Diet's.......

[johanna]

I dont know if this is ok to post a new post topic or not....
if not it will be moved....
but.... seams to me Diet is a major issue...
What our diabetic eats affects the insulin......
in my case its also a Pancreatitis issue.....
I am constantally looking for I diet that would be good for Killian's issues and make my life less hectic ...
I am home cooking at the moment... and its killing me.... I'm defrosting a 12 -15 lb turkey every 2 days, and i need another alternative ....
I would love to see what everyone is using and the break down amounts...
I would also like to know what has been tried with not good results....
So this could save time and money for someone else....

Right now I'm giving Killian......
1 cup of cooked Turkey or Chicken breast
1 cup of brown rice or Barley
1/2 cup of fresh Broccoli or cauliflower or both ( ground fine)
2 tablespoon of pumpkin
This is given 3 x a day......

I need something easer..... Help........:(

[We Hope]

It seems to me you're absolutely right that diet IS a big issue! :) Let's see what others can suggest.

[Ricksma]

Johanna, What about ground turkey instead of whole turkey? It would be easier to thaw, and easier to cook. I use ground white meat turkey, instead of the plain ground turkey...it has a lot less fat. That would be an issue with you and Killian. Seems like everything else you feed is relatively simple if you could resolve the turkey issue. Maybe this will help.:D

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

[Ricksma]

I forgot about the diet Ricky is on:

1/4 c baked chicked
1/4 c roast beef
1 1/2 baked W/D patty
1/8 c green beans

Twice a day...it's a lot easier when they are little!!!!:rolleyes:

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

[johanna]

Teresa....
What do you mean by ground white turkey?
Is that the turkey that looks like chop meat ?
I have seen that.... But its so much more a pound to buy....
I'm getting whole butterball turkeys at Aldi's for .89 cents a pound....
so the turkey cost's me around $12 to $13 each.....
I buy 6 at a time thats all I can get in my freezer and still have room for the family....
Killian gets all the white meat and Zoey and LoLo get the dark....
Lately no one is eager to eat....
There sick of the Turkey... And LoLo loves Alpo... that's what she's use to get from the house she was at....
so to get her to eat I have to mix some alpo in it....
Killian got a crumb of it still left in her dish ( about a teaspoon full) and attacked it as if it was the best thing in the world !
I would really love to use some dry food......It would stretch this a lot.....
I just dont know what to get with all the carbs .....
Yet I read posts of diabetic dogs with issues that are being fed, supermarket dog food !!!
So I have to wonder am I being OVERBOARD... and making my life harder then it has to be???? :confused:

[Brandy mom]

Johanna

I could not imagine home cooking for a big dog. I will tell you what I am using for Brandy now.

1/4 cup of ground turkey I buy the turkey that is ground already and just cook it. I try to get all the fat out that I can.

2/3 cups of Sojo Europa. This is a dried vegetable mix. All I have to do is add water. I use this for extra fiber.

1 1/2 cups of Fromm White fish and Potato. I cut the amount from 2 cups Brandy had gain more weight.

Not happy with this diet. I like the way her fur looks from the Fromms. Brandy is a fish girl. Last week I saw a White fish and Sweet Potato food. This is what I am going to try next. Brandy get a big rise from potato. Some searching I have done said sweet potato are better then regular potatoes. I have not tested this yet. Maybe someone else knows.

In the dry food you posted. I saw potato in two different spots in the ingredients. Not sure if this is what raises Killie BG so much. I did try the innova no grain. Brandy BG went through the roof. I have tried two different diabetic foods from the vet. Neither one made a big enough of a difference in Brandy BG. I didn't like the ingredients in either one.

So I guess I am not much help. My vet told me to add more fiber to Brandy diet. I still searching this.

Dawn and the girls

[johanna]

Hi Dawn.....
I think your talking about the Merrick I posted....
I thought it was sweet potatoes in that..... I have to go back and look now...
Were you looking at the Merrick dry... or the can's?
I also have to use a full cup of Turkey 3xa day..... 3 cups goes fast when your grounding up chicken cutlets or turkey breast......Only about 2 days.with the full turkey
As I told Teresa... The ground turkey is a lot more money and I would have to buy a lot of it to give me that 3 cups a day that needed.....
Thats why I'm on the hunt for the right dry food......
Everyone raves about WD..... I don't think he'll eat it but tomorrow i'm running over to the vets near my house and buying a small bag.....
I cant think of anything else that I read so far that seams as good for him.....
Problem is most dogs hate it......
How much does Brandy weigh? ....
and I'm to assume that your feeding her 2x a day at 2 1/2 cups a meal.... total of 5 cups a day?
is that right?
I'm still on the hunt.....
I'm waiting to see what everyone here posts as to what there feeding......
as for your diet.... you cant Imagine home cooking.....
from your post you are home cooking....
Where did you get those Vegetables?
Thats a great idea,... they would also work in dry food too... Right?
If you have a link for those veggies could you post it....that sounds pretty handy to have in the house....

