was 3 hrs after shot, anyway the lows scare the H out of me ever since she went into shock years ago.

So for past 4 wks or so that low caused problems somehow, I had to give additional brown rice or oats, decreasing some of the food items/increasing, I felt like I was starting over !!

I think maybe now we are getting back on track, I have noticed by delaying her injection to 45 min after food seems to be working better, if she was at 325-400 pre meal at times when she is this high, I give 1/2 unit of insulin and wait 1/2 hr to 1 hr check BG, she will go down 50 pts/100 pts thats how fast the insulin kicks in at times. Like today she was at 168 1/2 hr after food, no am fast was done, so I waited the 45 min to give the shot. Her pm fast was 185 so that was good, i still waited 45 min to give the shot.

Ah I dunno, I guess we all go thru this at times, either get a too low or too high and I seem to get myself into a frenzy.:eek: Geez I was thinking of calling the vet to get the R insulin, but stopped myself, I didn't want to make myself more worried than I already was with another insulin, I mentioned it to the vet about a year ago, but she did not think it was a good idea to use the R or the N & R mix, geez using that woulda really complicated our past journey the last weeks.

Sometimes with these highs and lows and even after all these years it makes your upset, it takes a toll on ya, I feel bad at times for having to poke her, give the shots, remembering to make her food, etc etc, I get weary at times, but I guess we all do, my poor doggie, why!, Oh well enough of whining.

We Hope

09-10-2008, 06:34 AM

Dolly,

Over time, some people have found that they need to wait a bit with the insulin as you're now doing with Niki. Others have found they need to do the insulin shot first, before food.

Because what you're basically doing when you give insulin before food is "betting" that your dog will eat all of that meal without problems (vomiting), it's NOT something to do when you're new to diabetes. You need to get more experience before even thinking about something like that.

Everybody wants the food and insulin "race" to end with them both getting to the "finish" line at the same time. With Niki responding to the insulin so quickly, you need to have the food beat the insulin there so she doesn't get too low. With your 45 minute wait, you're still within the hour "window" for giving a shot after food.

I'm glad you didn't go further with the thought about R. With Niki using the intermediate-acting NPH so fast, just imagine how she might use the fast-acting R, since there's no suspension there at all to hold it back. :eek:

Everyone on insulin uses it differently. When you see the Time Activity Profiles that show when an insulin starts working, when it peaks and when it's leaving the body, those are averages.

Those averages are based on testing the pharma did on people without diabetes and people with it. Some of them had the insulin work faster for them, some had it work slower. Some had an early peak, some had a late one. It didn't last as long for some--while it lasted for others.

Rarely does anybody find his/her insulin works for him/her 100% like the Time Activity Profile shows; you learn how it works for you with enough experience.

Not much consolation probably, but people, even those who've had diabetes for years, sometimes get into the same kind of "doldrums" with themselves. ;)

Kathy

eyelostit

09-10-2008, 12:50 PM

LOL " doldrums" I haven't heard that expression for a long time:D i guess we all get them with our doggies.

Take care:)

k9diabetes

09-19-2008, 11:31 PM

Hi Dolly,

I saw your note on Pebbles' thread so came over to see how Niki is doing. Glad to hear you're getting back into good numbers again.

I know when Judy's Bud had a fairly severe hypoglycemic incident, it took him a good week to get back on track. It can just throw everything out of whack and only time and living with some higher than ideal BGs gets it back to where it belongs.

Niki sure is one who likes to mix things up and keep you guessing. Seems like she just takes a little blood sugar detour every now and then to see if you're still paying attention!

Natalie

Ricksma

09-20-2008, 06:38 AM

Hi Dolly!! I know what you mean about the ups and downs...even though Ricky has been doing really well for a several months, every once in a while, he will sling me a weird number for what seems like no reason. I guess it is just their way of keeping us on our toes. ;) There doesn't seem to be any way to predict when this stuff is going to happen...the best we can do is go with the flow and try not to stress TOO much. Ricky will settle back down without any interference from me, so I try to let his little body (with the help of his usual dose) sort it out. We are there with you, believe me.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

eyelostit

09-22-2008, 10:53 PM

Usually when i give Niki her snack at 3-4 hrs its a little turkey, brocolli and maybe 2-3 kibble.

So with the highs I've been getting and thinking that the brocolli takes longer to digest and no doubt the kibble, i just thought damn I am gonna try something different.

So I gave her 5 pieces of Kraft mac & Cheese and some brocolli, her BG was 225 tonight.

What I found out the other day, after I gave her the treat of broc, turkey and about 5 kibble after an hour or so I took her outside with me, she ate some grass, after about 1 hr to 1 1/2 hr we go inside and she throws up, naturally from the grass, her BG was at 298 after the throw up. It made me sick the site of the dogfood how large it gets inside their stomach, so the food must still be in her stomach 1 hr after eating.

I gave her a bit of broc 1/2 hr later to make sure she would hold it down, all was well it was the grass.

Ah will I ever understand it all...:rolleyes:

eyelostit

10-16-2008, 10:34 PM

I'm getting a little worried about Niki, she seems to be laying around more than usual, I took her temp yesterday it was ok, I'll do it again in awhile.

She is eating, her BG is stable not excessive high her fast was 250 tonite but we were out today had a walk and I always take some extra food with me, so that could be the cause of the 250.

She wanted to jump out of the car and walk and do her thing, jumped back in, but I noticed she was more laid back during the drive, usually when I make a stop she always gets up thinking she is going for another walk, but didn't do this.

I guess its no so bad, no throwing up, her poos look ok, but I guess I'm gonna have to take her to the vet, back in June for her check up all was good I even had the vet do a blood test and all was normal and the vet seemed really happy with her results and BG.

I guess I am getting a little more worried than i should, Niki is 11 now has had this DB for quite a while, she gets around fine, no arthritus yet, no cough like my other dog who had the heart trouble, she never really drank alot of water, but I am thinking she is drinking less water, she more or less drinks after eating, maybe I am just going nuts and she is depressed and misses Chief.

Anyway just wanted to let it out.

k9diabetes

10-16-2008, 10:46 PM

Dolly,

I sure hope it's just your imagination... that's always the best answer. But if it were me I would take her to the vet just in case it isn't. You will rest easier if you check it out.

If you can get some of the urinalysis strips that test for many different things, that might be worth doing just to see if it turns up anything too.

How has she been doing since Chief passed? I know you've been sad and it sounds like you both are feeling a bit blue.

Natalie

eyelostit

10-16-2008, 10:50 PM

yes i was thinking of those urine analysis strips, where can i buy them?

I guess we are a bit blue, how are you?

k9diabetes

10-16-2008, 10:56 PM

I used to order them online from places like Hocks.com but pharmacies may also carry them.

We are insane thanks to our new dog (http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317.

Didn't mean to wind up with a new dog so quickly. Decided Sunday we needed a dog around enough to start looking for one to adopt. First dog we looked at was basically just what we were looking for. Faxed an application Sunday night, met him Monday evening and took him home... and many many challenges since. Like the cats HATE him. He's energetic and barks at and chases them and they want no part of him. So lots of shuffling various animals from room to room.

But there's also been more laughing around here in the past two three days than in all the past three months combined. I'm totally smitten with him, even with the carpet cleaning and craziness.

Natalie

eyelostit

10-16-2008, 11:12 PM

What a cutie, i posted on that topic.

Debbie & Apollo

10-17-2008, 07:04 AM

good morning!

we get the Urine strips at the vet office.

I use DiaScreen 7 - it not only test for Ketones and glucose but it also test for Urobilinogen, bilrubin, protein, blood and ph.

Since Apollo has a few issues it's helpful to watch blood :D

Debbie & Apollo

Dollydog

10-27-2008, 08:32 AM

Hi Dolly,
I tried to send a PM but that wouldn't work so will post my message here. I just wanted to tell you how helpful your posts are to us. All your advice and messages really help with what goes on with Lady and me. I could even find Lansinoh in our drugstore to help with her dry nose!! (We live in the "sticks" so getting some things for Lady can be difficult and costly) And the tip about Vaseline if her bottom is bothering her ...a great help.
I've always held a special place for you in my heart since I first read the end of your posts at the other diabetes site...Dog is God spelled backward. And of course your name is special to me as I've called Lady "Dollydog" ever since she was a very wee pup!!
Thanks again for all your help and encouragement to the rest of us :D :D :D
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

eyelostit

10-28-2008, 09:20 PM

Aw geez, no need for thanks, we learn and learn, I'll send you my email address being I get to the boards maybe every other day, or daily all depends on life !!!:)

eyelostit

10-29-2008, 12:57 AM

Niki is starting to get a little arthritus. Using some meloxicam.

I have started to feed her some cooked barley, BG is not really going high from it, i have noticed how nicer her coat is from it, will post some BG figs after awhile on this diet.

eyelostit

10-30-2008, 06:29 PM

Niki goin to vet tommorrow, she just seems to be laying around too much, which she never does, started about 3 wks ago, i waited and thought maybe arthritus so I gave her a coated low dose asprin, seemed to be more normal that day, then let it go a day, she's laying around more, so i tried a little meloxicam, this did not seem to work as well as asprin as far as her mood, so if it was the stiff joints this should of helped her more than asprin. so I've been giving the coated asprin 1x day with her food adding a little yogurt to extra coat her stomach.

She is playing with her ball and we play, but she is not as active, but I just feel something is off key. Her BG is ok, no excessive hi's or low's.

Will post what the vet says.

Dollydog

10-30-2008, 08:24 PM

Hope you get some good answers tomorrow.
We're going to try some Tramadol with Lady after her teeth cleaning next week, just to see if she needs help with more pain medicine. She already has Metacam every day.
Will check back tomorrow, take care,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

Cara's Mom

10-30-2008, 08:43 PM

Allways go with your feelings......hope nothing serious. Good thoughts for tomorrow:)

k9diabetes

10-31-2008, 11:26 AM

Am anxious to hear about your vet visit Dolly... Natalie

eyelostit

11-02-2008, 07:35 PM

Well Niki got a good report,:) all appears to be well.

Her BG was 260 at vet which was OK being she had just ate 2 hrs before test, no ketones, what i did like was that AMYL was low, so that was good as far as her getting pancreaitis.

Took both the Glucopet Meter and the Reli on meter, meters were off 60 pts.less

I guess her homecooked diet helps with that, can I assume that is that correct?

Her blood pigment thing was high but the vet said not to worry about that cuz the other blood thing would show up if something was wrong with that.

Urine ph 9, white blood count fine, all the vet could suggest was maybe urinary infection but she doubted it because Niki is not leaking urine or had no other signs of that and mentioned she would give me an RX for antibiotic if I thought i wanted it, so I said no I did not believe she had a urinary infection.

So she told me i could continue with the 81 mg of asprin if if felt it was needed and could give 2 of the low dose asprin if needed, she knew i had the meloxicam pain meds, but seemed to approve of the asprin, i told her when I give Niki the coated asprin with her food I add some plain yogurt to coat her stomach some more.

She had the CBC complete profile and urine analysis

So I guess my Niki is starting to get the Arthritis, so the vet trip and the cost was well worth it, I feel better knowing all is OK.

I'd post her results but can't type it all, if I can fax to Nat or Wehope or do a scan and send it to ya let me know

eyelostit

11-02-2008, 07:43 PM

Her BG is good, have not done a curve. What I have noticed is over 2 weeks time is that her coat is more soft and shiny.

So I cut out the dogfood and added the Barley, Niki has lost weight she was at 51 lbs a year ago, and last visit to vet was 41 lbs now up to 44, so that makes me happy, i would like to add some more weight maybe get back to 51 lbs.

k9diabetes

11-02-2008, 08:32 PM

Congratulations on that great checkup!!

Strange that the Relion and the GlucoPet were both 60 points low. That suggests that the GlucoPet is not doing the job for you and Niki. I know you have had some questions about the strips occasionally - have you brought this large difference to Karen's attention? Because right now it seems you're paying extra for adjusted strips but not getting the benefit of them....

How did you do the comparison? Did you test Niki yourself and then the vet test later or did you work with the same blood the vet drew for lab analysis?

Natalie

eyelostit

11-02-2008, 08:44 PM

Compared the meters by taking blood from her tail at vet, against real blood draw, I never thought of asking to use the real drawn blood, being I usually use the tail blood, will do next time.

but like i had mentioned the Reli is ok if BG under 275-250, can't count on it otherwise. too much difference.

k9diabetes

11-02-2008, 08:50 PM

If your test and the vet's were very close together time-wise, I'd be concerned that GlucoPet is not reading accurately.

One thing you can do to account for the potential of vet stress driving up the BG during the visit / blood draw is to do a test on your meter just before the vet appointment and then immediately after it.

If the BG has been driven up by stress... say the GlucoPet was accurate that the BG was 200 but stress drove it up to 260 by the time the vet did his test... you checking with your meter after will catch that rise and you too should get the higher number.

