Capt. Morgan and diabetes

[JAndrews]

Hi everyone, I have a Rotty approx 6 yrs, hes lost 20 lbs now weighing in at 146 ish, he has been blessed with several problems including diabetes for nearly a yr. Its very hard to regulate as many of you already know. I am concerned now b/c he has cataracts and soon we may be getting him the surgery to remove them. I feed him WD hills 2 1/2 cup 2 x day, approx 6a and 6p ish, it seems his levels cont to be high, his last fructose test was 500+, he doesn't care much for the food so we spice it up with fat free yogart, canned veges, ck broth, gravey, etc.... of course only 1 upgrade per meal, never more, he gets 32 cc of N insulin BID. His vet wants him in for another BG test over 10-12 hrs ish, every time his insulin goes up. I just have to wonder/hope if we modify his diet may be we can improve / decrease/ maintain his levels. Any ideas???

[Shellie]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Welcome! Sounds like you've got your hands full there! BIG DOG! lol I'll leave the advice to the experienced folks here since I'm still relatively new but I know they'll probably ask you for more specifics like home testing and what his last curves looked like.

You'll get some great help here! Welcome again!

Shell and Hank

[jesse girl]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

yes a very big boy

if you could post some recent curves that might be helpful and dosing at the time of each curve

[JAndrews]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

hey thanks for the remarks, hes lost wt. but yes he is a biggie, one nickname of many he has. I have never done a BG curve, the vet has a few times, after reading here I think I will the next time I get a full day off to be with him and follow him with a bowl to catch some urine. that should be fun. has many people tried baby food to spice up WD? I think the yogart I give him is too high in sugars. he also gets joint supplements daily.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Do you test his blood sugar at home?

What do his curves look like?

I have seen quite a few rotties who are not the most stable diabetics. I'm not sure why that should be but there is a definite pattern over the years of that being the case.

Natalie

[JAndrews]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

I am willing to try home BG curves. Is urine as accurate as blood?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Urine testing gives only a rather vague idea of the blood sugar level and in particular tells you nothing at all about times when the blood sugar might be low. Glucose spills into the urine only when the blood sugar is higher than about 180.

You can find videos on how to home test blood sugar at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.htm.

And I would recommend a OneTouch Ultra meter and an Accuchek Softclix or Multiclix lancing device.

In your dog's case, there's a good chance he has an elbow callous you could use to draw the little drop of blood. There are a couple of videos of people using that spot on the site mentioned above.

With an elbow callous, you probably would need to use the lance by hand rather than using a clicker as the skin is thick. The lances that come with the Softclix / Multiclix always worked well for us.

Some of the lances that come with the meters are just too thin to get a good drop of blood. You want 25 gauge or so.

If the vet has done curves, request copies of them and post the results here.

We can take a look and see how well his food and insulin have been matched and how consistent his blood sugar is.

We can tell a lot by looking at his curves so it would be very helpful to have the results of any that have been done.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Hi! I have a question or two. When you say the vet plans to test Captain Morgan's BGs, will that be a blood glucose curve test? that is, measuring blood glucose levels every two hours or so, through the day?

That sort of testing is a really good way to determine what current insulin dose should be. I notice you said the current dose is 32 cc, but believe you PROBABLY mean, it's 32 UNITS of N(PH) insulin. NPH insulins come in a concentration of 100 units per milliliter (ml). One ml is the same as one cc. Typically, the N(PH) insulin comes in 10-ml vials. So you'd have to be giving 3.2 VIALS of insulin twice daily, to be giving 32 cc (!) And since a vial holds 1000 units, you'd be giving something like 32,000 UNITS per injection. I do feel quite sure you're not actually doing that ;-)

I mention this because there are times when it's important to have the terminology something like close to right, to avoid confusion, when talking to vets - or perhaps also to forum members here.

To call it "cc" when you actually mean units is a VERY common error among newcomers. So don't feel bad! Especially, don't feel bad because it's easy enough to re-learn this one! You can just think of the markings on the syringes you use as representing units, and you're in business.

About yogurt, the sugar it has (since you're giving, I gather, plain, no-fat yogurt) - is natural milk-sugar, and probably won't much affect Captain Morgan's BG (blood glucose) levels, so I wouldn't be afraid to give it to him in small amounts. It is so good as a probiotic, assisting with digestion, and promoting healthy bacteria in the gut. And it's not usual to give very much - not much is needed to perform the required service! So how much DO you give?

