My Dogs Keep Fighting

[pgcor]

I hate to post this, but I'm so overwrought this morning. My Pip and Newman have never gotten along very well. Pip was a rescue dog that we got at 6 months. He is very spoiled and with the diabetes diagnosis I do baby him. He considers himself the alpha - I'm sure. My other dog Newman is a rescue too, but we got him as a puppy - maybe 3 months old. People tell me he looks like a pit bull mix - but I think it's because he's a brindle. I don't know what he is. But, he weighs 55 lbs and Pip weights 22.8.

This morning they got into it over a stuffed animal that Newman got out of the closet. It scared me and my husband because it was loud and vicious. Pip is so small, but does not see that as a problem and is the aggressor more often than not.

Newman was not going to take the bullying this morning and just went after him. It was extremely frightening and it took awhile for my husband and I to break it up. I was bitten on the hand by Pip and Newman's paw was bleeding. It was only a very small amount of blood, so I don't know if he got his nail stuck on something or what. I did not see a mark on him. He was growling up a storm when I tried to look at his paw. He does that a lot, but has never bitten. It's Pip that bites.

I hope I'm not borrowing trouble, but I've heard so many different "solutions" to this problem. We had both of the dogs at a behaviorist not far from our house. I hate to separate them, because I don't want to live like that - but Newman could clearly really hurt Pip.

I don't know what to do anymore. There just is no more $$$$ right now for additional training as Pip's medical bills are mounting. Our Vet was kind enough to write off a $257.00 lab bill.

I know folks have it much worse - I just wanted to complain a little. Thanks for listening. This is so frustrating as I love both the dogs. But they are really very trying right now.:(

[Fishslayer]

Dogs usually work out who is the alpha dog for themselves, but it is vital that they see you & your husband as being above them in the hierarchy and they must understand that you do not tolerate fighting. Maybe crate time could be called for.

For your dog to growl at you is unacceptable. That means he doesn't see you as top dog.

Try controlling the resources. When I feed my dogs they must wait for me to serve. Humans see this as "serving." Dogs see this as the top dog (me :D) providing food for the pack.

Try putting toys away & only bring them out when YOU decide.

As you've probly noticed, size doesn't always determine alpha. In most cases the female becomes alpha (paralleling human behavior:D).

Yes, I baby Lucy, the foster dog, but... she gets treats last, she gets pets last, she sleeps in a crate at night. She is at the bottom of the pecking order even tho she DOES get a lot of extra attention and care.

Make sure the dogs get equal attention. That TV behaviorist says dogs don't feel human emotions... OK. Maybe dogs don't get "jealous" but the reactions are the same whatever ya call it.

Hope things work out.


Rick

[k9diabetes]

There are some excellent books and videos that could help you work with them to resolve the fighting issue.

Pat Miller is one trainer who has written many books on positive training methods. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=Pat+Miller

I also like Patricia McConnell. She sells little short books on particular problems in addition to books on training in general. http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/category/dog-training-books

Dr. Yin at UC Davis also has quite a few video resources on her website: http://www.nerdbook.com/sophia/chron_arts.html#Dog. She was very helpful in responding to an out of the blue email I sent her once about a neighbor's dog who is a very anxious guy.

On television, I like Victoria Stillwell - It's Me or the Dog.

We have been working with dog/cat aggression. Jack has been here four months now and they are starting this month to spend time without gates between them. Still requires a watchful eye but Jack has learned that he fares better if he leaves them alone and they are starting to trust more... they're not there yet... that he won't attack them. I think it will be several months more at least before they can peacefully coexist and probably even longer before I leave them together in the house when we are gone.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Okay Pam... it's all your fault! :p

Not two hours after I wrote my last post here, Gus, the autistic cat, attacked Jack because he was in a chair in the living room that they both consider their own.

I'm minding my own business and suddenly there's a writhing screaming snarling ball of gray cat and black and white dog in the next room. Jack had Gus pinned on his back between his front feet and was taking a beating from Gus' claws and giving it back with snarling lunging biting at him...

And just as I tear the two of them apart, Katie, Gus' sister, sees the opportunity to exact her revenge and she barrels in and attacks Jack!! Exact same thing. Jack pins her between his front legs and she's clawing at him and he's biting at her. Even after I separated them, she stayed a few feet away threatening to dive back in. I had to throw a blanket over her to get her to back off. Her fur was all over the carpet.

I have the flu today and frankly I did not need the adrenaline rush!

Jack and I were the only ones bleeding - mostly Jack.

Gus and Katie are Maine Coons so have very thick fur and I have to think that Jack did not try to kill them or he probably would have succeeded. There didn't seem to be a scratch on them.