If a GlucoPet reading immediately after the vet's blood draw is still a lot lower than the lab value, then the animal-adjusted coding is not working.

CarolW

11-02-2008, 09:48 PM

I"m keeping an eye on your remarks about the GlucoPet and the ReliOn meters and their readings, Dolly - and Natalie! (I'm using a OneTouch Ultra2 and the GlucoPet, but it will be a while before I can calibrate them properly at my vet's office.)

Dolly, congratulations on Niki's check-up! That's just wonderful! I think one would expect arthritis to continue to set in a bit more as a dog ages.

Glad Nike's weight is coming up again!

Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:47:55 PST

eyelostit

11-03-2008, 01:40 AM

Thanks Carol W

Nat, she had her blood draw and nails trimmed first, then about 15 min later we did the bg testing at her tail with the meters, usually by that time after food she should of been lower. Stress may have done it.

k9diabetes

11-03-2008, 10:09 AM

Could be the stress lowered her blood sugar, from 260 to 200. That is how it would be with Chris - his BG always dropped during vet visits and a nail trim would stress him greatly!

Unfortunately, because of the amount of time that passed and the stress and activity occurring in between, I don't think you can say much from this comparison about the accuracy of either meter.

eyelostit

11-04-2008, 12:57 AM

:) I just realized it today Niki is in her 7th year as a diabetic, as i was looking at my profile somewhere else i seen i joined the board in 2003 and realized Niki was diag in 2002. So I am proud of my little girl, and with going 6 mo to up to almost a year without it being diagnoised and a vet without sense giving me detrol for urinary incontinence I am so thankful Niki is still with me.

I would have never done it with out your advise Nat and a few others from back in 2003.

This has been a good week for Niki and me, we needed it.;)

bgdavis

11-04-2008, 06:39 AM

Happy Anniversary Niki!! Wonderful to hear you're still going strong after 7 years! Keep up the good work Mom!

Bonnie and Crissy

k9diabetes

11-04-2008, 10:07 AM

Happy Anniversary Niki!!! And congratulations to you Dolly in managing Niki so well! :)

Her diabetes is not the most straightforward version - she throws you a LOT of curves - and you have done a wonderful job with her!

I'm also very happy to hear that you are feeling better and having a good week. Hope there are more good weeks ahead.

Natalie

BestBuddy

11-04-2008, 01:53 PM

Dolly,
You have done an amazing job with Niki, congratulations on 7 years. That really is a big achievement.
Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

11-05-2008, 12:55 AM

Thanks you guys :)

eyelostit

11-13-2008, 12:58 AM

I have had good results with using cooked barley with Niki I think the extra carbs in it helps alot with her lows shes had in the past at 3-5 hrs after shot. We've been using the barley now for maybe a month, this is the barley that takes 45 min to cook not the quick cook kind.

I changed her insulin to 10 U am and 9 U pm i started this 4 days ago.

Her am fast was 142 and pm fast 164, those numbers look good but i have not done a curve yet, with these fasting numbers Niki will sorta do a mild wimper and I know she needs food, Niki seems to do best when BG is at 170 -225 at fasts, I'll see how it goes and most likely will up her treat a bit, in the past with a hypo we had a 225 at fast and maybe 4 hrs later she'll get a low of 70-90, thats just how Niki's body works :)

Her snack is about 1/2 teaspoon of barley, 1 Tablespoon of brocolli and 1 Tablespoon of turkey about 2 1/2-3 hrs after shot, at 4 1/2- 5 hrs I repeat this treat, or use 1/2 of a Purina Lite Snacker biscuit with 1 1/2 tablespoon of brocolli.

So I need to increase this treat a tiny bit.

eyelostit

11-14-2008, 11:56 AM

Niki needs to gain some weight, less fat at her scruff area,I am having some trouble with injections, I have the smaller syringes 31 gauge I just got from vet, seemed to work ok, but now Niki is getting upset, I went back to the 29 gauge, its like she is getting sensitive to injections, plus the fact she has lost about 6 lbs since last year, I've tried the plain fatted yogurt but this seems not to be the answer, is there a good fat I can use, she does get fish oil and flax seed oil every other day.

Oh maybe in time with feeding the barley now she'll gain some weight. I don't want to feed her alot of carbs which will just make BG matters go up & then more insulin will be needed and I'll have to worry about highs etc.

eyelostit

11-15-2008, 01:42 AM

Today she started what I thought was some anal gland expression in her stool, to be descriptive :eek: normal bowel followed by soft and a blob of slimey clear gel like stuff.

Then later tonight after meal a sorta firm diarreah, followed by some blood around what looked like a small piece of chicken I gave her. Temp was 101, no blood on the thermometer. BG was good today, no vomiting, eating everything else seems normal, playing etc.

Now she wanted out, and just a thin-thick like blood gel some maybe 2 Tablespoons at most, so I am watching her and I don''t think I can sleep.

The vet told me 2 wks ago she could take low dose coated asprin for her arthritus, she said even 2 tablets, but I was only giving 1, maybe every other day, to see how she is getting around, so the arthritus did improve.

Now I am assuming the asprin caused this and will quit using it, call the vet, I may call her later if this keeps up I don't care what time it is!!

She has not eaten anything different, unless she got ahold of something but she can't see and besides that she never seemed to look for food like Chief did.

Her bowels must be contracting so that she needs to go out and seems like its taking awhile like shes constipated then just these little bitty streams of the blood gel.

I'll look online for awhile, looking at the vet manual is hard to follow.

eyelostit

11-15-2008, 12:47 PM

Called Vet today, advised to give 2 Tablespoons of Kaopectate, I had Walmarts brand of Antidiarrhea liquid, and 3/4 c of her ground turkey and 1 C of regular white rice.

I go get the anti diarrhea bottle, look at it and its a brown glass bottle with clear liquid, I am used to diarrhea liquids being a creamy color, call vet back he sayd thats ok as long as the loperamide is in it.

So she did lick that up, sorbitol and sucrose in it.:confused:

Feed the white regular rice and turkey and gave 10 U of insulin. Did her poo, sloppy kinda stool, last thing out like a coated blood on something, thinking it was the little bits of chicken I used for threat, or 2nd thought maybe when my mom walked her she ate something, so i better go outside get this piece of stuff and rinse it off and see what it is.

Now vet said not to be concerned with BG right now, but the white rice had 35 gr of carb in 1/4 c so thats 140 gr carb, more than she ever eats. He said it may have been the coated asprin, maybe not.

So after the diarrhea liquid with the sucrose and sorbitol in it, and 1 cup of rice, I expected heavy panting and I am not seeing that, now I am worried about the insulin dose, but she would really need that for all those carbs.

So with the insulin and the rice, i will check her BG in 2 hrs, wouldn't the rice get absorbed fast and the insulin will keep working? So if low I will give more rice.

The vet said it was ok prev to give her the asprin for the arthritis, but now after this i guess i will stop the asprin and see how her arth. is. and then no doubt start on the meloxicam.

And always call the vet if this gets worse.

k9diabetes

11-15-2008, 01:19 PM

Aw the joys of working with poop issues... what did "it" turn out to be?

Gelatenous is mucus basically and comes from I think colon irritation more than stomach, but I am not sure about that. I remember mucous as being related to colitis. And I thought aspirin's effects were mainly in the stomach. But I'm really just winging it here.

One thing for sure - her system is irritated. If the blood is fresh red, then it's being scraped off somewhere. If the stomach was bleeding, I think it would be digested and dark... maybe scraped off "at the tail end" heh...

Since she does well on Meloxicam, that's what I'd give for the arthritis... you're not giving both, are you?

Our vet's thing was always one or the other but not both and when we started giving a low-dose aspirin for anti-clotting there was a lot of concern about adding that on top of his Metacam. With the low dose, he did fine but they were very worried about it.

How does she seem to feel?

Natalie

eyelostit

11-15-2008, 01:28 PM

Cara's Mom

11-15-2008, 01:36 PM

Hi!, sorry you're having all those problems.......but could not help laughing!!!!!!Picturing you sifting through poo......LOL (and not finding what you're looking for):D:D:D

Good luck next time!

eyelostit

11-16-2008, 04:36 PM

I was surprised yesterday as the day went by with the dirreha med with the sucrose, sorbitol and some alcohol in it did not raise BG, plus feeding all white rice and turkey, we did 2 readings yesterday one I think was a 210 and pm fast a 264, lots of gas (ugh). but today am was a 410, still feeding the rice, did not give the dirreha med today, no poo yet, some gas today (ugh)

Did not take a reading yet today, she went thru hell yesterday that med was zonking her out abit, , feed 3/4 c turkey and 3/4 c rice gave 9.5 units today, figure the carbs are 105 gr. way more than normal, but i think the rice would get digested fast raising BG, so I am expecting a drop, so giving a teeny bit of rice and turkey 2-3 times a day, I just don't want her to go low, and i don't want to do BG till later this evening.

She was playing earlier today, but i can tell she is not quite herself. Hoping for a better poo, maybe later :)

eyelostit

11-17-2008, 02:01 AM

Finally a poo, a late one at 11:00 pm it was little, but it was soft normal shaped one, here's hoping to a firmer one tommorrow.:D

No Blood!!:)

Cara's Mom

11-17-2008, 07:49 AM

Good news!!

k9diabetes

11-17-2008, 09:00 AM

Good "move" Niki!!! :)

eyelostit

11-17-2008, 06:46 PM

Niki still not getting a normal poo, no blood, thats good, I gave her 1/4 c of her veg's last nite, today I know was rebound 450 mid day, that white rice is getting digested fast and the insulin is still working.

So I expect BG to be high at fast tonite.

Thinking back I started to give her those Purina Lite snackers, this could have lead up to the problem, the vet said the bright red blood comes from the intestines not the stomach, so maybe its those treats. course she may have eaten something outside.

Well time will tell, she's getting her regular meal tonite.

k9diabetes

11-18-2008, 03:26 PM

Any time Chris had colitis, we were asked to keep him on a bland diet - usually chicken, rice, and cottage cheese - until things got "formed" again.

Might check with the vet about eliminating treats, vegies, etc. until she's back to normal. Cottage cheese could replace some rice (if she can/will eat it) and cause less of a blood glucose rise.

eyelostit

11-19-2008, 07:12 PM

Niki is now back to a normal poo, but her BG is high.

I expected this after the food change and med from the vet for the poo's.

The white rice with no veggies didn't help BG after 2nd day.

she was high this morning 350 hopefully tonite will have a good fast.

eyelostit

11-20-2008, 06:13 PM

I'm having a hard time now giving Niki her shots, she schrunges her head down, or when I insert the needle just a little she will do it also, so she has to lay down, and still sometimes i have to do 2 spots she will cry a little.

I got the 31 gauge from the vet, seemed to be fine 1st few injections then same thing, so it does not matter if i use the 31 or the 29. She did lose about 6 lbs over the past year, and I have to get some weight on her, i do give plain fatted yogurt with one meal, but it did not seem to make her gain any weight, so what can I give her to gain some weight?

I am cooking her turkey now and coated the dish with a little cooking oil.

Niki really does not have any fat on her.

BestBuddy

11-20-2008, 06:30 PM

Hi Dolly,
I can't help much because Buddy is a bit on the thin side too. I can only inject Buddy on the neck and there isn't much room to move the injections around on his scrawny neck. The trouble with adding stuff to make them gain weight will mess with the insulin too.
I'll be watching for suggestions for Niki and maybe using them on Bud too.
Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

11-20-2008, 07:01 PM

LOL its a shame i cannot give her a donut everyday,:D the yogurt has a teeny amt of sugars in it for the amount I give her.

I even wish I could give her a tablespoon of melted down lard, but I know that is not good.

I use her scruff too, today i was feeling her thighs and sides trying to figure a new shot area, but her neck is where the fat is.

We Hope

11-20-2008, 07:48 PM

OK, I'm gonna go at this in "reverse" hoping to get somewhere. :)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/insulin-and-weight-gain/DA00139

"What's the connection between insulin and weight gain?

"Weight gain is a common side effect for people who take insulin. The more insulin you use to control your blood sugar level, the more glucose that gets into your cells and the less glucose that's wasted in your urine. Glucose that your cells don't use accumulates as fat. If you continue to eat as you did before, you'll likely gain weight when you start taking insulin.

"Think about it this way: Before you start taking insulin, you may be able to eat more food than you need without gaining weight because your body doesn't use the food properly. But when you start taking insulin, all bets are off. When your body uses food properly, you may need less food than you think."

Maybe we can "back into" this by looking at the advice for weight loss, and that's eating less. If we reverse that, eating more should mean weight gain because the diabetes is in control.

What about increasing Niki's portion(s) of the diet you feed now? True, you might need to increase insulin to make sure the food is "handled" properly, but there are some good points to thinking about this.

You can't "carb" her up with starches because that's a potential diabetes problem and you also don't want to get into feeding a lot of fat, because that can mean things like pancreatitis. What you're feeding now is good and sound--maybe just some "second helpings" of it.