Back to terminology again - "BG" is an abbreviation for blood glucose, which means it's the blood, not the urine, which is tested for glucose levels. You CAN also test the urine for glucose levels, but the results you get from those tests aren't anything like as specific nor timely as the ones you get from testing the blood for glucose levels.

Which also means, if you would LIKE to tackle learning to test Captain Morgan's BG levels yourself (let us know when you feel ready to try it, and we'll help you learn) - you won't have to chase the dog around the yard, holding a soup ladle, or whatever!

I've seen people say various things about joint supplements and the possible effects on BGs. Maybe they have some effect; if so, learning to measure the BGs yourself would help you determine what the effects are for Captain Morgan. I'd think that Rottie build could REALLY do with the help of those joint supplements. There might also be formulations that don't much boost BG levels, as well as some that do

Please ask any question, any time! And a Big, Fat Welcome to you!

Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:29:48 (PDT)

[AZPitasmom]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

I am no expert, but I looked into the w/d because my vet seemed to think that it was the best thing for Pita. Here is what I found - 12% fiber (good) but 51% carbs. Like a said, I'm no expert but I have a co-worker who is Type I diabetic and I learned one thing from her - high carbs are not a good thing.
I also talked to a couple people with diabetic dogs who agreed that there are probably other things that would be better for Capt. Morgan. Just a thought.
PS - I am a huge Rottie fan - no pun intended.

[JAndrews]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

morgan had his BG checked at the vet.

6:55 = 254 NPH 32u

9:00 = 319

11:15 = 359

1:00 = 384

3:00 = 422

Well, no surprise the units were increased to 35 BID. I changed his diet a bit. Hills W/D with cottage cheese or baby food/veges. He seems to like it. At this point, I will purchase a glucose meter and test him this wkend and see what happens. At least there is no change in his behaviors with the increase in insulin.

[CarolW]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Delighted you are planning to test blood glucose levels at home. By the way, the OneTouch Ultra meter - in its current model - is called a OneTouch Ultra2. I agree with Natalie; that's the most reliable and consistent of (human) meters to use. I used one with Kumbi for most of his 3.5 years as a diabetic, before he died - of cancer, not diabetes.

If you have questions about testing over the weekend, by all means, bring them here; somebody will be around to help, surely!

Wishing you and Capt. Morgan a ton of luck!
Hey, that wasn't a bad curve at all!

I do rather frown on raising by 3 units all at once - that's SIX full units a day! Doesn't really give your dog time to learn how to use that much insulin all at once! But see how it goes.

Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:48:31 (PDT)

[Shellie]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

I think you'll do much better at managing things once you start home testing. Will warn you tho...it can be tricky at first. Everyone makes it look SO easy! LOL And it is....once you get the hang of it. Hoping you'll just whizbang and be great from the start but if not...don't get too frustrated. Like all this stuff...it takes time.

And even with my limited experience..it does seem like a lot to go up in one shot. Perhaps ask the vet again?

Good luck and hugs!

Shell and Hank

[flemardo]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

I'll tell you the advice my vet gave me, still haven't followed it myself yet though, canned pumpkin. My vet with his own diabetic dog said that dogs and cats seem to enjoy pumpkin, it acts a low carb filler to give him a full feeling and the fiber in it is suppose to slow digestion of food into glucose.

[SandyL]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Welcome!

Lol lots of people on here add canned pumpkin to their babies diets!! Don't use the pumpkin for pies!!! Use the natural pumpkin!

I tried it when I needed to add fiber to Tiggys diet.... She turned her nose up and wouldn't have a thing to do with it .

Again, welcome and be prepared for information overload!! . It WILL get easier, we've all been there!!

Sandy

[Shellie]

Re: Capt. Morgan and diabetes

Welcome!

Lol lots of people on here add canned pumpkin to their babies diets!! Don't use the pumpkin for pies!!! Use the natural pumpkin!

I tried it when I needed to add fiber to Tiggys diet.... She turned her nose up and wouldn't have a thing to do with it .

Again, welcome and be prepared for information overload!! . It WILL get easier, we've all been there!!

Sandy

Can always count on either Tiggy or Hank to say bleck to something! LOL I haven't tried the pumpkin but I have heard REALLY good things about it! I didn't get any since I had way too much healthy stuff in my cart already today when I went shopping.