[k9diabetes]

Chris, weighing 64 pounds (a little too chubby) and using Regular insulin four times a day, is eating

Per meal
1/4 cup ground beef or chicken
1/4 cup Canidae canned chicken, lamb and fish
1 milkbone after his injection
grated cheese around his pills

Daily total
1 cup ground beef or chicken
1 cup Canidae canned chicken, lamb and fish
4 milkbones
4 cheeseballs with pills

We have used cottage cheese in the past in place of the ground meat but he and I both were getting tired of the soupy texture of his meals with cottage cheese.

Chris is not very active at all these days - a walk to the end of the block and back is a really long walk for him. When he was more active, he was getting 1/3 cup each of ground meat and Canidae.

He needs the ground meat to keep his blood sugar more level as he tends to digest the canned dog food pretty quickly. The milkbones actually seem to take a while.

The one thing with buying ground turkey or chicken is there's no waste, which reduces the price, not to mention the storage space.

Natalie

[johanna]

WOW Natale.....
Chris is getting a total 0f two cups of food a day... also milk bone and his cheese balls....
Now Killian who is bigger then Chris..at 99 lbs....is eating.....6-7 cups of food a day.....
The difference in there weight don't of set the amount I'm feeding...
It hadn't occurred to me that I might be over feeding him.....
Im going by a post once made that said for his size he should be getting from 5-7 cups of food....
I do think a reduction in his meals might be needed....
he Is is on the Chunky side.... But still handsome as ever.....
I will buy the ground beef - Chicken - Turkey..
Still looking for a dry food.... Or maybe not....if I reduce his intake some ....
and mix it with wet can food.....

PS.... I just called the vet's office near my home to get a small bag of WD to try.....
I couldn't get it.... I needed a prescription .... DUH !!!!!!
Thats why it's called Prescription WD......!
Sometimes i amaze my self at my stupidity !

[Kiska'smom]

Hi Johanna,

I don't know anything about diet yet. I'm just trying to keep Kiska eating, so that she doesn't lose more weight! I just wanted to say, though, how much I appreciated the information about foods. My dogs are big, too. I do cook them rice and hamburger with green beans, but they only get about 1/2 cup per meal. The rest of their food is Pedigree Senior (Lean Chicken with Rice); Purina Fit and Trim dry (about 2/3 C) and Hill's ID dry (about 1/2 C.) They get this at both meals. Thanks for asking the question about diets. I think I would kill myself if I had to cook a whole turkey every couple of days! You're a good woman!:D

Jeanne and Kiska

[johanna]

UP DATE::
My vet called in the script for the Wd to the local Vets office....
I only bought the 10 lb bag to start...( trying it out)
I also bought 4 cans of the can food....
I:m going to try this tonight and well see how it goes.....
I know a lot of people use this for there diabetic dogs....
But is it because that's what the Vet's push??? :rolleyes:
Or is it really good for our diabetic pet's?:confused:

[rhodesian46]

Hi Johanna,
pebbles eats Purina DCO total 5 cups a day She is around 60 lbs But she loves anything. That girl has never not eaten a meal in 10 yrs. The vets here charge $59 for a 35 lb bag. I can get it from Texas A & M for $36 May have to drive out there before pebs appointment

[We Hope]

When we weren't getting anywhere with Lucky, we made two changes. The first one was to canned W/D, and the next one (because we had to order it and wait for it to come into the pharmacy) was to pork insulin.

Within 24 hours of switching to the W/D, it was the first time we knew his bg's could go down; had we changed both food and insulin at once, I think he might have gone hypo. We knew it wasn't the insulin because we were at the resistance point--but to be cautious, we reduced his dose of insulin when we saw this.

A long time ago on the other board, we had a little guy who was well-controlled and he was switched to canned W/D. It worked all too well for him, as he had a hypo. His insulin requirements went down as a result of going over to W/D.

I would caution you to gradually introduce the W/D to Killian and to keep a good eye on how his readings are during this time. Many have said that their dog's insulin requirements were reduced when they were feeding this food.