Kathy

eyelostit

11-20-2008, 08:03 PM

I guess I can up her food by giving a 1/2 more, but then thinking of the insulin, i would assume from 9.5 units i would take her up to 10.5 or 11?

Debbie & Apollo

11-20-2008, 08:05 PM

OK Niki ....

You know what you need to relax.... be calm.... chill a bit.....
it will all be over in a flash.... you are very loved....

aahhh and maybe after you take your shot there will be a treat for you and maybe even one for Mom!

There have been a few times I have made Apollo cry --- I have to go back to basics.... Since I saw here that the needles are beleved I've been trying to watch for that... so far so good,

take care and best wishes

Debbie and Apollo

CarolW

11-20-2008, 08:32 PM

Hi Dolly,

I've put a great deal of thought, study and experimentation into making injections as painless as possible for Kumbi. He helps me, because he complains vocally when it hurts. If the injection doesn't actively hurt, but feels bad in some way, Kumbi shudders while I finish the injection. I consider that a situation that needs improvement, also.

Factors that affect pain include:

ANY air in the syringe that gets injected seems to cause pain. I use a magnifying glass, and really take my time to make sure all air bubbles are excluded (you know - flick the syringe with a finger, holding it needle-up - and I do this AFTER withdrawing the needle from the vial - wasting just a bit of insulin, because I draw up a bit more than I need).

I think it was Kathy who mentioned that Lucky couldn't stand fo have skin pinched up. But I pinch up skin on Kumbi, for every shot. He's used to it, and says it doesn't hurt. Being used to it is a major factor. Do you pinch up skin on Niki? I'm curious.

I actually pinch up skin into a single fold, parallel to the spine, as in the main picture on this page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/tentskin.php

That's Kwali, not Kumbi, but it was the best picture I had!

And it's apparently not what's meant by "tenting the skin," which, apparently, means pulling up the skin nto a kind of point, or summit!

SOMETIMES (not always), you can desensitize a dog to having skin pinched up.

The next factor would be the angle at which you insert the needle. I think it was Kathy who mentioned keeping the bevel up. I didn't find that necessary with Kumbi. Kathy's illustrations show her going into Lucky's side at practically a 90-degree angle.

This picture:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/placeneedle.php

shows more like a 45-degree angle. But I found that tends to make Kumbi hurt (!) Then I remembered I used to shoot more at a 90-degree angle, or nearly so, so I changed my angle again, to nearly 90-degrees - and SURE ENOUGH, the injections stopped hurting!

Finally, how are you warming the insulin? Do you have it really well above room temperature? I warm the filled syringe in my armpit for about 30 seconds, and when I'm through, the filled part of the syringe feels VERY distinctly warm to my fingers.

Of course, also, once you insert the needle, you need to hold everything steady so the needle doesn't wiggle around in the flesh while you press the plunger. And presing, you need to go at a moderate pace, not too fast, not too slow. Too fast, it probably feels like a bullet. Too slow, it probably just takes too long, and makes the dog want to wiggle, or something!

I found the instructions on the BD site quite useful.

http://www.bddiabetes.com/us/main.aspx?cat=1&id=394

But you've probably been there more than once! I can't really understand the pictures of pinching up skin in that series - can't really see what is being done, but it seems some people can!

So really, all I can suggest is that you experiment some. I agree, it's really tough when there's no fat at all, and maybe you need to use the scruff area till Niki puts on a little more weight.

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:29:24 (PST)

We Hope

11-20-2008, 09:10 PM

eyelostit

11-20-2008, 09:18 PM

I've been giving shots for into 7 yrs now, she needs to put on some weight no doubt

k9diabetes

11-20-2008, 11:04 PM

I'd increase the quantity of food substantially and see if she manages to put some weight on. Your proportions of additional food and insulin sound like a good place to start - I know you'll get them matched up with a few days or experimenting.

If she doesn't gain weight with a healthy increase in her food, then there may be another issue brewing that's causing her to lose weight.

Any possibility there's something on or under her skin that's causing her pain from the injection?

Where do you inject now - in the scruff?

I know you said she only likes one side but will she let you inject elsewhere on that side?

I considered whether handedness didn't play a part in Chris' preferring the injection on one side or the other. The angle is different when I switched so I think it felt different to him.

Could even just trying changing injection technique - different angle, different tent, face the opposite direction... still, I think the best bet is to inject somewhere else if you can.

Natalie

eyelostit

11-20-2008, 11:09 PM

I'll try again tommorrow, odd when you have to sit or stand or kneel or go down on the floor:o to get the other side, why she never liked that side i have no idea.

k9diabetes

11-20-2008, 11:12 PM

Another thought... if all fat is gone, maybe the needle is going too far and striking skin on the other side? Can you put the needle in just a little way and inject?

When does she show pain - when you just pierce the skin or when the needle is further in, or when you actually inject the insulin?

Ricksma

11-21-2008, 06:04 AM

I don't know if this is relevant to what is going on with Niki or not, but Ricky seems much more comfortable when I am injecting him on the left side of his neck....I am right-handed. I am inclined to think like Natalie that I must be a little awkward injecting on the right side, and it feels a little different to him. Gosh, I hope you get this figured out. I hate it when I don't feel really confident with a shot.

Love and hugs, Teresa

eyelostit

11-21-2008, 02:37 PM

She squirmers a bit when i get the needle in, when i inject she will cry and move and I have to do it again.

I use her right side scruff area, with her head left side against me. Thats hard to figure :D

eyelostit

11-23-2008, 10:59 PM

I'm trying to find info on Hematology, vet told me not to worry about these being High being WBC is Ok,

HGB
MCH
MCV
PLT

Only thing i could find online was elevated MCV could be B-12 defiecny.

Looked at the links and did search on canine hematogly but all i am getting is the lab test explained a bit and normal values, i want to know what makes these go up.

Any help appreciated, thanks dolly

We Hope

11-23-2008, 11:26 PM

http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/caninebloodwork.htm

Try this. ;)

Kathy

eyelostit

11-23-2008, 11:55 PM

Thats what I wanted, thanks again "Oh Wise One":)

eyelostit

11-24-2008, 01:05 AM

See if I understand this right.

HGB is high 24.4
MCH is high 37.23
MCV 72.8 is normal moving to high indicates to me needed B-12 folic acid
PLT 603 is high relates to HGB and MCH
WBC is normal heading to low 7.02
Ca Calcium 11.4 normal moving to high-- so i would not want more calcium? Is this calcium coming from fooed?

so from what I've read, to me it means some dehydration and lack of B-12 folic acid. So more water intake?

So per the vet these blood results are all OK cause WBC and HCT 47.6% is ok, and nothing indicates infection or other problems.
Her AMYL was good 351 in the low range so that means no pancreatis is indicated.

If calcium level is high, would that indicate magnesium is needed?

What are your thoughts?

k9diabetes

11-24-2008, 09:18 AM

Whether I worry about anything being high or low depends a lot on how high or low it is. Small variations are usually not a big deal and I don't worry about anything that's within the reference range even if it's on the high or low end of the reference range.

k9diabetes

11-24-2008, 09:19 AM

Any luck with the injections?

eyelostit

11-24-2008, 02:54 PM

Still having trouble with injections, I called the vet regarding that blood work I posted and told her about the injections, she said Niki's bloodwork was fine, i told her i looked up some of those results and if Niki was not intaking alot of water could that have to do with the sub q area, she said no and quit worrying, she said Niki is getting older and most likely tired of being injected, to give her a treat,when doing this, I've never had to give her a treat to do this, i just usually just say good girl and then she is playful.

The vet said sometimes their machines can be off with the blood etc separating and if i was worried to bring Niki in for a curve, so I already do that, she did not mention that anything could be wrong with her skin etc.

I also asked what to give for Niki to gain a few pounds and she said canned dog food that i could get there, but that would be the WD no doubt, that makes me think of trying Merricks canned again, but that seems to run up BG, ah, i just don't know what to do. At least the AML is low so i don't have to worry about pancretis.

I'm checking the possiblitys of why this is happening, I guess i am just going nuts and being overly concerned.:eek:

thanks

k9diabetes

11-24-2008, 05:05 PM

Why do you need different food? Why not just more of what she eats now?

BestBuddy

11-24-2008, 06:21 PM

I agree with Natalie, why not more of the same. I have always looked at adding something different to help with the weight loss but it just really makes more sense just to increase what you are already feeding. I'm sure Niki wouldn't say no.
Jenny & Buddy

Cara's Mom

11-24-2008, 06:37 PM

I second that motion :):) Keep her on same food, just little more of it!

eyelostit

11-24-2008, 07:59 PM

I guess you guys are right, I'll have to increase insulin tho, I think I'll just add some of the light dogfood into it, ah i do hate doing this (more insulin) its like her body never liked going over 10-11 units why that is i do not know.

I've been doing small curves on her past few days, she's running high no doubt steming from her dirrehea trouble 2 wks ago, she's back to getting some dogfood 1/4 cup and no more barley, oats or brown rice.

So after a bit, I'll increase the dogfood to maybe 1/3 C with the 3/4 C turkey 3/4 C green beans and 1/4 c of dogfood her BG should be down tonite before meal, i pray.

Ricksma

11-25-2008, 06:04 AM

Just hoping this diet tweaking works for Niki....it's always something, isn't it? lol....I am keeping positive thoughts, and hoping you can relax...and breathe.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

BestBuddy

11-25-2008, 09:57 PM

Hi Dolly,
I am a not when it comes to working out values for home cooked meals but I have found that because I am only using canned dog food that the following link helped me work out the amount I should be feeding Buddy. I know his Science Diet can works out to 94 k/cal per 100g and now the Pedigree Natural is 115 k/cal per 100g. There are two calculators on the link and I am about in the middle of the two with the amount of k/cals I feed Buddy. I hope this helps you out.

http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm

Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

11-30-2008, 04:37 AM

Thanks for the link Jen & Bud :)

eyelostit

11-30-2008, 04:45 AM

Niki doing better with her numbers, I've increased her insulin to 10-10 now, as far as injections, i remembered our old vet using the squeeze cheese when she gave injections.

So i bought a can of that, make Niki lay down, she eats that and i give shot, she still is cringing at times and tonite a little cry.

So I dunno, there are no marks on her skin etc, I was looking at the vet manual could not find a thing other than allergies and worse things.

Maybe its like the vet said, Niki is getting older now, I don't know, maybe she is getting damn tired of all these injections over the years and being poked for glucose numbers.

I have not been brave enough yet to try another injection site.

If this keeps up, we'll go to the vet.

eyelostit

12-01-2008, 02:05 AM

Well I am injecting above her rump area, I have had enough of trying to do the scruff, she seems to tolerate this better, just needs to get used to it. I don't want her to think i am hurting her.

I guess after having over 4000 injections Niki has made her point, geez I had to figure that out 365 X 2 =730 X yrs

Oh we'll see how it goes.:confused:

Debbie & Apollo

12-01-2008, 06:57 AM

Wow --- good job on the math -- just don't do that 'addition' to the Vet bill ;)

DH was cleaning out the file folder on Apollo and asked "do we need to keep all these old Vet receipts?" I was tempted to add them up -- then decided I really didn't need the shock :p

Debbie and Apollo

eyelostit

12-01-2008, 05:24 PM

LOL Debbie,
I still have the records of my 2 dogs who have passed one last yr one this year, I guess I am sentimental over there file folders, if that makes any sense, I guess I should get rid of them, I could not even type throw in the trash, made me feel bad.

I still have most of all my 7 dogs tags, licenses, rabies, vac's you name it. I was always going to make something out of them. Am I nuts or what?

I guess it just that you loved them so, you feel like you are throwing away part of them, or something like that.:)

Take care

eyelostit

12-01-2008, 05:33 PM

Well today I did the injection sorta above her rump had to do 3 areas she was wincing, even with the squeeze cheese, I don't think she is playing me cause when i was trying to inject in the scruff while she was laying down, she'd cry and do that roll over on her side.

So I'll keep at it, damn this is like starting over from year one, I have noticed her BG numbers have come down, so I don't think she was absorbing good from the scruff for awhile.

Vet has never heard of this problem, she said I can bring her in, for Xray or a skin scraping, but her skin looks fine, I have looked all over her, I don't think she has any type of allergy, when i touch or act like i am gonna inject she don't mind its when i put the needle in.

Even with these 31 gauge ones, so we'll get by best we can for time being, as long as her BG goes down thats all that matters and she's a happy dog and not scared of her mummy.:)

BestBuddy

12-01-2008, 11:58 PM

Good luck with the new injection site. I tried to move from Buddy's scruff to his hip area and although we did get better BG numbers I failed. He cried every time I injected him there so I ended up going back to the neck and try to move the injection site around although there is not much room to use.
Jenny & Buddy

eileen

12-02-2008, 06:39 AM

eyelostit

12-02-2008, 07:25 PM

Today did not go so well, Niki's BG is good, so tonight I'll try another spot.

I am familar with the injection sites, but when your dog has very little fat on its body it tends to be hard for injections.