Jack's nose was scratched from top to bottom on both sides - coated it with antibiotic ointment and put the cats away behind barriers and that's where they stay for a few weeks until everybody calms down.

I think the pet chair is history as it's been a bone of contention all a long and I'd just as soon be rid of it anyway. Gus will never learn anything so the best way to solve them fighting over it is to get rid of it.

It didn't help that our bout of sunny weather brought the terrorizing terriers out barking like crazy today so Jack was already feeling anxious and reactive when the cat attacked him. I think solving the problem with the terriers will solve a lot of other anxiety with Jack - he can't relax when they are out barking.

Natalie

[pgcor]

:(Rick, we've had both dogs for training. In fact, we had them to a trainer who is very well thought of in the area - one that some of the shelters use in order to get some animals placed.

Newman was growling in front of him - but he said Pip was the problem. He said Newman was growling as a way of letting us know to stay away from him, because he didn't need any trouble. I found that a little hard to believe, but what do I know? When Newman growls he's usually sitting on the couch or the bed and I make him get down. I feed them both twice a day and they wait while I fix their meal. Pip is crazy though and barks the entire time. I've tried all kinds of behavior modification for that. I used to go and sit down and wait for Pip to stop barking. But it was taking so long that I was afraid of interfering with his insulin schedule. And he never stopped barking. But I'll read the links Natalie provided and see if there's something else I can do.

I've had two dogs before and scuffles broke out - but these two???!?!?!?!?! This AM they were playing with each other on the bed.

Natalie - OMG - will cats kill each other? That stuff really scares me. It must be me - I have the flu too!! And you're welcome :)

[k9diabetes]

Jack is a 50 pound border collie fending off attacks from two 12 pound cats... that's why I'm glad he does not seem to want to kill them!

[rhodesian46]

We have scuffles here as well. Jasmine ( the husky) and Kahlua( the boxer) have gotten into probably 4-5 fights in 7 years. Jasmine likes to keep watch by her milk bone They all get this when I wake up. Well I think Kahlua attempted to steal the milk bone and they got into this fight Tables almost toppled. I grabbed one of them and broke it up. Kahlua had bitten Jasmine right near her eye. Ad there was blood I freaked thinking OMG another vet bill??? I think dogs test their territory.A Lot of the teeth raising is sometimes caused by the ball. I usually seethe body behavior and tell them no bite. Harley the lab pit is really obsesses with the ball Poor demon Sabastion just wants it a minute when Harley warns him with a deep growl The other day they got into it because they both wanted to bark at the neighbors and both wanted to stand by the fence. Sabastian ended up being bitten on the leg ( small bite) This doesn't happen a lot There is a pecking order here. You just have to recognize the body language that they exhibit. And we say at my house" No bite" They all know what this means.
Natalie I have soved the problem of the dogs chasing the 3 cats. They are petrified of the water bottle that I spray at them. No longer have todo that I just have to touch the sprayer and they know It is not that they want to hurt the 3 cats They want to hit them with their paws then lick them. When I first brought Cleo( the Siamese cat) in the house after finding him 6 months ago my dogs went nuts on him Now cleo can relax in the living room right next to them What a change. But we worked on it.

[k9diabetes]

Jack is not the problem any more. He tries very hard to stay away from the cats and doesn't lunge at them or bark or chase.

It's the cats who have the 'tude now. They have not forgotten or forgiven his previous behavior!! :mad:

Gus, in particular, is not trainable. He's the autistic cat... fortunately, he's also not very energetic and doesn't mind spending most of his time in his kennel. Katie eventually can be brought around but it is gonna take a long time and they are all PO'd at each other right now. She was very gentle with Chris, but Chris was here before them. And Jack's energy makes them defensive.

I know it will get better with time. I still spend some time a few evenings a week giving Jack and Katie treats when they are side by side, within a foot of each other and no gate between. They do fine then.

[pgcor]

Hi Natalie - can the cats do real damage to Jack? That's my biggest fear. I know there will be "disagreements" from time to time, but I worry about real injuries. I've never had cats and dogs at the same time, so I don't know how they get along.

Newman is so big that he can, if he wants, snap Pip like twig. He does respect Pip's boundaries - it's Pip that wants to take everything from Newman. He's really been aptly named.

[k9diabetes]

Mainly I worry about them snagging an eye - they definitely could destroy the eyes. Otherwise, I mainly worry that they will tick him off enough to want to kill them.

[rhodesian46]

Pam,
In my house the dogs know that they will get clawed so they keep away They don't want to hurt them they want to pounce on them when the cats run The spray water bottle worked wonders Now I am curious what goes on hen I am not home and they are all in the house They probably are pouncing on each other:D:D