It worked VERY well for us, but as I said above, you need to do it gradually and keep an eye on Killian's bg's.

[Jody]

Johanna - I use to buy the frozen turkey in the tube at Meijers for .99 cents a lb. I used it when making a chili recipe when Steve is dieting! Haven't made it in awhile...so not sure what it is per lb now, but I will check the next time I am in there.

I cannot imagine doing what you do for those dogs......you are a saint in my book! ;)

W.D. in not CHEAP by any stretch either! And the ingredients in the dry...um, not good! Loaded with peanut hulls. I have never gotten it into my head to understand the concept behind "THAT PRESCRIPTION DIET".

Now the canned W.D., I think it was $1.25 a can at my vets last year....I really didn't think that ingredients in the canned were THAT BAD. At least no darn peanut hulls or awful preservatives.

Something else for you to think about!
Good Luck with your mission! Jody

[Jody]

Taffy insulin needs went down also when we switched her over to the canned W.D., so watch him!

My vet always pushed the prescription diet also - sometimes I think thats all they know.

If you are paying .89 for a turkey - and .99 cents for the ground - I'd take the ground any day of the week.

Ok - we are throwing too much stuff at you!! My head would be spinning for sure by now.

Killian - be good and give mom only GOOD NUMBERS on her cell phone! (funny story behind that - Johanna will have to share it sometime!) :D Jody

[Ricksma]

Jeanne, I'm with you...Johanna is a saint!! I can't imagine cooking an entire turkey three times a week...she gets the blue ribbon for momhood. However, I will say this, I do cook everything Ricky eats with the exception of the W/D patty that he gets twice a day, but he is a small dog. Don't know how you all are managing with the big babies...I am in awe. :p

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

[johanna]

Good Morning.....
I think I have good new's.....
I gave Killian 1cup of WD dry for his middle meal last night and when it came time for his last meal and shot his BG was great!!!!
Then for his last meal I gave him
1 cup of dry WD
1/2 cup WD can
2/3 cup Turkey breast.....

Its hard to tell... it too early but this morning his BG was 184 before food and shot.....
I think I might be on to something here....
Still waiting for reply s on What everyone thinks of WD......

[We Hope]

Johanna,

The most important thing here is how Killian does on the food. If this is what keeps his bg's lower and more stable, then this is the right one for him. You need to see what helps Killian and stay with that; it might not be right for someone else, but it's right for him and that's all that matters.

I believe you're seeing the benefits of more fiber in his diet--that can help a lot.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Fiber

As I posted before, we knew the canned version was the right choice for Lucky when we saw it lowering his bg's when we knew the insulin we were discontinuing was doing nothing about them. Changing to W/D canned was the first time we saw his bg's lower and stay lower. For him, going to pork Lente insulin completed the picture.

[ladysmom06]

Hi Johanna,

I homecook for Lady. I use ground turkey or chicken. Here's her diet

2 cups ground turkey or chicken
1/2 cup cooked oatmeal
1/2 cup low fat cottage cheese
3 T celery
3 T string beans.

After I cook the meat I put it in the food processor. The string beans and celery also go in the food processor. Then I mix everything together and she gets a 1/2 cup for breakfast and 1/2 cup plus 1 T for dinner. She only weighs 11 lbs. so I only have to cook a couple times a week.

Her vet and IMS wanted her on the W/D can - we did try it and at first I added a teaspoon at a time to her food - then I slowly increased till all of her food was the W/D except for a tablespoon. I had only bought a few cans at that time. Of course as soon as I bought the case she refused to eat it. So we went back to the homecooked diet.

Like the other have said YOU ARE A SAINT! Lady is small - so cooking for her doesn't take much time - I don't know how you do it with a big dog.

Hoping you are on to something with Killian's new diet. Hugs to you and Killian.

[johanna]

OK... with the risk of sounding completely stupid.... I must ask....

"For him, going to pork Lente insulin completed the picture."
Is Nph a pork lente?
I do believe that is something a lot of us here dont understand yet......
Also who was that post by?
So I'm to assume that WD is high in fiber?
As you see I know nothing about WD..... I have been using Merrick can
before the Pancreatitis.....
I wonder if I should cut the amount of dry and add extra can based on that post.....

[We Hope]

We didn't think about the dry W/D because Lucky had previously had a bladder stone removed. At the time, their source of fiber in that was peanut shells--peanuts can cause some bladder/kidney stones to re-form. I see that they no longer use the peanut shells as their dry W/D fiber source.