Heres hoping for a better nite !!;)

We Hope

12-02-2008, 08:00 PM

Rotating the injection site is important, if only by an inch as scar tissue will develop and continuing to inject into the scar tissue will interfere with the absorbtion of the insulin. Also important to stay with the same approx. area at certain times, example:scruff in the a/m and rump in the p/m, this is because absorbtion can also be affected by the site of injection, such as faster absorbtion when injected over a muscle area such as the hip or rump, it gets pumped thru their systems faster than a more sedative area such as the scruff or sides. Having been diabetic for over 4 years now my Mildred has received close to 5,000 injections, adding to this number is the fact that she requires both R and N insulin so in actuality is getting 4 injections a day. Here is a helpful link for possible injection sites.

http://www.bddiabetes.com/us/main.aspx?cat=1&id=395

Eileen

You could be combining the R and NPH insulin in the same syringe and saving Mildred two shots a day. The instructions at the BD website are easy to follow and don't hurry you along.

http://www.bddiabetes.com/us/main.aspx?cat=1&id=258

Select drawing and mixing two insulins

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Combining_insulin#Clear_Before_Cloudy.2FFasted_Dra wn_First

"An easy way to remember which insulin is to be drawn first is "clear before cloudy", meaning that the first insulin to draw is always the short-acting clear one. Another memory help is the fastest-acting insulin is to be drawn first. The suspended cloudy one always goes last.

"The reason why you are to inject air equal to the unit dose into the cloudy insulin vial first and to draw insulin from it last, is to avoid the possibility of any cloudy insulin going into the short-acting insulin vial. Having this happen could alter the pharmacodynamic properties of the clear, short-acting one. This could "lengthen" the effects of the fast-acting insulin, causing it to behave differently."

Heres hoping for a better nite !!;)

I'll drink to that! Here's lookin' at you, kids! :D

Kathy

k9diabetes

12-02-2008, 10:10 PM

I hope things go better too... I remain concerned that there may be something behind the weight loss.

Are you using short needles or long?

Natalie

eyelostit

12-02-2008, 10:13 PM

Tried the short 31 5/16 and also my old 29.

eileen

12-03-2008, 01:36 PM

Thanks, I am aware that I can combine the R and N into the same syringe but prefer not to because I give the R about 30-60 minutes before the N. It would be helpful if I could, just doesn't work out that way. Eileen

eyelostit

12-03-2008, 10:44 PM

Not having a good time with these injections, tonights shot wasn't so bad, 2 places and no crying. Put in call to the vet, I wish I could find an answer why this is happening, I just feel we will go to the vet and nothing will be found, vet said she can do some more extensive blood work, but Niki ain't acting sick, shes eating, playing appears normal, no ketones etc.

I'll just have to hang in there.;)

CarolW

12-04-2008, 08:32 AM

Dolly - at what angle are you injecting? Try altering the angle.

But I wonder - how are you warming the insulin? When ready to inject, the insulin in the syringe should feel very DISTINCTLY warm to your fingers, in order not to hurt when injected.

I use a magnifying glass, to make SURE no air bubbles remain in the sringe, before injecting - air bubble (even tiny ones) hurt!

I know; I'm repeating myself - but did you check all these things?

Also, if Niki will remain still, you might try pinching up even a very narrow fold of skin, if you can get any up at all - and then placing the needle first, parallel to the fold. From there, experiment with angle. Looks as though the short needles would be good for this situation.

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:31:56 (PST)

We Hope

12-04-2008, 11:40 AM

Niki & Dolly-- Niki 44 lb Border Collie/Heeler Mix-part homecooked part dry food into her 7th yr as diabetic, 11yrs old She is Blind ** Dog is God spelled backwards**

After seven years of giving injections, I don't think Dolly's technique needs revisiting any more than I would venture that a person's with diabetes does. He/she has done this regularly and often enough not to make the mistakes someone who's new to this may.

A while back on the other board, we had someone who was having difficulty with her dog crying every time she gave an injection. We tried the ice cube trick, adding some extra time to how long to hold the ice cube to the skin to compensate for the thick fur. It worked.

http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/pumps/relatedproducts.htm

"Many pump users prefer to use a numbing cream before they insert an infusion set. Two common anesthetic creams are L.M.X.4 and EMLA. Holding an ice cube against the skin for several minutes can also numb the skin."

Regarding the use of a numbing cream, some people have used either Baby Anbesol or Baby OraJel on the skin a bit before giving the shot:

http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/tips.htm

"For extreme situations one owner reports that using an anesthetic like baby Orajel or Ambesol can help make injections more comfortable. She said she coated the needle with a bit of Orajel before the injection. I would rub a bit of Orajel on the skin a minute or so before you do the injection. This should numb the skin, and you aren't touching the needle."

It's doubtful that Dolly has any air bubbles in the injections as Niki's control is just fine--air bubbles take the place of insulin in the syringe and you're short-changed on your dose somewhat:

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/suppl_1/s112

ADA Position Statement

"Air bubbles themselves are not dangerous but can cause the injected dose to be decreased."

Dolly,

You might want to give the ice cube a try to see if that doesn't temporarily numb Niki's skin enough so there's no crying at shot time.

Kathy

k9diabetes

12-04-2008, 07:29 PM

My concern, vet-wise, about Niki is that she seems to be losing weight and her fat layer, presumably on an amount of food that has sustained her before. "Wasting" can come from many things and, unfortunately, they can be difficult to impossible to identify. But it might be worthwhile looking, if you can afford it, anyway.

Chris was losing muscle mass over his back and hips and I believe this was due to cancer. Not sure if you ever read about Chris' dog Zeke, who passed away, at an advanced age, early in 2007. He had been literally wasting away for a long time and they were never able to identify why. But it wasn't for a lack of eating.

Similarly, Gus was getting thin from IBD.

So something is melting Niki away, or at least it sounds like it to me from your description, and I suspect that this might be related to the new development of problems with injections.

If true, then numbing the skin may not help as it's possible that the discomfort is being generated at the subQ level or not even related to the skin or subQ at all!

Potential tests that come to my mind include:

-- Relatively inexpensive: comprehensive x-rays (that's how we found Chris' cancer)

-- More expensive: ultrasound

-- Fairly expensive: Texas A&M GI series, which can identify things like protein-losing enteropathy, IBD, etc.

It could be simply that something hurts and that's stressing Niki and making her highly sensitive to what used to be no big deal.

You'd have to go in knowing that you might spend a lot of money and not know any more about what's going on than you do now. Although you could undoubtedly rule out some things in the process.

Just seems to me that given all you have tried, we really can't lay the blame at injection technique or needle size or injection location - you have varied all of those things.

The fact that she's balking no matter how or where you inject leads me to believe something else is bothering Niki, whether in the skin or elsewhere in her body.

Is your vet really good?

We looked a long time for what was bothering Chris - bouts of rejecting his food, a general lack of energy... we found it only really by accident while looking for something else. He'd had an abdominal ultrasound, a cardiac ultrasound, blood work. It was the x-ray, when looking for fluid from CHF, that tipped us off to the cancer that had been lurking all along.

I'm NOT saying Niki has cancer... it could even be a little dementia or maybe she just misses Chief or senses that you are sad without Chief... but I think there is SOMETHING completely unrelated to the injection process behind this.

Natalie

eyelostit

12-04-2008, 11:22 PM

Talked to the vet, she said as long as Niki is acting normal, eating, drinking, playing, no redness etc on her skin, does not sound like a problem. She said she's never heard of any problems with the sub q area like this with injections, of course some dogs will cry a bit some don't, but with Niki always coming for her shot without me calling her for years now and then this starts. The vet and I went over all the hints for injections as we all here well know.

I did the ora gel tonight, did a fast shot, no complaints from Niki :), but we'll see how it goes, she mentioned I could bring her in if I wanted, so I figure blood work and xrays which is not a bad idea.

Remember those blood test results I posted? Thats why I was asking about them, tho the vet did say those lab values can be off with their machine.

I have noticed Niki does not drink alot of water, but that could be due to the homecooked diet plus she's getting older and is not running around as much. I've been adding water to her food now, this may make a difference.

Maybe I'd better check on some reasons for her not drinking as much water, and look back at her mini blood profile I had done earlier this year.

Oh I do like my vet, she works with me with managing the diabetes compared to that old vet who was mis informed on the subject, she does call me back, when I had Chief there years ago she freely admitted treating cushings with meds would be a first for her, I don't think many vets would admit to that, and with the cushings or further testing with diabetes I could go over to Ohio State or to Altoona. So I don't think she'd steer me wrong that way. But people like us on the board are determined to find the root of the problem, maybe I will find something online and most likely a vet visit next week

Thanks for all the advice.:)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

12-05-2008, 07:18 PM

Did you try the orajel again? Did it work a second time? I sure hope so!

eyelostit

12-06-2008, 04:04 AM

It does help some Soaphies mom, at least she's sitting for her shot now.

I am going to add some canned food to her diet, she needs a little more fat on her, so I expect a high tommorrow, I'm up late late, doing a curve, hope i can survive a few more hours.:)

Ricksma

12-06-2008, 06:54 AM

I don't really have any more suggestions, just wanted to let you know that we are thinking of you and Niki....I am so hoping that this is just a brief bump in the road, and it will all work out. Sometimes the injections can be a problem if your furbaby gets a painful one or two...Ricky was being hurt because of large gauge needles, and even after I switched to a smaller gauge, it took him a while to stop yipping and flinching. I'm also hoping that Niki will gain a little weight. Fingers crossed!!

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

eyelostit

12-06-2008, 11:17 AM

I think its because of weight loss, 6 lbs is alot for a dog, she lost this over about 6 months, maybe because summer she was more active.

We always gets these bumps in the road thrown at us.:)

Take care, thanks

BestBuddy

12-06-2008, 11:48 AM

Hi Dolly,

I hope the canned makes all the difference. It can take a while for the weight to come back on so you will have to be patient. Adding a little more food shouldn't mess with her BG too much but you will have to check and decide if the insulin goes up too.

Good luck
Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

12-08-2008, 03:54 PM

Well still having trouble with shots, I'm doing best i can, still did not go to vet, if she can't tell me anything other than the prev area is getting sensitive which i understand well as we all do, i have been injecting in other spots, i don't care if i have to do 2 spots as long as i get the insulin in her.

yesterday i was searching a bit online for info on skin issues and reading the merck vet manual, all the info says bumps or redness swelling, which niki has none.

With her losing weight, she had been eating 3/4 c turkey 3/4 c of gr bean, broc mix and 1/4 c nutro, doing 10 units i up ed units from 9.5 to 10 because of highs lately, still got highs in 300, i always have this trouble when i go past the 9.5 units

so i added 1/4 c canned iams and 1/4 c barley increasing insulin to 11 units, BIG trouble high bg at fast 400, no doubt my fault i gave a treat at 5 hrs past food.

so i did the iams at 1/8 c, 1 tablespoon of barley, 1 tablespoon of nutro along with the turkey and gr bean mix, gave 10 units, i am ready to take a reading now, trying to add some weight and now the insulin dose is gonna drive me crazy for awhile now.:o

I am just used to feeding her the same thing for years and now her body must be getting finicky as she is aging she'll be 12 next yr.

we'll be pluggin along for awhile

Ricksma

12-08-2008, 05:26 PM

I'm with you, Dolly...whatever it takes to get the insulin inside instead of outside...lol. Like I said before, this is only a bump in the road...of that I am sure. Niki is a trooper.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

k9diabetes

12-08-2008, 09:52 PM

I always hated when I had to make a food change... that whole period of trying to figure out how much to feed and how much insulin to give! And then whether they're gaining/losing weight.

Still, to get some weight on Niki, I'd up her quantity of food a lot... maybe 25-30%... maybe even 50% for a little while... to see if she is able to gain some back quickly. If she doesn't, then you might be looking at something like IBD.

We started Jack on 1.5 cups of Canidae kibble plus about 1/3 cup cottage cheese per meal and he gained a few pounds immediately - visibly within about two weeks.

Went down to 1 cup of kibble plus cottage cheese and he was still gaining a little weight very slowly. So Saturday I calculated the calories he was getting and cut it by about 15% (am also experimenting with some other foods) and we will see how he does with that - I'd like him to stay at his current weight or just slightly less.

Since he's "in training," he is still getting a lot of additional food when we practice or distract him. That should change eventually and he'll be able to have more of his calories from his meal.

I'm giving him so many different things right now that I had to make a list!

Canidae 1/2 cup = 234 calories
Cottage Cheese 1/4 cup = 45 calories
Canned food (trying Instinct now) 1/4 cup = about 70 calories
Orijen kibble 1/4 cup = 121 calories

Total is about 470. He was getting 560 per meal last week.

And I've been able to sub in the Orijen kibble for some of his not-so-healthy cookies as it's a little larger, plus cooked him some chicken as training treats.

k9diabetes

12-08-2008, 09:58 PM

And just to complicate things further...

