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-   -   Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=808)

frijole 05-16-2009 02:07 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy

Being lethargic and sleeping alot is common during loading because lysodren is a strong drug. I know my dog tends to sleep more on the days she gets it even after having been on it 3 yrs. So just being tired would not have me worried.

Signs of loading are reduced appetite and/or water consumption. Have there been any changes there yet?

Refresh my memory if you don't mind. What was her original ACTH number? Her first round of loading was for how many days? and then what was the next ACTH number? I'm trying to get a feel for how long it has been and how her body is reacting to the dosage.

When you started loading the 2nd time did you increase the dosage at all or did you stick with the same dosage?

Thanks.
Kim

Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 02:17 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Kim,

No changes with the food and water/peeing. No diarrhea.

She first started loading and on the 6th day he tested her and it was 15. Took almost a week because the test was shipped out on a Friday and we didnt get the test back til Wednesday. We started her back up again same dose of 200mg per day Thursday. That was May 7th (that we started back up) so its been a week and 2 days. I just wanted to make sure being weak and tired wasn't one of the signs. I have to feed her tonight yet before bed so I will have another chance to monitor her eating. Would I give her prednisone in this instance or is that for only when the lysodren went too far?

Thanks for responding so quick.

Tammy

stardeb55 05-16-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy, you only want to give pred, if Kallie has one or more of the following symptoms, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or extreme lethargy. If you give pred, you must wait at least 24 hours after the pred before doing a stim, as the pred will read as cortisol, & give you a falsely elevated result. One last thing about the timing of a stim, lyso reaches it peak in the body at about 48 hours after the dose, so ideally, you would want to stim as close to the 48 hr. mark as possible.

Debbie

Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 02:56 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Thanks Debbie!

Go to know. I didn't know that about the prednisone and the stim test. I think her last test was only 24 hours later.

Is extreme lethargy when they don't seem like they want to wake up or can't really walk?? Kallie is just sleepy, but if I get her up she walks around and gets a drink, goes poty and goes back to bed. She does seem a little sick - real warm and shakey, but she gets up to do the necessary.

Thanks so much, I feel a little better about the situation.

Tammy and Kallie

frijole 05-16-2009 02:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy,

No problem... it was luck as I was out of town all day today and just got home and checked in.

Prednisone during the loading phase is for use in emergency namely too much lysodren. (vomiting and diarrhea) Prednisone mimics cortisol so I would NOT give during loading. Some vets actually recommend it but I personally do not prefer this approach because it makes spotting signs of loading HARDER.

Being tired, stomach growling and awful GAS are all typical during loading just so you know. :p

I am not sure where you started (cortisol level) but after 6 days 15 is still not close to being loaded so it does not surprise me that you are still loading. Some dogs require higher dosages than others. My dog took almost 3 months to load (that does NOT include the days when we were waiting for the results) and each time we INCREASED the dosage. She is WAY over the recommended amount but all dogs are different and heck she has HELD that level without reloading for 3 yrs so it was worth the wait and getting it right.

My point is just to let you know there are lots of dogs that take longer than a week so don't fret. You might consider after 14 days (of 2nd load you are currently doing) retesting just to see how you are doing. It very well could be that you need a tad higher dosage. Remember you want to not only reach a cortisol level of between 1 and 5 but you also want to maintain that level so you never have to load again. ;):D

I think you are probably getting close so keep up the great work and keep asking questions. Been there and I know it is stressful. This group saved my sanity so I'm happy to pay it forward.

Hugs
Kim

Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 06:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Wow Kim that's quite the record for loading!!! That must have taken so much out of you. Thanks for sharing all you know with us new ones.

Thanks for everyones input. I feel much better. I was out to eat for a couple hours and was afraid of how Kallie might be when I got home but she was barking and tail up - she's almost acting normal (licking my husband - she'll do that for half an hour). Don't know if she has OCD or might that be another symptom of Cushings? Does anyone elses dog do that? She licks the floor if she can't like him. Drive's us up the wall!!!

Everyone have a good night!! And I'll be praying for all the doggies out there that need help tonight so they can have a good day tomorrow.

Tammy

frijole 05-17-2009 07:34 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy

I forgot about the licking thing. :) I cannot speak to any scientific reason - or tie it to cushings - perhaps others can? I can only tell you that my gal was always a licker, however, after being treated I remember posting about how she was like a canine vacuum cleaner licking the carpet while walking thru the house. I remember others had the same experience but I can't for the life of me remember if we concluded why this happened. :confused:

Kim

forscooter 05-17-2009 03:49 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy....

Kim is right....we have had quite a few lickers...especially carpet lickers...I don't think we ever did narrow it down.:confused: I think some dogs had allergy issues which sometimes can present with a lot of licking....and others we just never could figure it out.