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760433

W/D Dry Ingredients

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose 17.1% (source of fiber), Chicken by-product Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Mill Run, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Meal, Iron Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, L-Carnitine, L-Tryptophan, Beta-Carotene.

"Prescription Diet® w/d® Canine dog food, with its fiber rich formula, may be useful as a nutritional aid for dogs with fiber responsive diseases such as diabetes mellitus, colitis, diarrhea, constipation, and to help manage overweight dogs, including those with struvite urolithiasis."

And by removing the peanut shells, they can now say it's fine for those who either have or could form stones-"struvite urolithiasis".

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760455

W/D Canned

Ingredients

Water, Egg Product, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken, Cracked Pearled Barley, Pork Liver, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, L-Tryptophan, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), L-Carnitine, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.

"Prescription Diet® w/d® Canine dog food, with its fiber rich formula, may be useful as a nutritional aid for dogs with fiber responsive diseases such as diabetes mellitus, colitis, diarrhea, constipation, and to help manage overweight dogs, including those with struvite urolithiasis."

Either of these should work fine for you--it would probably be cheaper to go with the dry, because Killian's a big guy. A lot of people on the old board a while ago who used W/D used to mix the two--some canned and some dry, depending on their dog's personal likes and dislikes.

Now insulins--NPH is known as "N" or Isophane Insulin under various trade names. In North America, there's only r-DNA human insulin like this any more, but it can be made from beef (Hypurin Bovine Isophane--UK import--Iletin I N--discontinued by Lilly) or pork (Hypurin Porcine Isophane--UK import--Iletin II N--discontinued by Lilly) also. The brands of "N" insulin here are Humulin N, Novolin N and ReliOn/Novolin N.

Lilly used to also make a pork Lente insulin--Iletin II Lente. It was identical to Caninsulin/Vetsulin except for the strength--Iletin II Lente was a U 100 insulin, while Caninsulin/Vetsulin is a U 40 insulin.

Lucky's immune system destroyed human and beef insulin before it could do anything about lowering his bg's; because the pork insulin is identical to a dog's own, his system didn't destroy the pork. When Lilly discontinued this insulin, we tried him with their pork NPH--he had issues with the preservatives which are different from those of Lente type insulins and with the protamine (salmon/fish) suspension of NPH insulin. So we applied for permission to import Caninsulin for him, which you now know as Vetsulin here in the US.

[johanna]

I'm reading the ingredients in the WD and they don't look as good as what I have been using....
The first ingredients is corn in the Wd.....
I'm including the print out for the Merrick... tell me what you think....
You can delete it when done because it takes up too much room on the post...


5lb. Grammy's Pot Pie
The smell of Grammy’s house and her famous chicken pot pie is an unforgettable comfort, plus she doesn’t care if you watch Nick at Night all day. Our family loves dogs, and we’ve been sharing this gift with dogs around the world for a little while now and the votes are in – Grammy For President. She’s our number one seller because the woman can flat out cook, not to mention she took first prize in needle pointing at our local fair. This meal is sure to make your dog beg to move to Grammy’s, even if they have to eat their vegetables and massage her corns! Wash this dish down with some fresh peanut butter cookies and a cold pint of milk (not Skim but old school Vitamin D). Grammy sends her best!

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (Not Less Than) 23.0%
Crude Fat (Not Less Than) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (Not More Than) 3.0%
Moisture (Not More Than) 10.0%

Calorie Content:
3764 kcal/kg (calculated) – One pound provides 1707 kcal of metabolizable energy (calculated). One cup (100 grams) provides 375 calories (Caloric content calculated using Modified Atwater Method)

Ingredients:
Organic Chicken, Oatmeal, Barley, Chicken Meal, Whole Brown Rice, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols – a source of Natural Vitamin E and Ascorbic Acid, a source of Vitamin C), Flaxseed, Freeze Dried Potatoes, Freeze Dried Carrots, Freeze Dried Peas, Dried Chicken Liver, Freeze Dried Apples, Dicalcium Phosphate, Lysine, Guar Gum, Choline Chloride, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Whole Blueberries, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Whole Clove Garlic, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dried Chicken, Chicory Root, Marigold Extract, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Natural Celery Flavor, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Natural Color (tumeric), Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Complex, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Niacin, Lecithin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Amino Acid Complex, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.

Grammy's Pot Pie is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food nutrient profiles for all life stages.