You know, Chris always reacted to something he was allergice/sensitive to with essentially myalgia - his body hurt. I've spoken to someone I know who has the same experience. She says when she eats something with wheat in it, she can hardly walk the next day because she's so stiff and sore.

Any correlation between the beginning of this shot problem and a food or other change?

The barley is new, isn't it?

I'm pretty sure Chris had problems with barley and we avoided foods that contained it, sticking with rice only. He definitely had problems with NPH and with soy and the reaction was always the same - he could hardly walk.

Niki's reaction might be similar - it could be a generalized pain rather than the kind of stiffness and limping that Chris experienced.

This always surprised me as it was usually something that I didn't expect to bother him. But just as soon as we stopped giving him the offending substance, what looked like very severe arthritis disappeared.

So I'd look at anything at all that you've added to Niki's diets or medications - anything that goes "in" her and try eliminating it and see if it helps.

We discovered the soy problem because I switched Chris from WD to Science Diet Lite and the only ingredient different was soy.

eyelostit

12-08-2008, 11:20 PM

You know Nat you may be on to something, i started her on a little barley maybe over a month and 1/2 ago, i was getting hi bg so i quit using it.

Then a week later niki got the runs, but i think now that was from a lamb lung treat, what i thought was a chicken piece had to be the lamb lung treat when i looked at poo. the lamb lungs are crisp like a potatoe chip, she may have swallowed it whole.

But past 2 feedings added barley again, I will have to watch this now.

Could be it, thanks:)

eyelostit

12-09-2008, 02:16 AM

Niki was a 191 at fast, so that was good, being she was high in AM I increased food a bit, i don't want to see any lows in AM. Be nice if I got a 175-190, but things don't always go our way as you all know :rolleyes:

Gonna look up allergies in the Vet manual maybe i will find something, i know barley is in some of the dog foods.

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

12-09-2008, 07:35 AM

Soaphie is also allergic to barley.

eyelostit

12-10-2008, 12:34 AM

What happens when Soaphie eats barley?

eyelostit

12-10-2008, 12:38 AM

Started Niki with oatmeal today instead of barley maybe this why i am having trouble with injections, just don't know, i think she made of had barley in prev dry foods i have tried, maybe not

Anyway fast am was 240 and tonite 277 so i know it was a bit more as meters are usually off, should go down with the oatmeal, we'll give it a few days.:)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

12-10-2008, 07:49 AM

What happens when Soaphie eats barley?

"graphic"
Horrible licking of her butt and where she urinates. The obvious outcome is horrible redness and chapping and staining of the hair around it. Icky :(

Just realized she's allergic to green beans as well (just started trying this as a snack this week and it's not good - same issues as above....we will stick with tomatoes).

eyelostit

12-11-2008, 11:26 PM

Niki don't really get symptons like that, right now doing her rump, doing ok so far.:) sometimes have to do 2 spots, but she has to get the insulin in her. i quit the barely 2 days ago, don't know if this causes the injections problem :o

BestBuddy

12-14-2008, 12:11 PM

How is Niki?
What are the BG levels like with the food changes? I hope she is doing well.
Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

12-15-2008, 09:07 PM

Her BG has been good, last nite I had a 184 and on Sat got a 202. I have noticed her coat is shinier.

I quit the 2 T of oatmeal for 4 days. To see if that mattered but I didn't see a difference.

Probably end of week i will weigh her. Don't know when I will do a curve maybe on weekend or next week, can't plan it right now with holidays and all thats going on.

But she is doing well on that lil bit of Iams canned. I expected BG to go high, but I think most of the cans have more meat in them.

eyelostit

12-15-2008, 09:25 PM

I am so proud of Niki, we had a death in the family so we had to drive 3 hrs into city and stay for 4 days, I took along all her food, insulin, syringes etc.

It was my aunt who passed so we were staying with her son (my cousin), anyway he has 2 other brothers my other 2 cousins who would stop after the funeral home visit hours etc, now these are all men and Niki is not used to men being around alot, she is used to my cousin but not his brothers, I think dogs can really smell the family scents and know they are family.

But she was a real champ, especially in another enviroment, she had learned the house layout in a day, I could click my fingers at first so she'd know the way, she behaved great you would of thought she lived there.

When we left for funeral home visits she came with us, being we had 4 of us in the SUV I had to put up the back seats, so this meant I had to lift up Niki and put her in the back, (she is used to jumping in the back door), it was very cold first 2 days so after an hour in the funeral home I'd go out and check on her and put the heat on and sit for 20 min or so till the SUV heated up a bit.

I could have left her at my cousins house, but with her never really being left alone at a different place I decided she go with us.

We did 1 meal an hour before normal with other meals on time, I got 2 readings, and shots went OK. She was just great dealing with all the changes especially with her blindness, I had expected it to be rough a bit but it wasn't, no hiding etc.

She went up the cellar steps from the garage, I was holding her with a leash, and kept saying my one-one-one so she knows steps keep coming. I wasn't even going to try the going down them, but ya know she did attempt to go down about 5 of them when my cousin forgot and went down the cellar, he saw her and got her upstairs, so Niki must not have been afraid of going down the steps.

Niki just amazes me, all the blind dogs amaze me, how they do it and adapt is really a miracle, I just wanted to share it with you.

eyelostit

12-15-2008, 09:30 PM

Giving shots has been getting better, I have been doing rump area above her hips on the sides, sometimes its better using the 29 gauge needles, I think it has to do with the position of the needle, the smaller ones are harder to do the slant.

We have been getting a few pinches where i have to inject 2 times but as long as i get the insulin in is all that matters, I even think her reading are better, maybe not we are doing a food adjustment.:D

Cara's Mom

12-16-2008, 09:59 AM

Hello Dolly, sounds like you and Niki are doing great!!! So happy to hear that!
Hope she is putting on some weight!
Sorry about your aunt, but great to hear Niki adjusted so good the a different environment!
Keep up the good work:D

Ricksma

12-16-2008, 01:10 PM

Dolly, I am so happy to see that Niki is doing better...that is all we were praying for!!! Keep up the good work, and we will keep up the good thoughts.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

BestBuddy

12-16-2008, 03:47 PM

Dolly,
I know how pleased you must have been with Niki adapting so well to new people and places. She knew you were with her and wouldn't let anything bad happen so she had complete trust in you so you should be proud.
Jenny & Buddy

k9diabetes

12-16-2008, 03:50 PM

It's amazing how adaptable they are. I'm so happy to hear that Nik did well.

I'm pretty sure my entire family thought we were nuts when we took Chris 1,200 miles to attend my dad's funeral - how did your family take it?

If we had to leave Chris alone, we too left him in the car and checked on him periodically. He was still relatively healthy then and managed the motels just fine.

When we passed through part of the drive up there on our trip this September we were constantly thinking about Chris and remembering all the spots we pulled over for lunch and his meals, shivering in a cold March wind while we stirred up his canned food and cottage cheese and drew up his insulin in the back of the SUV.

I think half the stuff in the car on the trip to the funeral belonged to Chris - there was hardly room for a change of clothes for us! :)

Natalie

eyelostit

12-17-2008, 07:52 PM

Thanks all:)

Family did not mind Niki at all, I think she actually helped ease some of their pain.

Nat, I do the same thing, Niki seems to go with me everywhere now, if before mealtime or later etc, I have packed my turkey, veg's, some dogfood etc, i always carry an extra syringe in my purse, and take the insulin along with the meal if i have to feed her in the car, doing the shot in the SUV is kinda crazy climbing up in back making her sit or lay down and twisting my body every which way.:D

Plus at times I take a lil veg's and always have some dry food in the car, and my lil bottle of honey. I still gotta find one of those little pencil type syringe hickey things for syrup. Maybe I'll remember this week, I dread going shopping tommorrow, I was looking on the web, but have lost interest.:(

eyelostit

12-17-2008, 08:06 PM

We have a bout of diarrhea again, not as bad no blood, don't know where it came from, maybe from being away, so its back to the diarrhea med, rice and turkey. That was yesterday AM.

So as afternoon started I started getting dizzy (sinus) I knew i had to lay down.

So what to do about Niki :confused:, I sat and figured for awhile, so gave 1 C of rice and 1/2 C turkey and 2 units this was around 4:00 pm, she had ate at 10:30 am, I didn't feel there would be any problems, with all the rice in AM her 10 units, the 2 units again with rice etc. and with those 2 meals the diarrhea med, this is walmarts brand and it does have some alcohol in it and is sweet, but she did good last time on it.

Anyway I feel asleep soon as I fed her again, I slept thru for about 6 hrs, she woke me up 3 times to go out during the nite to go out. First it was sleet, then it was snow, and then it was rain.

I felt kinda guilty laying down, but I knew she was not gonna go low with all the rice and the syrupy med.

AM fast was 303 that was not bad, as I had expected the meter to say that dreaded HI, but it worked out, sometimes we get sick too, She still had the runs earlier today, but for past 7 hrs has not wanted out, so I hope for a semi poo. We gotta go shopping tommorrow, she gotta be better, i always give her a teeny piece of hamburger when we go thru the drivethru's and sometimes a treat in between.

Oh I just know you want the description of the poo, it has that gelatinious stuff in it, was runny earlier today, but will check next poo, should be in about 1 hr.:D

eyelostit

12-17-2008, 08:55 PM

Well we still got the runs, some little firm piles, her BG is sorta in 300's I used the Relion meter, cause the damn Glucopet gave me 2 errors, so that means take off 100 pts :mad:

Gave 1 unit of insulin, will feed her in about an hour and give the rice and turkey and balance of injection, her temp is normal.

That 1 unit will start in about an hour or hour 1/2 and take her down to 200, I just hate to feed, give that diarrhea med and food when she is running so high, it won't balance itself because of all the rice and diarrhea med. Hope all is well later on tonite or in AM:o

BestBuddy

12-17-2008, 10:34 PM

Dolly,
Maybe Niki is having a reaction to the trip away. I hope the poo situation improves soon. Considering all that she has going on her Bg's aren't too bad. Sending good thoughts your way.
Jenny & Buddy

k9diabetes

12-18-2008, 10:18 AM

Whenever we get diarrhea in one of the critters, I always withhold one or two meals (only one with the cats) and liimit water consumption somewhat. This seems to help get things back on track.

Then I start with a few small meals of the "diarrhea diet" - bland - baby food for the cat, cottage cheese and rice for the dog. Working back to normal meal sizes over a few days and staying with the bland diet until things get back into form.

Skipping the one or two meals seems to make a big difference.

k9diabetes

12-18-2008, 10:19 AM

Unfortunately for GlucoPet, they don't manufacture their own strips so they are at the mercy of the quality control measures of the company that does. You sure have had a lot of problems with those strips lately!

As I recall, at least in the 200s and 300s, your regular meters were not far off the GlucoPet.

eyelostit

12-18-2008, 10:02 PM

Niki still has the runs, I called the vet, today I bought the regular Kaopectate, with her previous bout of it about 3 wks ago, if you remember she had bloody gel in stool, but thats not the case this time, its dirrehea and gel, anyway looking at the vet manual the walmart brand of dirreaha med has Loperamide in it and it is a clear liquid, last time I asked the vet if this way ok, he said yes and it cleared up.

Looking in the vet manual the Loperamide can worsen things, (thats just great, I've been giving this to NIki past 2 1/2 days) so I got the regular Kaopectate now. Gave her 2 Tablespoons with some gr.turkey, it said to expect dark stools.

Now she's beeen eating rice and ground turkey, the prev med Loperamide had alcohol in it and it was sweet, vet prev said don't worry about high BG, the Kao has sucrose in it, I guess I cannot worry about BG right now.:confused:

So apparently the rice and turkey are not working, the rice is coming out in whole pieces, not all of it. I cooked it well.

So today I went out and bought Orijens Blue Bag 70% protein 30% carbs, so I am gonna add some of this to her rice and turkey and decrease a bit of the turkey being this is 70% meat. I don't think the dirrehea can get any worse.

I also got a bag of Iams sensitive stomach, but I see that has corn in it that has the shell off.

I guess I'll go with the Orijens Rice and Turkey.
BG is 351 I gave a unit about an hour ago.

I feel like I am insane today, took mum to doc, Had to take Niki with us, shopping. Just damn tired.:(

What are your thoughts?

k9diabetes

12-18-2008, 10:46 PM

Hi Dolly,

I think I would stick with the bland diet and talk to the vet about prescribing something like Flagyl.

The gelatenous stuff is mucus and that typically means colitis.

And I would skip a meal or two to give everything a rest. You can usually give 1/4 to 1/2 of the normal insulin dose without food. Go on the low side of that range if you've never done it before and then just monitor her.

It could definitely take a while for it to clear up. As long as she's hydrated, I don't think you need to panic. Chris has taken a few weeks to get back to firm stools after a bout with colitis. We did a round of flagyl and stayed with the bland diet until the diarrhea cleared up. We did not give any other medications or over-the-counter anti-diarrheic meds.

