Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

[lukidog]

My dog was diagnosed 2 weeks ago with Pancreatitis, Diabetes, and probably Cushings. She was in a specialty hospital in Charleston SC for 3 days (we were traveling), she wouldn't eat for them. She came home, ate some but then the Pancreatitis got bad again and she was hospitalized at home (TN) for 5 days. Still wouldn't eat for them.

She's been home 2 days and still won't eat. So it's been at least a week and I can't seem to interest her at mealtime. She does seem interested at different times of the day, but the vet says only 2 meals, 12 hours apart.

When she was hospitalized at home last week, her liver enzymes were terribly high, 2500+ for ALT, 225 for Bile Acids. They said the pancreatitis caused the liver enzymes to go so high because when she was hospitalized the previous week, her liver tests were just a little high.

So I'm dealing with High Liver Enzymes, Diabetes, Pancreatitis, probably Cushings (will test after things normalize a bit) and NOT EATING!!!

I've tried: Hills ID Low Fat, Royal Canin Low Fat for Gastro, EN, all in canned and dry formulas. Also scrambled egg and rice with chicken broth. Tried adding broth to the dog food also. Any suggestions?

She's on several meds: Metronidzole, Amoxicillin, Denamarin, acid reducer, and Vetsulin. Putting her back on Mertazapine today as an appetite stimulant.

She perks up when I take her for walks, when company comes, etc. Otherwise, she lays around the house and has no interest in anything. She's 9 years old and until this last month, was very healthy. Thanks for any help you can give me.
Mary

[jesse girl]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

oh my that is quite a bit on the plate

just to give some perspective my jesse only eats one meal a day and gets 3 shots so there is flexibility to the specific situation than can affect the normal routine on how to treat this disease

one of the reasons we went to one meal because jesse had a sever case of pancreatitis now you probably wont find anybody agreeing with this method and more smaller meals is the normal procedure

my thought and this is how its treated early is to give the pancreas a break with no food for a period of time with just iv fluids . i just carried that thought with the management of that challenge and has worked well with no flareups or reassurance. now it is one larger meal but i believe the pancreas gets a break from digestion where more smaller meals may not give the pancreas a break . just my thought on that .

now if you can find a time your pup will eat and give insulin that would be great . if its only one time a day thats ok . we are able to give a quarter of the dose that you could give with food 12 hours later and no food . home testing would greatly help with this method because you can adjust the dose as needed and how much food is consumed and where blood sugar is at that time .

as things improve you maybe able to reset the 12 and 12 routine which works very well for many . you really do need to home test in this situation just so you can figure what you can and cant do . this is not a regulation process . your just trying to get your pup out of that critical zone .

now food they say its good to be low in fat but you may want something with less fiber which is not as diabetic friendly so it can be contradictory with the 2 challenge . more fiber can create more digestion and strain on the pancreas but all fiber is not built equally. i switched my jesse to a partially raw diet . the meat is lean but has some fat but i believe raw fat does not have the same impact as cook fat on digestion.

all her food is pulverized to more of a wet food consistency with no big piece to further help digestion .

thats kind of how you want to think something easy to digest .

first and foremost find a time your pup will eat if its just one time and small that maybe good . you already inflamed the pancreas twice . give some insulin but you do need to test blood sugar at home to really manage the situation because your in the dark . a dog not feeling well is easy to test because there is little fight in them .

now as far as the vet sometimes you have to do things the vet does not agree with because of the situation is desperate and you just dont have time to slowly try to transition to the schedule of the vet . you can keep them in the loop and if you want to keep the relationship that is important .

[k9diabetes]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Are you giving her some insulin?

How is her blood sugar?

I personally think small amounts of food throughout the day would be better than what you have going now if that's something you can do. That 12-hour regimen is for an otherwise healthy dog, not one who hasn't eaten significantly in a week.

Are you checking for ketones?

Natalie

[momofdecker]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Welcome to you and your pup. Sorry there is so much going on.

My boy had pancreatitis but must have had a stronger love of food because getting him to eat was never an issue. Keeping him from eating our other dog's food, however, LOL... Below are some ideas others have offered over time...

Have you tried drizzling the liquid from canned tuna packed in water (not oil) over some dry kibble? Or even soaking the dry kibble in water so it's good and soggy?