THE CAN FOOD
PRODUCT 7 (OF 25) PREVIOUS PRODUCT | NEXT PRODUCT
Grammy's Pot Pie
The smell of Grammy's house and her famous chicken pot pie is an unforgettable comfort. Our family loves dogs and we thought it was about time to share this great taste with yours. These tender chunks of chicken are sure to make your dog beg to go to Grammy's, even if they have to eat their vegetables. Grammy's Pot Pie is prepared with Chicken, Red Jacket New Potatoes, Carrots, Snow Peas, & Red Apples.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (Min.) 9.00%
Crude Fat (Min.) 4.00%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 1.00%
Moisture (Max.) 81.00%

Calorie Content
1045 kcal/kg - A 13.2 oz. can provides 394 kcal of metabolizable energy, calculated value.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Fresh Red Jacket New Potatoes, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Snow Peas, Fresh Red Delicious Apple, Potato Starch-modified, Olive Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Flax Seed Oil (For Omega -3), Natural Caramel Color, Poultry Seasoning (Thyme, Sage, Rosemary), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Choline Chloride, Salt, Lecithin, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Mixed Tocopherols, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex,Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Amino Acid Complex, d-Calcium Pantothenate,Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.

Grammy's Pot Pie is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food nutrient profiles for all life stages.
each - $2.38
12ct/case - $28.52

[We Hope]

I think you need to have a look at how Killian's bg's were doing on the Merrick, how they have been in the short time he's eaten W/D, and let that be your guide.

http://www.glycemic.com/PressReleaseA.htm

The Glycemic Research Institute in Washington, D.C. announced today that they have selected Merrick Pet Food as the Best Pet Food of the Year for 2007.

The coveted Best Pet Food of the Year for 2007 was awarded to Merrick Pet Food for “Turducken,” Grammy’s Pot Pie,” and “Thanksgiving Day Dinner” Gourmet canned dog food. This is the third year in a row that Merrick’s Pet Food products have won the accolade as Best Pet Food of the Year.

The senior staff and associate research fellows of the Glycemic Research Institute (GRI) provide Pro Bono Glycemic Certification Marks for products that pass the strict criteria for “Low Glycemic” foods. The Federal GRI Seals of Approval are based on ongoing clinical studies (In-Vivo) that determine the glycemic index, glycemic load, diabetic, and fat-storing properties of foods. Determining how humans and animals metabolize foods allows scientists to gain insights as to the varying effects different foods have on metabolism and longevity.

For the past 20 years, GRI has been the industry leader in glycemic research, receiving the first glycemic patent ever awarded. Glycemic Solutions, the Official Clinical Testing facility for the Glycemic Research Institute, conducts Human In Vivo Clinical Studies for the food and nutrition industries.

The Glycemic Research Institute (GRI) examined hundreds of pet foods in 2006 to determine the healthiest overall product, focusing on anti-aging, diabetes, arthritis, glycemic, blood glucose and insulin response in the canine.

As a Non-Profit independent research organization, GRI has no ties to the pet food industry, and does not accept monies from any company for the Pet Food of the Year award.

In addition to the formulas listed above, the other Merrick formula’s that carry the Low Glycemic Seal are: FOR DOGS: Cowboy Cookout, Smothered Comfort, Wild Buffalo Grill and Working Dog Stew and FOR CATS: Cowboy Cookout and Ocean Breeze.


GRI Seals of Approval may be seen at http://www.glycemic.com/

[Brandy mom]

Johanna

Why don't you try the log of ground turkey. Aldi has them for 99 cents. Just fry some up and get all the fat out that you can. Some rinse it in water. You home test so you would know if this effect Killie BG. I was feeding Brandy chicken breast. It was so much work. I saw the ground turkey logs. So I tried them. It did raise the BG but only by a few points. I could live with the few point raise. It took so much stress off of me. But each dog is different. So you will have to try.

PS I started to change Brandy diet tonight. I am trying California Natural Fish and Sweet Potato. It will be a few weeks before I know if this will work.

Dawn and the girls

[johanna]

Hi Dawn.....
I am going on the direction of Aldi tomorrow ...
I never noticed that.... how big are they?

[Brandy mom]

I think they are one pound. It is in the freezer section. I know you are thinking a whole turkey is cheaper. But this is all meat. It look like hambuger. I made a hambuger and it wasn't bad.

Dawn and the girls

[johanna]

I'm going to give it a try.....
your right.... a Turkey is BIG>>>>> but a lot of waste.....
Im worried about the fat.... Ill have to cook it all out .... but 99 cents sounds good to me....
The Wd so far is a success.... Killian likes it ( I cant believe it) He likes the dry mixed with some caned....
Im just not sure yet what's healthier ... The Wd or the Merrick...

