Saying Goodbye

[DutchDad]

Our Dog Dutch 11 year old lab mix 60 lbs.

was diagnosed in February of this past year. At the time she had all the symptoms and she had sever muscle loss in her back legs. To the point that she could not walk without help. We tried WD but she would not eat it. Then we tried EVO Weight Management which she has been on since that time. For the first few months she put her weight back on and was doing OK with two shots of Humulin N 12 units each day. After the first few months she would not eat in the morning so we had been doing what we could to get her to eat. If she would not eat she did not get her shot. This went off and on for awhile and now she has lost a lot of weight and BG is up again. We have increased her insulin to 14 units twice a day and we are feeding her more food with some incentives for her to eat.

We are looking for some advice to help her gain some quality weight while still controlling her BG.

[momofdecker]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

Our Dog Dutch 11 year old lab mix 60 lbs.

was diagnosed in February of this past year. At the time she had all the symptoms and she had sever muscle loss in her back legs. To the point that she could not walk without help. We tried WD but she would not eat it. Then we tried EVO Weight Management which she has been on since that time. For the first few months she put her weight back on and was doing OK with two shots of Humulin N 12 units each day. After the first few months she would not eat in the morning so we had been doing what we could to get her to eat. If she would not eat she did not get her shot. This went off and on for awhile and now she has lost a lot of weight and BG is up again. We have increased her insulin to 14 units twice a day and we are feeding her more food with some incentives for her to eat.

We are looking for some advice to help her gain some quality weight while still controlling her BG.

Hello and welcome to you and Dutch. I'm sorry to hear that she had such struggles with her back legs. Hoping the weakness has resolved over time.

Most folks around here subscribe to the philosophy that any food a dog will eat will trump a diabetic friendly diet any day. Thus, if Dutch is not eating prescription or other diabetic friendly food, try to find a food she will eat. There is a thread on this site you can search for, "your dog's diet, insulin and meter used" it may give you some reference as to what other folks are feeding their diabetic dogs as the list does vary greatly. As long as the consistency is there in terms of feeding times and amount, it may help get some weight back on her. In terms of insulin shots, many say that 1/4 dose if a dog does not eat or a dog only eats 1/4 of food. 1/2 dose if 1/2 food is eaten, etc... My boy is a good eater but I've had to fast him a couple of times for blood work and the 1/4 dose worked really well for him without any food.

There are a few others on here who have picky eaters. I'm sure they will be along and will be able to offer lots of tips on how to entice a dog to eat.

Are you home testing at all? Do you have any curves that you've done or perhaps from the vets that you could share? Not sure where you are from, but if you have a Wal-Mart near by you can buy the generic form of NPH for around $25.00.

You've found a great resource here -again, welcome aboard! Holli

[Cebe]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

My dog has food allergies, so my vet told me just to keep her on food that works for her and I don't worry too much about it.

FYI, I have a black lab mix who is about 65-9lbs. She eats Pinnacle trout and sweet potato and seems to do pretty well on it to keep her allergies under control. I could probably stand to add some fiber to her diet, but I haven't figured out how i want to do that yet.

Sometimes, toward the end of the bag of kibble, Zoe gets less interested in the food. Because of that, I started adding a salmon topper to her food and now she eats it right on up.

Have you ruled out pancreatitis? Also, when Dutchess doesn't eat, you still give her a small dose of insulin correct? I believe the recommendation is 1/4 dose when they don't eat to cover their basic insulin needs.

I had a dog named Dutchess when I was little. She was sweet.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

I would change the way you handle her refusing to eat and insulin injections.

Dogs can in fact have some insulin even if they don't eat any food at all. The body has both "basal" (no food) and "bolus" insulin needs. Most dogs can have at least one quarter of their normal with-food dose and some can use as much as half of the usual dose.

It's usually best to start on the low side and see how she does and then increase the no-food dose if need be.

Otherwise, you have her blood sugar bouncing up and down, which, besides being uncomfortable, constantly destroys a decent regulation and also discourages her willingness to eat because of the high blood sugar.

A lot of vets are not aware that some insulin can be given with no food. In part because they probably don't have a lot of clients who test their dog's blood sugar at home so they take the uber-safe but very unproductive route of decreeing no insulin if no food is eaten.

The other thing is that a lot of dogs, for whatever reason, just don't like to eat in the morning - never the evening it seems, always the morning - if after a reasonable amount of time you absolutely cannot get them used to twice daily food, it's possible to go with just one meal a a day, giving them a small "basal" dose of insulin and no food in the morning and then a larger basal+bolus dose of insulin with their dinner, which would be a big meal to provide all needed calories.

Without insulin, the food is just washing out of the system and she won't be able to gain weight.

If you're not testing blood sugar at home, that's the other thing I would recommend starting right away. Even if the vet doesn't want you to. These customized regimines are infinitely easier and safer to accomplish if you test blood sugar at home.