Will she eat cottage cheese? That always worked well for Chris and Jack is getting some daily as part of his food too. If you think the rice is not being digested well, you could skip it or put some potato in there instead.

Gus, our cat, had a BAD attack of colitis once when he was young - he put out huge pools of clear mucus (sorry for the gross description). Could be she's got a bug and it will clear up with a little time.

Is it that she's making a mess in the house or her fur?

It seems like this is stressing you out more than is warranted by a few days with diarrhea...

I have wondered, with the weight loss, if there is some loss of absorption or IBD going on with her that's leading to the weight loss.

Perhaps once you clear this up you could go with a novel diet... met someone today whose allergy prone dog eats only kangaroo meat!

Natalie

eyelostit

12-18-2008, 10:51 PM

No shes not doing her business in the house, just goes to the door, I know she is hungry, so you think maybe 1/2 meal and 8 units instead of 10, I am stressing as this has been a terrible week, I think i have some cottage cheese gotta look at the exp date.

Her BG still at 350 I don't think the 1 unit kicked in yet, Oh I'm just a wreck today, I will feed something rice turkey maybe a bit or orijen and give Kao in another hours.

Hate the thought of the vet if we get the sleet snow tommorrow. Thanks Nat:)

k9diabetes

12-18-2008, 11:01 PM

I think it will just take a while for the colitis to clear.

I really would skip a meal. I can't tell you why it works. I just know that it has helped numerous times and that it's recommended by my home vet book and my vet. And then small meals, can make them more frequent but don't load her up on food right away. Probably just gives everything a rest.

Has she gained any weight on a significantly larger portion prior to this episode?

Jack gained a couple of pounds in a week on lots of extra food.

Sounds like the one who needs some special care and treatment is you! I know you have a lot you're dealing with and with the travel and loss of your aunt and your mom's health... time to give Dolly what she needs - whatever that is... hot cocoa, a hot bath, "It's a Wonderful Life" DVD... whatever it is! :)

Promise you'll do something nice for yourself?

Natalie

eyelostit

12-18-2008, 11:05 PM

Hopefully if this clears up I will pack some gifts to ship and intend to sit down and watch my DVD's I never get to watch. Well guess I'll do a small meal and monitor her, if no luck I guess its vet time. I have not weighed her was gonna do that this weekend, so i guess thats screwed up for now

Thanks again Nat, its really appreciated.:) ;)

eyelostit

12-20-2008, 03:26 AM

I looked up the Loperamide in the Merck's vet manual, it had mentioned it will work but can also work against the intestine tract, that it was not the drug of choice, anyone can read this if they have the book and need to interpret it better.So now we are into the 3rd day of this, I call the vet, they say after 3 days they want to see any dog,

Anyway I went out and bought the Kaopectate gave this with lil rice and turkey, waited 4 hrs, finally a soft regular poo, gave her the Kao again in 4 hrs as vet had mentioned previously, I cut her rice and turkey down to 1/4 C and 1/4 C. I decrease her insulin also, as most vets mention to withold food, but with Niki and the diabetes the vet did not want me to do this, but he did not tell me to decrease the rice and turkey. So I went against what he said going with my own gut feelings.

So so far today no poo since last night, I guess thats understandable, she's more happy today. Now I have to be on poo duty till I see the next one, and geez its cold and icy here.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

I don't know what the brand name is for Loperamide but I would be hesitant to use it for diarrhea from going thru this with Niki.
So some of you members who use the Loperamide (Walmarts brand or the Brand Name) and the diarrhea don't stop to use the Kaopectate.

I think that Loperamide may have stopped the diarrhea for awhile, but then it came back in about a month.

Dollydog

12-23-2008, 06:47 AM

Hi Dolly,
Just wanted to say that I check in on your thread every day but haven't had anything to add that would be helpful. Hope things have settled down for you and Niki and that you both can enjoy the season.
We're getting ready for a big road trip here....leaving for Nevada on the 26th to find new renters, or even a buyer, for our house there. The best part is that Lady gets to see her vet team there....they're only 8 minutes from our house and just awesome people. I'm hoping that we all can get a good look at her condition and get better control of her diabetes.
You're doing a fantastic job with Niki and are such a great educator for the rest of us trying to handle this disease.

Oh...just remembered what our young vet here said to me one day...I wondered if Lady was in a lot of discomfort as she didn't like being brushed or cared for, even more than normal. He said that was a characteristic of senior dogs! I was thinking of his comment when reading how much Niki was fussing over her injections.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year....will be checking on you from the road as we have our laptop with us.
(((Hugs)))
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

eyelostit

12-23-2008, 08:52 PM

Jo Ann that makes sense, I talked to the vet today, she said same thing, Niki doing better but after Xmas we're goin to the vet.

eyelostit

12-26-2008, 04:37 PM

Niki is doing better now, with all that has happened before and during the holiday rush and with Niki had me out of my mind, last week or prev week I bought a bag of Orijen, started adding that to her food, she has normal poo's now but the Kaopectate helped with that, I think the Walmarts brand of anti diarrhea liquid may have helped with the first bout of the runs, but I think whatever was in her system really did not go away, the runs returned a few weeks ago, did the Kao, no more runs, I have changed her diet a bit and vet has her on Amoxcillin for awhile,Niki's temp was fine 100.4, she seems alot happier. I hope this does not happen again, maybe it was something in a particular batch of food don't matter what brand or where they get their ingredients from, who knows anymore? Vet has said as they get older and from so many injections this can happen.
So far so good with the Orijen-some turkey-lil rice and teeny bit of Eukenuba Senstive Stomach, although her stomach is not upset this is for digestive tract also, so I am not feeding veg's in the meantime, I will most likely go back to adding veg's but just have to wait to make sure the diarrhea doesn't return.

Giving shots above thigh, sometimes it works, sometimes I have to inject 2X, must get the insulin in her.

I am going back to the 29 gauge needles the smaller ones she don't like, I think its the force of the injection coming out of the smaller needle, i could be wrong, but with the 29 needle I can get it under her skin easier, if it hurts her with the smaller needle and I pull out I lose more insulin with that smaller needle.

I guess we'll see how it goes next few days. ;)

k9diabetes

12-26-2008, 05:44 PM

I'm glad to hear that things are improving!! It's too bad that sometimes the holidays just mean a lot more stress.

Natalie

Ricksma

12-27-2008, 05:27 AM

Really glad to hear that Niki is improving. Sometimes the holidays make me sick, too...lol...so I can relate. Maybe things will just smooth out now that life can return to "normal"...

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

Dollydog

12-27-2008, 07:53 PM

Good to hear that Niki's improving and things are going smoother! I only tried the 30 gauge for a few shots and stopped when the needle was bent by Lady moving :eek:
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

eyelostit

12-28-2008, 07:13 PM

Niki not feeling so well :(, could be the amoxcillin, she is eating and doing normal #2's for awhile now.

I was testing urine with those chem strips, I think they cause more worry, yesterday PH was 5 (orange) today it is 7 (green), have a call in to vet for appt tommorrow, Niki is just laying around alot, those chem strips showed a trace of blood in urine, the gravity is 1.015 (green) yesterday it was 1.025(orange) but this could be wrong as they are for humans.

She is eating 1/2 turkey 1/2 veg and 1/3 Orijen for right now. BG 225 +, i think maybe the amoxcillin may be making her tired and maybe affecting BG. I'm glad she is eating, she's not drinking alot of water tho.

We have never had any bladder or kidney troubles so I don't know what to think.:confused: We just got over the diarrhea situation !

k9diabetes

12-28-2008, 09:59 PM

I'm anxious to hear what you find out at the vet.

Natalie

Cara's Mom

12-29-2008, 02:32 PM

Hi Dolly, sorry to hear that Niki isn't feeling just right:(! Bet you, it's the amoxcillin that is atleast partly to blame. Hope it won't last long!
Best wishes,

BestBuddy

12-29-2008, 06:37 PM

Hi Dolly,
I get really different readings with the urine sticks from day to day and even hour to hour and I think that the amox messes with the results. Buddy is also on amox and any urine reading I take within an hour of the med is always really strange. I do a blood test and his BG can be normal but the urine strip says high.
Jenny & Buddy

eyelostit

12-29-2008, 08:09 PM

Tommorrow is out appt, my vet not there today, Niki's spirits seem better today, but i'll feel better after tests are done

eyelostit

01-02-2009, 12:03 AM

Niki seems to be OK, but I will feel better after I get the blood and urine reports from the vet, no doubt Monday :(

Her BG has been OK, before the vet and food 242, at the vet 3 1/2 hrs after shot 184 vets reading. High at PM no doubt the stress from the vet, nails trimmed and the blood draw.

Had a 220 am on Wed and a 176 at 8 1/4 hrs after meal. I did not take BG again until 3 hrs after meal and shot she was at 293.

Thursday AM of 207 and a PM of 182.

Shes still on the Amoxicillin, but I have changed her diet to 1/4 C of turkey 1/2 veg 1/3 Orijen 1/8 dry Eukenuba sens stomach and a tablespoon of canned and 1/4 c of warm water.

I think the Orijen is helping and being that has more protein in it i decreased the turkey i usually gave, I am adding some water to her food because of prev tests at the vet.

I still am having a hard time with giving the shots and hope it will end.

will post on that when I get those reports in my hands. I'm hoping her BG stays steady with the AM and PM fasts I don't know if the Amoxcillin has anything to do with her BG figures.

eyelostit

01-02-2009, 12:05 AM

Jenny i really never had any luck with the urine strips also, she could be at 150 and the strips would show high.

eyelostit

01-02-2009, 12:23 AM

Oh Nat, you had mentioned about me giving her more food, I started giving some of the Eukenuba Sens Stomach along with current food, that seems to have alot of corn in it, as I go along with her new meal I think I will increase the Eukenuba and will have to up the insulin.

I was hesitant because when Niki was diag she was eating all that DCO and the new vet had me feed the Eukenuba Special RX diet food and all the dry just made BG go higher and higher, you remember then the vet had her on 18-14 units until she went into shock. So this is what scares me. It seems like over the years if I gave more than 10 units her body just had severe highs, then as i started with the homecooking this was the only way I could get her BG down, if I used a bit more insulin to lower the BG a bit she would still go high, why I don't know, but now I can see with her weight loss I must do something. She can't handle all the dry it just don't work, the dry ups the BG fast and then the insulin keeps working and will start a rebound.

So for the new year we will try and iron out some of these problems and get some weight on her. Once I get the test results back and post them, you and Kathy can help me figure something out better.:)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-02-2009, 05:07 AM

Those numbers below seem good. I'll be curious to see the results you get back today.

Chin up!

Ricksma

01-02-2009, 05:38 AM

Dolly....no advice really, just want to add my support for Niki's situation, and hoping for good lab results, AND some resolution to the shot thing. I still think it will smooth out, but, gosh, would it hurry up????? lol

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

eyelostit

01-03-2009, 12:07 AM

I think her losing weight could be the problem, I've had some luck above her back legs, sometimes it goes good, but most times it end up with having to do it in 2 areas. Which causes some insulin loss.

But I'm hanging in there, I hope this will pass, maybe with her new diet she will gain some weight.

eyelostit

01-06-2009, 11:14 PM

Still waiting on the vet, have had good results with the Orijen food :) with green vegs, I've added some Eukenuba, using some canned as a treat. I'm able to increase insulin a teeny bit.

She is still on Amoxcillin, will be done with that in a day or two.

Shots :confused: Will post later

Thanks for the emails.

k9diabetes

01-07-2009, 06:01 PM

Jack (not diabetic) is getting Orijen kibble now, about 3/4 cup of Orijen, 1/4 cup lowfat cottage cheese, and 1/4 cup Prairie canned (which is horribly expensive!) per meal twice a day.

The Canidae has become more difficult to get than the Orijen as some of the small independent pet stores are closing up due to the economy (closest one to us) or have owners so rude that I refuse to shop there (one is actually routinely insulting!)... So we tried Orijen and plan to stick with it for now.

Glad the Orijen is working for Niki!

Natalie

eyelostit

01-08-2009, 05:27 PM

I am still trying to put weight on Niki, past 3 shots went well, I have to keep an eye on her now, as with the new areas it can affect how she may absorb the insulin different.

Her bloodwork was OK, sometimes you can't see what is in front of your eyes.;)

k9diabetes

01-08-2009, 10:36 PM

I'm glad the shots have gone better lately! That would really wear me out worrying every time I gave an injection...

eyelostit

01-11-2009, 02:56 PM

Well its been no picnic with the shots I have to find a good spot and most times i end up with 2 spots.

I've started her on some more food and increased her insulin up to 10.5

As for food how many cups up should I go up to gain weight, or the addition of carbs, shes already getting some canned and Iams dry, Orijen veggies, turkey.

This shot situation is driving me crazy, never a problem in all the years with this.:(

At this point I am ready to add some pasta etc.

Your thoughts?

Cara's Mom

01-12-2009, 08:28 PM

Dolly, I am so sorry you and Niki are still having a hard time. Cannot give you any advice, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and Niki.
Hang in there!