[Jody]

Johanna - you think too much! (only kidding you!) In Killian's case you have to choose your battles - you cannot have it all! I wasn't too keen on feeding Taffy the W.D. canned either (was it healthy? were the ingredients as good, etc.) but it helped her tummy issues and kept her numbers in good range - so to me at that point - IT WAS A GOOD FOOD!

Killian has lots of issues - the fact that he is eating it fine, numbers are good - I'd stick with it. ;)

I had no idea they had changed their formula in the dry!! About time! Off to google powdered cellulouse - what the heck is THAT? I'm afraid to look! Jody

[Ricksma]

Johanna, I have been home cooking for Ricky, plus giving him a patty of baked W/D with each meal. I started home cooking because he was so picky, but started to be afraid that he was getting too much protein...the jury is still out on the effect of a high protein diet on the kidneys. So the last few days, I have slowly started decreasing the chicken and beef in his diet, and increasing the W/D from one patty to, now, two. He has been eating his two patties better than he ate the one patty before...I think it is the decrease in the meat in his meal. AND his numbers have been wonderful. So, I have decided not to argue with success. You have done an amazing job with Killie, going above an beyond especially since the pancreatitis. It's okay to take a little break. You definitely deserve it.

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky ;)

[Kiska'smom]

Hi Johanna,

Hope that your big guy is doing well. What did you decide to do with his diet? I am wondering if the WD would work better for Kiska. She has been on ID.

Hugs,

Jeanne and Kiska

[rhodesian46]

jeanne,
Pebbles is on purina Dco and loves it!!!! MAybe Kiska can copy her !!:D

[eyelostit]

That is the turkey I use for Niki, I buy 10 of them at a time, I get a sav-a-lot, but i seen a few weeks back Aldi's had same thing different name, I did not see alot of fat in it, the brand i get is Carolina Turkey, I had a burger with it, was pretty good!!:D

[johanna]

Hi all
I have had a very busy few days.... Yard work and spring cleaning that I haven't done for the past 3 springs ... so a lot has to go !
This morning Killian' BG was 359 ... that was high for him in the morning...
I fed him and gave him his shot....
I was so busy here that it got so late when I looked at the time to give him that middle meal...( almost 9 pm) and his food and shot is to be at 11pm, so I skipped it...
I also wondered if I could go back to the two shot and meals again because I have to almost always have to hand feed him the middle meal... hes just not hungry.... then his BG goes up....
So To night I skipped it...
When I checked hi BG before the food and shot tonight it was ...54! thats 12 hrs after his last meal and shot.....
I fed him but as of yet I haven't given his shot.....
So the big question now is.... Shot or no shot.... or less insulin.....?????
If anyone is up and reading this I really need advice to what to do.....

[k9diabetes]

Did you give him some syrup to shore up his blood sugar in the short term?

If you use syrup to bring his blood sugar up right away, then you don't need to worry about giving an insulin injection with the next meal because you're starting in a good range of blood sugar when you feed him.

Anything else you can give him takes too long to be converted to glucose.

[johanna]

Hi Natale....
No I didn't... When I checked his BG it was when I was getting his food....
So do you mean that even though it wa his food and shot time i could have given him some syrup too ?
Its now....1 hr after hi meal and he up to 110....Still not sure where to go from here...give hot or wait till his higher?

[We Hope]

Johanna,

Whenever you see a low, the first thing you should do is to treat it with syrup, frosting--anything with sugar in it like that to start the bg's on their way up.

However, giving sugar is the "quick fix", but it doesn't get you 100% out of hot water. What you need after that is some food. Sugar will get bg's up quickly, but they won't stay up very long and Killian could crash again with only that. Syrup and the like are simple carbs--they work fast and fade fast.

Food with complex carbs in it take longer to work but they also last a lot longer than the syrup, etc. does. The food is what holds the bg's up after the sugar or syrup gets them to go up.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Carbohydrates

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Carbohydrates#Simple_and_complex_carbs

They are sorted into two basic categories--simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. The difference between the two is this: simple carbs have much shorter chains than complex ones. This means they are broken down by the body's digestion easier, making them quickly absorbed. Complex ones have longer chains, which take longer for the body to break down by digestion. They take longer to be absorbed because the breaking down process for them is more complex.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Carbohydrates#Simple_carbs

What this means for someone with diabetes is that in eating simple carbs, such as sugar, products containing sugar, milk, fruit, etc., the rise in blood glucose levels will begin quite soon after the food has been eaten. It will also not last for an extended period of time.