Maybe try mixing in non fat yogurt or cottage cheese. Mix in a hard boiled egg, pieces of boiled shredded chicken or turkey. Some have tried meat flavored baby food.

My take on the 12 hour feeding schedule - feeding during off times may not be the best mix for controlling diabetes, but if you have a dog who is not eating, that's not a good mix either. Given the pancreatitis, it makes sense to let your dog guide you in letting you know when it's time to eat. At least in the beginning. If you can get past the pancreatitis you might be able to slowly over time adjust back to a 12 hour feeding schedule.

Wishing you both the best in this new journey of yours.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

welcome. I am wondering how the insulin is being dosed if she isn't eating. Some vets will have you skip the dose completely, but most of us find we can give 1/4 the usual dose. that might be different with Vetsulin as I believe it has a fast acting component.

It would be helpful if you could home test. We could offer much more specific guidance with bg numbers. if you are up to it we can coach you through it.

Can you tell us her weight and insulin dosage?

Tara

[amydunn19]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Hi and welcome! My Maggie has had horrible pancreatitis flare-ups. Honestly, I think maybe the vet is rushing your dog back to food a little quickly. Think of the worst stomach bug you ever had - the last thing you want or need is food until your system settles back down. I think pancreatitis is like that feeling multiplied by 1000. The pancreas is very inflamed and if you try to force the issue too soon, then it will flare again.

Some dogs don't recover very fast. Mine is one of those. The vets at the ER clinic told me during her worst flareup that she probably wouldn't make it. Her liver values were awful and she would not even lift her head for them. They took me in to see her, probably to talk me into putting her out of her misery, and she jumped up wagging her tail. I said hmm, she looks like she is not ready to give up yet. That was about 5 1/2 years ago. It has not been easy but her life has been pretty good once we found a food she would eat and not throw up.

After a flare-up, I would feed very small meals of boiled chicken(chopped up) and homemade broth - you might add some rice. I would drop the idea of just two meals a day. If you can get in four small meals until you see improvement. Kibble is very hard to digest so I would leave it off. This pancreatitis is a crisis and you need to get past it before you try to get to the 2 meal a day 12 hours apart schedule. This may take a few weeks.

If there is vomiting at all, ask for cerenia - it is a really good drug for it. I used it as a preventative if I felt like it was coming on. We used pepcid before meals. She might also recover a little quicker with a pain med like tramadol.

There is no point to testing for cushings until you get her regulated. There are so many false positives in an unregulated diabetic. Unless she looks and acts textbook cushings, then I wouldn't worry about it anytime soon. (Pot belly, thin or balding hair, ravenous hunger). Many times, cushings symptoms resolve when regulation happens - the symptoms of diabetes and cushings are similar.

[Judi]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Hi Mary, you guys have had a time. My Jenny has cushings and diabetes and had her bout with pancreatitis a month ago. Since then I've been crock potting chicken, wild rice and green beans. I add some pure pumpkin too. (not heated lol)

She eats this stuff. The dog food just looks unappealing now.

We took her off the pain meds too early after her bout of pancreatitis so I am also really chopping the food up tiny before heating and serving.

I never ever thought I would cook for my dog but I can handle a crock pot. I weigh her meals.

My vet gave me lots of pain meds so if an attack starts again I can give her a dose without running to the doggy ER.

be careful of chicken broth, a lot of it has onion in it

[lukidog]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

I just read through all the suggestions and want to thank you all.

To answer a couple questions - Paddington is about 21 to 22 pounds right now. She was 28 a month ago so she's lost a lot.

The appetite stimulant worked well and she was hungry for her dinner. She ate 1/3 cup of EN kibble warmed in the microwave. That was 3.5 hours ago and she's kept it down.

I gave her the full dose of Vetsulin which is 5 units. If she doesn't eat, the vet has told me to give her 3 units because they said she still needs the insulin whether she eats or not.

Her glucose levels were fairly stable while at the vets, but I haven't checked since she came home Tuesday night. I just got the AlphaTrack glucometer and will probably try it tomorrow. She is getting sick of me give her meds all the time so I'm not anxious to test her blood a lot.

I do have Tramadol left over from the first hospitalization. I think I'll give her one tomorrow. She doesn't act like she's in pain, but perhaps she is.

I can't remember any of the other questions and I don't know how to read back to the earlier posts, so this will do it for now. Again, thanks for the help and I'll probably become a regular here.
Mary

[Eddie]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Hello and welcome
We also have an extra digestive issue to deal with and it means we don't stick rigorously to the 2x feeding at 12 hour intervals.