Best wishes,

eyelostit

01-12-2009, 08:58 PM

Thanks Marion ;)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-13-2009, 05:57 AM

Dolly - Has she had any further lows?

Thinking of you!

Tami

eyelostit

01-13-2009, 05:14 PM

No lows, with adding more food and taking little steps with the insulin we are having highs I don't like which I suspected would happen, her curves are flat tho, so end of week will give me a better picture, in away its like starting over a bit with food and insulin, but I am more calm than that first diagnois way back.:rolleyes:

Cara's Mom

01-13-2009, 06:10 PM

But this time around you realy know what you're doing...keep up the good work!!

k9diabetes

01-13-2009, 11:44 PM

I hope she puts some weight on AND you get to keep the flat curves!

eyelostit

01-16-2009, 03:17 AM

This has not been easy, the increase in food and insulin and giving shots :o, not that I expected it would.:rolleyes:

I'll try to snap out of this feeling we sometimes get. ;)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-18-2009, 05:59 PM

How's Niki doing?

eyelostit

01-18-2009, 10:50 PM

She's OK, been having good fast in AM and highs in PM, so i had to adjust diet today. Shots are not any easier :o

eyelostit

01-19-2009, 11:44 PM

Back in Oct. I thought something was up with Niki, as to why her shots were bothering her afte 6 yrs with no problem. Vet does not have a reason for this, then i see on her blood print out she lost weight about 8 lbs. i also notice Urine PH is 9, vet says not to been concerned with that as all the other tests will factor into that if something is wrong. Ok, i listen to the vet.

Since middle of Oct thru Nov i have been trying to increase food with Niki and that means uping insulin, not an easy task as Niki was very hard to regulate to begin with. She may have lost the weight over the summer, more walks, and being outside. I started adding barley to her diet, she was just about doing well with this, then we got some diarrhea with some gelatinous blood I think I found what was a undisolved lamb lung treat, so then we had to call vet and do the gr. turkey and rice and diarrhea med, which was Walmarts brand which i assumed was generic Kaopectate, Not so, as i found out.

So that goes away but we still have to feed the rice and turkey and gradually add some of her regular food, OK, thats over, so discussing with several people, I thought maybe the barley caused the diarrhea and problems with injections as to an allergy. So I quit barley, now she back to her old normal food, but she is not going to gain weight with this.

Now sometime in Nov- Dec we are adding to her normal food, i bought some canned,and Orijen dry added a little at a time, check BG goin hi, so i up insulin 1/2 unit to 10 U.

We are ok in am fast 225-230 ok, PM fast is 300+, so i think is it too much insulin or not enough, i decrease daytime insulin 1/2 unit, no that is not it. Ok, we go along, get 2nd bout of diarrhea, go get the real Kaopectate, this gets resolved in 2 days, we then keep the rice and turkey diet and start to add her normal meal.

Injections are still hard to do.

So now I am back to feeding the turkey, veg's, orijen, lil nutro (her old standby) still at 10 units, but going high 275-300 at PM fast, so I go and get some of those urine test strips, shows trace of protein in urine, ok that is not supposed to be that worrisome.

I then increase to 11 units, now I know this is going too high for Niki don't ask me why it just happens, when she was DX she had to eat 2 C of DCO 2 X day which was a horrible experience with me, Niki and the lousy Vet who went by the book, DX and started on 4 & 3 units of insulin and in 3 months we went up to 18-14 which resulted in shock. Vet did not do curves, how was I to know all this back then.

Anyway, I have learned that Canidae All Stages will increase BG, Orijen has more protein which can and cannot be good

Also any changes of food I did, had a change on the next blood test and urine test.

Her AML was always in low range all these years, but adding the dogfood made that rise a bit, thats ok, Niki is fine.

Urine with a 9 ph is not necessarily bad, and not all dogs have the perfect 6.5-7. Urine PH of 9 is alkaline and a 5 would indicate acidity.

Walmart diarrhea liquid is not the generic version of Kaopectate and no doubt her diarrhea came back cause whatever caused it did not really go a way.

I tested Niki's urine her PH is in normal range now, the dogfood? I guess thats it, still some trace of protein, so I'll not worry about that.

During the last vet visit with the PH of 9, and me getting a prev. test of 9 I called the vet, she gives me Amoxicillin in case of UTI, was their a UTI? don't know, Niki showed no signs.

So......now we may be getting somewhere, we are feeding 1/4 C turkey 3/4 c Veg, 1/4 C Orijen, 1/4 C Euk Sens Stomach (i had this on hand from the diarrhea episode.) and 1/8 C brown rice, 2 Tablespoons of canned. Once a day she gets alittle milk thistle, 1/2 of a flax oil sprinked on her food, and 1/2 of a digestive enzyme. (tho I am not fond of adding things but I will if its gonna help her kidneys or liver etc.) BG is looking better, her coat looks better, and she seems more active now,with 10.5 units 2 X

Shots are still a problem, it don't matter where I give them, could be in 2 spots, per the vet as long as I get the insulin in.

So now I pray we are getting somewhere, can we please now gain some weight, I'm sure the weight loss caused this problem, as I have looked everywhere for info on skin problmes and asked the vet why I was having trouble with injections after 6 yrs.

Thank you Nat & Kathy for helping me understand more and get bead on all this bloodwork!! and for keeping me somewhat together.;)

But I have learned alot, with reading a ton of info, websites, the Merck Vet Manual, the Human manual, Geez I was reading one of these between the commercials during the Steeler Game.

Over the holidays we had to travel for a family illness and with of this going on it was just non stop, so I really could never get a post together with all I had to do, taking Niki & Mom with me for a week etc,the BG checks and shots at a different place etc., I pray the light at the end of the tunnel is here, maybe next few days I will weigh Niki if she holds still enough while I hold her on the scale.

So now, I know this is more info than you may ever want to know, but I had to let it out.:rolleyes:

It all takes time, patience, and I am worn down, and now I hope this is over, but I still have the shot problems....:o and a high may come out of nowhere.:rolleyes:

k9diabetes

01-20-2009, 10:46 AM

You have been through the wringer! I thought my meal mixture for Jack was complicated until I saw yours! :eek:

Jack's meal is in three stages... First 1/4 cup of kibble sprinkled around a ball so he doesn't inhale it. Then another 1/4 cup of kibble around the ball. Then 1/4 cup kibble that's been stirred around in the leftovers of Gus' jar of turkey baby food (just cuz it tastes good) plus 1/4 cup cottage cheese and 1/4 cup Prairie canned all mixed together.

I know that losing Chris reduced my defenses and things that might not have been overwhelming before can be overwhelming now. And then you worry about their health. My IBD/lymphoma kitty was having problems - soft-serve poop for months. I was worried and we spent a lot of money doing bloodwork and an ultrasound thinking we had lost control of his illnesses... turns out his anal sacs were full... overflowing... freakin'.... well you get the idea. Ultrasound all looked unchanged and turns out all we really had to do was a little housekeeping at the rear end to solve his problem! But with something like lymphoma in the mix, it's hard not to think that something awful is going on and losing a dog, like our Chris and your Chief... that can definitely make a person worry about everything else!

Natalie

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-20-2009, 01:42 PM

Wow Dolly! That's a ton of info to keep sorted out! You are a great dog mom!

Ricksma

01-20-2009, 06:02 PM

Dolly, you have had so much going on for so long, that I think you may be on overload....you certainly have good reason to be. I feel that you have gotten it all sorted out, and now you just have to try to relax, take care of yourself....I just know in my heart Niki is going to be okay. I am praying for her to have a nice weight gain....are you listening, Nik? Hang in there, kiddo. We are here for you.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

Cara's Mom

01-20-2009, 06:35 PM

Dolly, I agree with Teresa...looks like you got it figured out! (I knew you would:):)) Now take some time for a good long soak in the tub, with a glass of wine maybe;) and do some relaxing!

PS You are a very good doggy Mom !

eyelostit

01-22-2009, 12:55 AM

I am more relaxed now, especially since her BG is down to a good level.

Had a good soak in the tub the other day, I love Yardley English Lavender Soap.

Thanks everyone.:)

eyelostit

01-24-2009, 02:32 AM

Niki's been doing well, BG readings 169-217-191 so I am happy with that.

So today I take her BG and we get a 300, "oh no how can this be" my mum says is she HI, "yes" well I hate to tell you this but some of the bread we feed the birds blew into the yard and when I went to let her in I saw she was eating it.

Guess I can't really blame Niki, I hope she enjoyed the bread and some broken up pretzels, now I guess I have to move the tray we put our stale bread in, will winter ever end.:rolleyes:

k9diabetes

01-24-2009, 08:47 PM

Very excited for you to have such great BG numbers!! And I'm sure Niki was proud of herself for supplementing her diet so cleverly...

peggy0

01-25-2009, 05:32 AM

Thats soo funny. Forbin would have been in heaven. He was my bread king. I went for fresh hot break on saturday and he waited at the door for me, begging for a bite.

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-25-2009, 06:04 AM

Dolly - those are fantastic numbers! Yahoo!

My dogs aren't so much bread fiends....but TOASTED bread! Man - you'd think there was nothing better than toast.....

eyelostit

01-25-2009, 05:11 PM

Ok, I knew this was gonna happen sooner or later, this has happened way back 3 yrs ? ago.

Her BG has been great, but her body don't like going too low, at 10 1/2 hrs 161 so I figure lets just check again in 45 min, OK up to 400. Happened with AM fast today

She gets a treat at 4 hrs teaspoon of veg's, 1 Orijen, teaspoon of turkey. In the past, If I give anymore at a later hour the BG can go up to over 300 at fast this was before the diet change.

So I assume this happened overnight again, even with the lil treat, so I am undecided, I hate to decrease the insulin with the good numbers, could that insulin be building up (depot), remember in the past at DX vet kept uping insulin cause of her highs. Give more of a treat, or give just some veg's at 6 hrs or 1 kibble, I have some eagle pack turkey 90% treats I cut in 1/2 I give her after shot at times.

Oh maybe I am answering my own question, and give another treat at 6 hrs. I don't like the jump 161 to 400 in 45 min. I tested with Alphatrac and Relion both simlar figures,or decrease insulin at PM? What do you think?

eyelostit

01-27-2009, 06:17 PM

Well gave a little more food, up a bit yesterday, so we'll see in a bit how todays goes.:)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

01-27-2009, 06:54 PM

Let us know!

Ricksma

01-28-2009, 06:47 AM

Waiting to hear about how Niki's numbers are doing with the food change.

Teresa

pgcor

01-28-2009, 08:39 AM

Boy Dolly - I just don't understand all the tweaking. As a novice, I assumed that if I controlled Pip's diet all would be well once I figured out the insulin/ diet combo. I assumed that when people had issues with diabetes it was mostly because they did not stick to their diets. But I control every morsel of food Pip gets.

And it still confounds me when Pip goes out of "regulation" or I read about the tweaking you're doing after having Niki so well regulated.

I only wanted to say that you have so much experience with this, that you'll figure it out!

I'm hoping I can "absorb" some of this information as I read the posts here. But jeez...do I feel out of my element even posting.

Good luck Dolly!

Pam

k9diabetes

01-28-2009, 09:53 AM

I'm not really sure I understand this process with Niki... makes me wonder if she sometimes absorbs the insulin quickly, dropping her to the lower number, and what you're seeing in the high afterward is that she burned through the insulin so it ran out early.

Not that her body doesn't like low blood sugar but that the lower blood sugar comes from rapid insulin metabolism, and that rapid metabolism kind of uses the insulin up all at once. Then once the insulin is abruptly gone, her blood sugar starts rising rapidly.

I think it's hard for any of us to understand what's happening with Niki as there has been a lot of changes with her food lately. I know I don't have a clear picture of where she's at so really can't offer any advice other than to suggest that rapid metabolism might be the cause of the "lows" that aren't actually low.

Especially from a distance, I can't do much evaluation without a curve and even then a curve on a changing regimen is of limited value.

If I had a curve and information about the regimen behind it, like "five days ago we started the following meal plan and 9 units of insulin per injection" and the same meal and insulin had been given every day, then I might be able to say something based on the curve as it would reflect a trend.

That was one advantage we had with Chris, who needed a lot of analysis to get to the best insulin arrangement. He ate the same thing the whole time so food wasn't a variable. I don't think we could have sorted it out if we had to vary his food at the same time.

I do worry lately that maybe Niki's regimen has become too fluid. Especially with your worrying about her and her weight, it would be easy to fall into chasing numbers. Do you feel like you're getting to a point where you can settle into something now that you've increased her food to put some weight back on her?

Natalie

eyelostit

01-28-2009, 09:18 PM

Pam,
its sort of hard to try and do the opposite of what everyone else is doing, cause I am trying to put on weight, she has been fine for years, but weight loss came into picture this year.

So feeding xtra carbs, and feeding more home cookied and dog food gets sorta nerve wracking after it all went so well in the past.