When dealing with hypoglycemia, the simple carbs (like sugar and corn syrup) are desirable, because they are able to work rapidly to raise blood glucose levels. Since they work quickly, they are also expended quickly, with possibly little or nothing left to keep blood glucose levels from dropping again. Eating or feeding something with complex carbs in it shortly after the start of recovery from the hypoglycemia makes certain that there will be longer-lasting carbohydrates available to keep blood glucose levels up, after the sugar or corn syrup has worn off.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Carbohydrates#Complex_carbs

Eating complex carbs such as potatoes and grains, means that the rise in blood glucose levels from them will begin later than with the simple carbs. The rise from complex carbs is also longer lasting.


You're far better off working to get the bg's back down after something like this than to take the chance of him going into a hypo.

[k9diabetes]

Yup, I would have given Chris syrup to start his blood sugar back up immediately.

Probably would have given him a half hour or so to make sure it was coming back up nicely and then I would have fed and injected, possibly reducing the dose of insulin dose... that would depend on your dog's typical response to food and insulin.

That syrup would deal with any insulin already on board and coming into the bloodstream faster than his meal and then the glucose from his meal would take over after that.

You measured 54... fifteen minutes later it could 34.

So you need a FAST source of glucose that's going directly into the bloodstream to make sure that doesn't happen.

It's different with every dog, of course, but usually diabetic dogs are intentionally fed a meal that is slowly digested over several hours. So feeding him his meal will not give him a quick surge of glucose in his bloodstream. It has to get into the stomach and be digested. That takes time.

I'd much much rather give Chris some syrup than upset his whole regimen by waiting to give the injection. There's significant benefit to keeping him on schedule, especially with slowly digested food and longer acting insulins. Now you're late giving the insulin and it's not just a matter of deciding what to do now but you also have to figure out how to get back on track.

I get the feeling you just hate the idea of giving syrup or frosting... not sure why. It's a very useful tool. Exactly because it starts fast and ends fast.

Natalie

[johanna]

I Just checked him again and he's 254 now.....he was 110 only 25 minute ago...
Im going to give him his shot now... but I think I'll cut the dosage....
I normally give him 31 to 32 units....
Im going to go with 25 for tonight.... What do you think? ....
And maybe a milk bone?
As you can ee he gets a fast rise from food......

[We Hope]

I Just checked him again and he's 254 now.....he was 110 only 25 minute ago...
Im going to give him his shot now... but I think I'll cut the dosage....
I normally give him 31 to 32 units....
Im going to go with 25 for tonight.... What do you think? ....
And maybe a milk bone?
As you can ee he gets a fast rise from food......

I think you are quite right to cut the dose tonight after having the low.

[johanna]

Thank 's..... I gave him the shot and went down to 25 units for tonight......
Im going to keep checking him every 2 hrs.......
Is this rebound? :confused:

[We Hope]

I doubt it. What it looks like is that Killian didn't have enough food to match the insulin dose he was taking. Your usual number of units is based on the amount of food he's getting. Today he missed the "middle" meal, but he had enough insulin on board to cover it.

When this didn't happen (the meal), he went low. The same thing can happen to people with diabetes when they miss or skip a meal--they can go low because their insulin was set up to handle the meal that didn't happen.

Going to add here that Killian might be running a bit high after doing the "dip" because the body responds by sending out signals to raise the bg's. What you have to resist though, is over compensating this by adding more insulin than usual--this is the way you set up rebounds.

It shouldn't discourage you from the thought that you might get him to 2 meals a day, if his pancreatitis will allow it. If you were giving Killian an apple 3 times a day and you still wanted to give him 3 apples but only give them to him twice, you'd cut the middle apple in half and then he'd get an apple and a half twice a day. :)

[eyelostit]

I know after I changed Niki's diet with DCO and adding some veg's her BG went down then up, the DCO never worked for us, why I have no idea....so as I worked with her diet adding veg's and pulling back on the dry dog food and got her in a (whats normal :confused:) range of 120-180, i went from 14 and 9 units, then 12-8, still go hi's and lows, so when i changed to just homecooked it went lower then with excesive highs of 300 being too much insulin. Of course this was going on after I got to the boards and had to work with her diet, as she just cannot do the norm of 12 hr feedings with a little biscuit in between. So she finally was ok with 9 1/2 units 2 X day.