Our dog has to eat a lot of food to maintain his weight and he does best if we split each meal into two. We inject with the first one and then follow it up about 2 hours later with more food. It isn't text book but it seems to work ok for us.

I'm not suggesting that that particular regime would be good for you but just showing that you can do ok with non-standard mealtimes if there is some reason why you need to.

At one stage to help Eddie's digestion I used to pour boiling water over his kibble then let it cool a bit and feed it while it was still warm. It was loads softer than dry and it smelt quite nice (if you like that kind of thing!) and he seemed to like the gravy effect of all the water.
Hope she eats better today
Antonia

[lukidog]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Thanks, Antonia. Paddington is used to eating 4 small meals per day so perhaps this smaller feeding 2 hours after injection would work for her as well. At least until we get settled in and have a tummy that is feeling better.

She ate some scrambled egg with lots of interest but as soon as I added some canned food that I had added water to and microwaved, she turned her nose up. I told her it was a Sausage Breakfast Burrito - looked like one!

Got her meds done except Amox - the little devil fought me on that one even with 4 tries! I quit trying and will give it to her now.

Mary

[slopeside]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

welcome and you found a FANTASTIC place to get help....

experience with these doggie issues on here has been WAY more helpful than my vet. everyone here has been a huge help. take their advice, use what the vet says as a guideline... unfortunately, most vets deal with these issue per visit... we deal with them daily, hourly, and min by min.

just b/c society labels it people food doesn't give it proper meaning. "dog food" is man made packaged food. if an egg works, cooked chicken, or any other food you may have to prepare go for it!~ folks here will help guide you to the right foods for your dogs medical issue... no 2 dogs are the same but knowledge is key and i'll take any and all suggestions i get here. i started having to make zulu's food, then she started feeling better and was very happy with her diabetic dry food. currently, we are on vacation with her and she won't eat normal. maybe your pup just needs to get situated back home and on a normal routine and that might help too?

you have LOTs of meds and new things going on, listen to your dog. if he wants to eat at different times than WE need to adjust to their needs.. yes 12 hrs apart but as i have found sometimes like jessie girl you find what works and go outside the norm...

glucose testing isn't easy. we have the alphatrec2. your dog and you will be VERY happy once you do. home testing is very helpful.

my vet is great, however K9diabetes.com is the BEST!~

best wishes this whirlwind will slow down!~

[lukidog]

Absolutely nothing to eat between meals??

My 9-year-old Paddington was diagnosed with diabetes about 6 weeks ago. After a serious bout of Pancreatitis and very high liver enzymes, she is doing very well now. Eating well with no signs of pancreatitis and her liver values are almost normal. We'll test again next week.

My question is in regard to her meals. Our vet has said that she must eat 2 meals a day, 12 hours apart, with nothing in between, not even a carrrot or celery or other 'healthy' snack. This is hard on her because she has always eaten 3 smaller meals a day, with a snack after potty, before bedtime, etc.

She takes 5 units of Vetsulin morning and night after her meals and although I've had a lot of trouble testing her blood, when I do get a successful test her BG numbers have seemed reasonable.

Does everyone adhere to the 'no eating between meals' rule?

Thanks,
Mary

[ceruleanblue]

Re: Absolutely nothing to eat between meals??

Welcome! Can you tell us a little more about your dog? Breed, weight, meter you're testing with, what numbers you've been getting?

Some people give small snacks of vegetables or boiled chicken. It really depends on the dog. Most people find that those things don't really affect BG, but every dog is different. You would have to test for yourself.

[CraigM]

Re: Help. Newly diagnosed, not eating at all.

Combined your new post into your existing thread so we can keep all your info in one location.

My Annie seldom gets anything outside of her two meals. The exception for her is that I might give her a frozen green bean as a treat after a blood test. A Milk Bone type of treat would cause her blood glucose to climb, so it's a no-no for her.

Craig

[Charlie's mom]

Re: Absolutely nothing to eat between meals??

We are 'bad' in that we give our 13 year old baby treats, but only teeny pieces. We usually give a piece of Blue jerky(a little bigger than a pea), or a piece of carrot. Carrots are high in natural sugar so you may want watch to see if they impact the blood glucose of your baby.

Welcome to the forum