You know how it goes with switching a food and matching the insulin, today is much better.:)

eyelostit

01-28-2009, 09:22 PM

Nat, no not really chasing numbers, it was just getting that high # after a nice figure.

I did answer my own question on prev. post after I wrote it, she needed more food.

be back in a bit

eyelostit

01-28-2009, 11:40 PM

After the low I got last week then the big rise I just figured she needed a little more food, with that big jump I figured her liver released the sugar, that would make sense to me with gettin the 161 and going to 400 after an hour, so maybe she did a quick drop in an hours time.

Her prev curve Diet 1/4 C turkey, 1/3 C Orijen dry, 1/3 C Eukenuba dry,3/4 gr. bean & broc mix, 1/8 C barley, 2 teaspoons pumpkin, 2 Tablespoons canned Pedigree Weight Mgmt. 10.5 units

11:00 no fast
1:45 369
2:45 361
8:00 337
10:00 278
11:00 283 after this day I got the 161 then the rise 400

Now I decreased ( I know this don't make sense the decrease)the Orijen to 1/4 C and Euk 1/4 C left everything else the same. Giving treat of 1 Tablespoon of Veg, 1 Orijen, Teaspoon of Turkey, 1/2 teaspoon of canned.

So, yesterday was 212 fast and pm 255

Today 244 fast 240 pm fast treat at 3 hrs.

What we have to remember is that this has taken about 3 months of trial and error, adding more food and increasing insulin at 1/4 U at a time each week.

So today was 244 at fast and 240 pm fast

She is getting more food than she ever had, her diet prev yrs. was 3/4 turkey 3/4 veg's 1/4 Nutro Senior (at times 1/2 C Nutro)sometimes we would use Rice or Oatmeal in place of the Nutro, and you know how we try different foods at times going way back.

The PM fast of 255 could be from the treat, but with last curve there was a 283 pm and the day or two after 161.

I can live with the 212 and 255, tho I'd like to see a 212 again at evening fast, but that will differ, so we'll ride this out this week.

I don't want to increase insulin to 11 units yet, not till I see some steady numbers I can feel comfortable with, no 161 and a jump to 400 in an hour, seems the timing of treat is important.

I'll do a another curve this weekend. I was going to just weigh her but if I pick her up I may rub against where she got her injection. Shots are still kinda hard, tho sometimes no complaints from Niki, she still comes to me for her shot without me asking.

Will try to weigh her tommorrow, and middle of Feb go to vet for blood tests.

I hope thru Sunday these figures stay the same, then maybe I can go up to 10 3/4 units.

Its frustrating after all these years with diet that worked and now in past 3 months with changing the diet and trying to get it into a decent BG range, I've been using the same food, prev used some rice then added mix of rice & barley, to all barley for more carbs, adding more veg's will take more time for her to put on weight vs the dry food. So to any newcomers to the board have patience it takes time, I know how frustrating this all can be.

So I hope this stays in same range till Sunday, hope this makes some sense ;)

k9diabetes

01-29-2009, 11:14 PM

Food changes are always difficult, that's for sure. I used to heave a big sigh every time I had to change Chris' diet...

Chris' diabetes got me into some good habits though.

From day one with Jack I have measured his food for his two meals a day, which allows me to increase it or decrease it as needed to maintain his weight, which is perfect right now. We met a couple of seriously roly poly labradors the other day in front of the house and there are a handful of overweight dogs - one very seriously - on our short, two block street.

Ricksma

01-30-2009, 06:33 AM

There have been times when I felt that I needed to change what Ricky was eating...not because of any problem like weight loss or lack of interest on his part...but just because I thought he might be getting bored with the same meal twice a day for a year and a half. I had to slap myself...his numbers are generally good, and we haven't had any major issues, and he is still interested in his food. So what was my problem? I just had to remind myself that even though I might have been bored with it...if it's not broken, don't try to fix it. If or when I have to change his food for any reason, I guess I will learn how it feels to try to "re-regulate" him. Not looking forward to that.

eyelostit

02-01-2009, 10:24 PM

Well Niki is doing very good :). I held her on the scale and it looks like she gained 3 lbs if my scale is correct.

She is eating 1/4 C turkey, 1/4 Orijen, 1/2 C Euk Sens dry, 1/2 C gr. bean broc mix, 1/8 C cooked barley, Tbsp of Pumpkin, 1 Tblsp of canned Pedigree weight mgmt.

10.75 U

So I am feeling alot more comfortable now, we had a 76 AM fast (I don't care for this) but it was with the human meter so I figure it really was about 95-100, so today I added a bit more kibble. The timing of the treat has to be at 3 hrs, if I would go out I would decrease the insulin a bit so I'd feel more comfortable leaving her.

Sigh...........;)

k9diabetes

02-02-2009, 09:15 AM

Hooray!! Can you see her filling out better and looking less thin?

Dollydog

02-02-2009, 09:22 AM

That's awesome news about the weight gain...that's quite a diet she's on. Reminds me a little of what I've gone through with feeding Lady just to get some quality and consistency when travelling or at home.
I've been checking on you all January and now I'll have more internet access so can keep up with you two!
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

Cara's Mom

02-02-2009, 10:56 AM

WOW!! Nice weight gain! Congratulations:D:D:D

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom

02-02-2009, 12:29 PM

Yahoo!!!!!

We Hope

02-02-2009, 12:35 PM

Hurray!

:):D;)

Kathy

pgcor

02-02-2009, 02:23 PM

Great news Dolly! You and Niki are real troopers!

eyelostit

02-02-2009, 08:50 PM

Thanks everyone, it was a bumpy road, but now we are on the right track, hopefully, you all know how that goes.:D

eyelostit

02-02-2009, 09:15 PM

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=142

This is a good picture of Niki, you can see the blue heeler or aussie shepard in her with the border collie. Lots of fur!!

BaileyBear

02-02-2009, 11:21 PM

Niki is such a beauty - big congratulations on the weight gain! :D

eyelostit

02-03-2009, 03:08 PM

Thanks Bailey :),
You would think looking at the picture her weight is good, but if I would do her summer shave she would look like a greyhound. Her fur is very thick and about 1 1/2 long and longer in other spots, clydesdale hair on front paws, I keep up with trimming around the butt area and under tail, helps so we don't get any anal gland trouble. She just amazes me everyday.:)

BaileyBear

02-03-2009, 10:32 PM

I know what you mean about the coat. We had a Border Collie mix and OMG did that dog have a ton of fur! He had one of those double coats - short, dense, kind of fuzzy hair underneath, and then the long, silly coat on top. He was a nightmare during Spring shedding. We used to joke that we could make him a friend, lol. :rolleyes:

I guess it's about time I start using my own name around here...Erin. :)

Fishslayer

02-03-2009, 10:53 PM

[QUOTE=eyelostit;6115]Well Niki is doing very good :). I held her on the scale and it looks like she gained 3 lbs if my scale is correct.

Congrats on the weight gain.

She's a beautiful furry girl! I can see how you'd have trouble judging her weight under that fur coat!

Rick

eyelostit

02-04-2009, 09:56 PM

Thank you Rick, that video was great I can clearly see Niki is part Blue Heeler, I looked at another with puppies and also seen the Red Heelers had blue eyes, I guess the Blue Heelers do to.

Thanks again, Dolly

Fishslayer

02-04-2009, 10:43 PM

Cattle Dog eyes are brown. If a red Cattle Dog had blue eyes I would strongly suspect a stranger in the woodpile...:rolleyes:

Rick

eyelostit

02-04-2009, 11:23 PM

LOL, that makes sense.:D

eyelostit

02-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Went up to 11 units, no go, got a high this AM, I'm just staying at the 10.5, I think if I fed Niki 3 Cups each meal and gave the 11 units it really would not matter, she just never could have good #'s going over that amount of insulin, what it is I have no idea, so you can see why that AH first vet kept uping her insulin to the 18 units way back.
She's doing fine, happy, thats all that matters.:)

pgcor

02-08-2009, 07:06 AM

Hey Dolly - I'm having similar issues with Pip. Got a really high urine test this AM. I guess we have to live with this #%#$@! in order to get them to gain weight. 3 lbs. is awesome. It's taken me quite awhile to get 2.3. I freak everytime Pip goes high, because I don't want him to lose more weight.

You know it amazes me to think that Pip gets 17 oz. of chicken per day and that's just the maintenance amount!

eyelostit

02-11-2009, 12:56 AM

I've switched her food around abit, using less of this and a little more of that, surprising what that can do for BG.

Pam, I am still having trouble with injections, this AM I had to do 3 spots, tonight it was 2-3 I can't even remember, as long as I get the insulin in.

I've made an appointment with another vet close by to have bloodwork done and ask again about these injections, I just cannot believe the problems I am having, no problems for 6 yrs and now this starts, I just don't know, maybe it was the weight loss, but other dogs are smaller, or dogs have less hair than her, or are streamline and don't have problems, maybe its because she's had over 4000 injections all this time, its just getting too me, maybe tommorrow will be a good day.:confused:

pgcor

02-11-2009, 06:58 AM

Hang in there Dolly! I think once you mess with the food, combined with the weight gain, it messes them up for awhile. 4,000 injections is bound to toughen anyone's skin. I know nothing about diabetes compared to you - but I'm still praying all goes well for Niki. I believe with less of a caretaker, she wouldn't have been so well regulated for 6 years. This disease sucks!

eyelostit

02-12-2009, 09:50 PM

Yep it does, I have switched back to the 31 gauge, but it still bothers her.

eyelostit

02-19-2009, 09:02 AM

We went to new lady vet last night, closer to home, I liked her, they have more diabetic cats and only treat a few diabetic dogs. She had said she likes to maintain diabetic dogs at highs of 230 at fast if possible and nothing lower than 125, she said she don't care for tight control unless you are home with pet all day, ok, that made sense to me. She also knew about blind dogs, she had one but not from diabetes from another illness, she did give Niki a good check up for 1st visit, I was amazed at all the attention with the vet, and 2 staff people, one who took the blood, I think she understood diabetes better than the other vet, I gave her copies of the past 2 bloodworks, she said they looked really well for a diabetic, so ok, I was probably worried about nothing, but I just worry to much, and I can't blame myself for that.
I told her about having trouble with the shots, she gave suggestions, but I knew them, she frowned on the orajel and amnbesol saying that doing that every shot 2x day will get into system, ok that would make sense doing this everyday, so I guess scratch that idea. She said she'd look into the giving shots problem, so we'll see if she gets back to me, it'd be nice for a miracle.

I had Niki's blood test done the bigger panel one, not the cbc w profile.

All and all I did like these people. They were nice but I wonder if this was cause we were new, Why do I have to think this way.:rolleyes:

We Hope

02-19-2009, 09:11 AM

http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/pumps/relatedproducts.htm

"Holding an ice cube against the skin for several minutes can also numb the skin."

We tried this a while back for someone's dog who was having problems when he got his shot. It takes a little longer with a dog because you need to hold it there long enough for the cold to get past the fur. Our "test dog" was a samoyed, so you know how thick that type of fur is. It worked fine. ;)

Maybe this can replace the OraGel/Anbesol--nothing but frozen water. :)

Kathy

eyelostit

02-19-2009, 09:21 AM

I have tried this, I don't think I held it in place long enough, no doubt I did not, Niki was just out laying in the snow, so she wasn't cold on her belly where there is less fur. We will try again and hold it on her longer.:o

eyelostit

02-19-2009, 09:49 AM

I won't have Niki's bloodwork till Fri, I can go and get the copies or they will fax to me.

Oh her bg at vet was 202, 2 hrs after food the Relion meter read 206, so the vet agreed with me the lower the bg the better the human meter will match, once bg is going high you have to add a figure to the result you get, but with that figure I knew Niki was going to go into her drop soon so she got her treat once we left there.

My alphatrac is broke, new one on the way.

They use the Alphatrac there also, oh and Niki gained 2.5 lbs, I thought it was 3 but I did not count my jammies and slippers that night :D

Vet said to only let her gain about 2 more lbs as with her age it does not help with arthritus, so thats good, I don't think I can take much more of feeding her more food and monitoring her bg as much as I am. The vet did ask about arthritus, I told her I thought we were having some trouble, but I think it was cause she had the diarrhea awhile back 2 times and the UTI if it was a UTI, I question that, I bought the Multistix and test her urine, sometimes her PH is 6-7 normal, then it will be at 5 and then up to 9, it must be how the body works and how your system handles things and ends up in the urine. LOL maybe I'll use them 3 times a day and see if my PH moves up and down :rolleyes:!! No, I don't test Niki's urine 3X day, the strips are too expensive. ;) Geez at times I feel like a scientist.:rolleyes:

I was glad Niki gained the weight with the shot problems, vet said most of her older dogs are overweight, so that made me feel better. Still I want to get the 2-3 lbs more on her with spring and summer trying to approach here.:rolleyes: I'll be glad to see my lenten rose spring up, they are supposed to pop up early as now or in March.