But she has to have some veg's and oats or rice at 2-3 hrs then again at 4-6 hrs, if not I will get a high of 276 -300+

So lately I changed her food from her turk-veg-oats and bought some Nutro light, I was prev using the Nutro Senior, I got confused when I bought the food, so apparently it really is lite dog food, so Niki has been going to low for my comfort, so i've been giving more veg and oats, anyway, besides that being she was doing fine with the Nutro Senior, i still had to give her a treat of 2 tablespoons of brocolli and 2 T oats and about 5 kibble after 2-3 hrs

I seen you decreased the insulin because of the severe lows, without me going back to review Kill's history, did you decrease the insulin when you changed the diet after a few days? I am only asking because Niki's BG will change in 1 day, I don't have to take 4 days to a week to see if things level out.

Niki's BG really went lower as i started homecooking. Insulin kicks in at 1 1/2 to 2 hrs keeps kicking in till about 6 hrs then a very slow decrease to the 12 hr period.

Now I am dealing with lows, i went out today and wasn't there for her 4-6 hr snack and I get a 276.

I fed her earlier and now she is looking at me, so I better check her.

the matching of insulin and food can be really frustrating especailly with the lows, one thing i did do was give her 1/2 crushed up saltine with her food at times

You could put 2 saltines in Kill's food for a quick carb.

Well I hope things are better today, till next time

[We Hope]

Dolly,

Niki could be a spokesdog for NPH insulin:

http://images.wikia.com/petdiabetes/images/b/ba/NPHtap.gif

Time Activity Profile NPH Insulin

Here you see it getting started at the 1-2 hour mark, and peaking (when it works hardest) between 4-6 hours, then starting to slowly fade.

Insulin kicks in at 1 1/2 to 2 hrs keeps kicking in till about 6 hrs then a very slow decrease to the 12 hr period.

There were quite a few people at the other board using NPH who had to give a bit of food or a snack when you give one of yours--when the NPH insulin is peaking--and for the same reason; their dog was going a bit too low at that peak time.

What's normal blood glucose for dogs who don't have diabetes?

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/nv.html

GLUCOSE 67 - 125 mg/dL

[eyelostit]

Yes, that does look like how her insulin works, but that is using homecooked with lil dry dog food.

But if I fed all dry food or when i used DCO, up she goes 300+ that was on 2 C each meal using 14-9 units. Then after 3 years of listening to the AH vet she starts to go blind (no wonder) and now has been blind for 2 yrs.

I never could get her in a good range until i decrease the dry and added veg's, oats turkey etc.

The old vet just kept uping her insulin instead of figuring out why her BG was so high, I HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT, that B of a vet!!

At least now I have a vet who understands what I am doing, but they still preach the 12 hrs food and shot and no treats at first when diag, so this is not necessarly so with all dogs, and the vets don't get it.

So I only got her regulated with my homecooked and her snacks, the homecooked is not so bad, I usually fry up or bake two those 1lb's of turkey logs, put 2 paks of the broc in a food processor, and the oat or brown rice I make 2 cups I boil or nuke, but its not like I have to do this everyday being I use less turkey than the broc, and only about 1/3 C of oats or rice.

Like today I just had to make oats, I'm set for 3 + days with the turkey and broc being I did that yesterday.

Of course this is hard on people with larger dogs, more food and gets pricey.:(

Only other way as I was trying differnt foods about 1 1/2 years ago was using 3/4 C of Nutro Senior and 1/2 C of turkey, I got readings of 275 to a low of 160 at times, but that was not constant, but being her BG was getting better, I tried the vegs etc. So I just kept trying & had to be patient :eek:

My one mistake years ago was thinking I had to cook the brocolli, so she got less broc and no wonder she spiked, Ah!! as you go on you learn :rolleyes:

I wonder with people who have the large dogs do they really need to chop up the veg's that are frozen aren't they par boiled before they are frozen, I think alot of people hold back on homecooking if they think they have to chop up food and do all that, that makes it tiresome for people, especially those that work have kids to take care of etc, I mean a large dog could chew that food with a snap!!

Don't we wish it could be easy, some do good with just dry some don't, but ah how we love our dogs.

[bowens2]

When I read the ingredients in Monk's food (Hills RD) it sounds terrible but it sure works for him. I thought about changing his food and his insulin but besides that one bout of pancreatitis he does so well so I think I will leave him alone for right now even though the Lantus is so expensive compared to other insulins.