Natalie

Our Dog Dutch 11 year old lab mix 60 lbs.

was diagnosed in February of this past year. At the time she had all the symptoms and she had sever muscle loss in her back legs. To the point that she could not walk without help. We tried WD but she would not eat it. Then we tried EVO Weight Management which she has been on since that time. For the first few months she put her weight back on and was doing OK with two shots of Humulin N 12 units each day. After the first few months she would not eat in the morning so we had been doing what we could to get her to eat. If she would not eat she did not get her shot. This went off and on for awhile and now she has lost a lot of weight and BG is up again. We have increased her insulin to 14 units twice a day and we are feeding her more food with some incentives for her to eat.

We are looking for some advice to help her gain some quality weight while still controlling her BG.

[Cebe]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

I missed the part about morning eating. To add to what Natalie said, try some exercise in the morning. Some dogs, like people don't like to eat first thing in the morning and need to wake up and develop an appetite. A little excersize can help get the juices flowing.

[Shellie]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

Hi and welcome! I'm one of the moms who has a picky eater! LOL If Dutchess doesn't have allergies or pancreatitis, then feeding whatever she'll eat is perfectly ok. To get some ideas on food, you can go to www.dogfoodadvisor.com ...you'll learn a bit about nutrition and pick up some good choices in food to try.

My Hank isn't a morning eater either unless he gets his exercise so he gets his morning walk even before I attempt to feed him. Even at night, he likes a walk first. Seems to get him going.

I have also noticed that sometimes you can 'prime the pump' by giving them a little bit of an appetizer. Usually something they really like such as cheese. I take about a half inch square of cheddar cheese and give him small bits of that to get him going. He'll eat better after I do that. I also sneak his pills into the cheese! lol

Warming the food, adding water to make a gravy, adding a topper of some kind, sprinkling parmesan cheese on top, adding low fat cottage cheese or yogurt, tuna water added...all these things can be done to make any food more enticing to a non-interested pup.

Mine generally wants the walk, the appetizer and a large variety of different foods in order to stay interested. He'd go days on half rations if I kept him on the same thing. It's taken me nearly a year to figure it out but you'll learn.

Getting them to eat...and eat comfortably and relaxed is important to a diabetic. You stressing over it will make the dog anxious and that doesn't help appetite at all. There are also medications you can try from your vet to stimulate appetite but I think those should be last resort if nothing else you try works.

Let us know how it goes...we always have more ideas for you to try! Good luck! Hugs!

[DutchDad]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. We have been adding some gravy to her EVO and she is eating better. She seems to have a bit more pep to her step.

We will try some of the advice to get her to eat. And yes our vet told us no insulin if she does not eat so we have been following that and her BG went through the roof.

Also we have tried several times to test at home but I cannot seem to get any blood (Unless I am clipping nails) to consistently get a good reading. It's frustrating. I dont know what the vet does. They take her in the back room when they test her.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

what areas have you tried to test are you using a lance device and what type do you have what size lancet are you using

if your dog is giving you the opportunity to test with little problem then you should eventually be able to accomplish the task of home testing

[Cebe]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

Definitely get larger lancets. It makes a difference.

Also, in your case I highly recommend using the carpal pad, which is the unused foot pad above the paw. For my Zoe who is of a similar size, I ask her to get up on an easy chair and I sit on the footrest and she will lay a bit on her side, making it easier to see the pad. I massage is a little to get the blood flowing and then I poke her with a lancet. I don't use a clicker device, just hand poke. And squeeze and there's my drop of blood. Of course I already have the meter ready. I really find this very easy with my lab mix and I recommend giving it a try.

[DutchDad]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

thanks I am going to give that whirl tonight

[CraigM]

Re: Dutchess - advice to gain weight

Definitely get larger lancets. It makes a difference.

Just to make sure, larger (thicker) lancets have lower numbers on the box. I like to use either 26 or 25 gauge lancets, the more common 30 and 31 gauge lancets seem to be too thin for me to get a good droplet.

I think 26 gauge lancets are common enough to find at many pharmacies, but I've had to order the 25 gauge ones because there isn't much demand for them.

[DutchDad]

Saying Goodbye

I signed up for this forum when our dog Dutchess was diagnosed in February of 2012 with diabetes. I have only posted a few times but I read through the wealth of information on here just about everyday. We tried several of the suggestions that we read on here and Dutch was holding on strong for a good long time. Eventually her body started to give up on her. She had lost a lot of weight despite what we fed her and we could not keep her sugar regulated. She was very weak in the hind legs and most days could not climb the steps to come back in the house. I am sorry to say that we had to say goodbye earlier this week.

She was my first dog and I miss her very much. She died in our arms with her head on my lap as we talked her through it. It was very difficult. She was having a good day however, lately good days were separated by several bad days. I wanted to post a thank you on this forum for those of you who continue to post positive things and treatments for dogs with this disease. We could not have made the year without you.

[jesse girl]

Re: Saying Goodbye

its not an easy thing to do to let are friends pass but a necessary release so they do not suffer it does take courage and dutchess being your first. i am sure it was very difficult she is your first love on this plain of companionship and very special

we wish they could be here for so much longer but thats not how this world works

she has a new world now free of the struggles of this plain a new reality that someday you and dutchess will be reunited in that beautiful place

[Linda1]

Re: Saying Goodbye

I'm so sorry. Run free sweet Dutchess.

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Saying Goodbye

Very sorry for your loss. Thankful that you could be there with her.