Tammy, I had two dogs with Cushing's....Bailey is still with me. During loading, they were quieter than usual. And even after we started maintenance in the beginning, they would get what we scientifically termed "yuckies" anywhere from 24-36 hours after being given the dose. Lysodren loading causes, usually, a rapid decrease in cortisol. Cortisol can make a dog feel better in some respects, and in others, not so good. But a rapid decrease can just throw things off balance a bit for them....don't worry though bc they adjust much better than we do watching them!!:p

As for the lethargy...you will know it. It is more than just being tired...more than just sleepy. It is a weakness like you haven't seen before. Scooter went low on me a few times and I'll never forget the first. It was like it happened yesterday. That morning he wasn't eating well, seemed very tired, really not too interested in much of anything. I thought well, I guess he is just having an "off" day and I went to work. When I came home, 8 hours later, he met me at the door as always. BUT, then he sat right down. And then laid down. Not the usual barking greeting I always got. I stopped and looked at him. It was like someone sucked the life out of his eyes. There was nothing there. I was suspicious and I offered him cheese.....no dice. I offered him peanut butter....nothing. He stayed on the floor and just had this dull look.

So, I took some pred, smeared cream cheese on my finger and wiped it all on the back of his tongue. It took about 30-45 minutes, but he was up running around the house and ate all his dinner.

So, a low, should there be one, will come on over hours...you will see an increase in symptoms....and you will KNOW it bc you know Kallie better than anyone else.

The only other thing I can tell you is if in doubt, if something just seems wrong for Kallie, you can't hurt to test. You won't lose much ground and it is always safer to be safe than sorry. I know you don't want to stim all the time, but if your gut tells you to check, you probably should. No one can really tell without testing the numbers. As I said, you know Kallie better than anyone so listen to your gut. And we'll help your gut as much as possible!:)

Hang in there....it DOES get better!!! Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

Kallie'smom 05-18-2009 07:51 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Beth - Wow you had two with cushings, that must have been stressful. Did that just happen by chance? Sorry to hear you lost Scooter. How long did they have cushings?

Kallie sure has been having the "yuckies" the past 3 days. Hopefully that means she's done soon. She did eat a little slower today, but she has been coughing a little and kind of choking on her food so maybe that slowed her down. I'll see again at lunch. I will be talking to the vet this afternoon. I hope there isnt something else wrong with her. Her breath has been extra nasty lately. And with her kind of gagging/choking. Her teeth have been really bad the last few years. We were going to get them cleaned, but then my husband lost his job and out of work for 5 months! We looked back into it when he got a new job and did the blood tests and thats when we started checking into cushings. Hopefully if all goes well we will get her teeth cleaned after she is on maintenance. I am very worried about her mouth. I am scared to even look in there.

Thanks for the example of Scooter when he was lethargic. That really helped me realize/picture what it should be like.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Tammy and Kallie

Roxee'sDad 05-18-2009 02:40 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,
My Roxee was a floor licker too. She would just lay down and start licking the floor:( I thought she was liking the flavor. Seemed to have stopped when her stim results came back in the desired range.:)

Hope all continues to improve with Kallie.

John (Roxee's Dad)

Kallie'smom 05-18-2009 02:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
It would be so great if she quit after she is done loading and has normal levels. Seems like it got worse since last year. She always did lick my husband - more like the submissive lick the alpha male thing. The other dogs do it too but she is obnoxious!!

Tammy and Kallie

forscooter 05-18-2009 03:17 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,

I just got lucky I guess having two! Scooter was diagnosed first and then Bailey 6 weeks later. Scooter was so sick at the time that it was so obvious something was really wrong with him. Bailey not so much. So by the time I got done loading and stabilizing Scooter, I noticed Bailey drinking and peeing more and thought hhmmmm....they aren't related except through our hearts so it wasn't a genetic thing.

Scooter would have made his two-year mark this past February with Cushing's. I had to make the final decision the day after Christmas when he collapsed after a morning bath. Rushed him to the vet and found out his heart was very enlarged. He had multiple issues, severe allergies, severe arthritis, and this huge heart....and was really not having the best quality to his life. And I didn't want him to collapse like that when he would be all alone if I was at work and so I made the decision to let him go.

Bailey just celebrated his two-year anniversary. He is having some issues now but mostly related to his arthritis and hip dysplasia. So we just make every day special and I count my blessings!

If you see the slow down eating, that may be your sign. Both boys just hesitated for a millisecond which for them was unusual. My gut thought uh-oh. They loaded very very quickly and the vet thought I was nuts. But they were loaded! I was right. You don't want to go until Kallie is sick so if she hesitates again or seems to have a problem eating, I would take her to be checked. The teeth thing can sure complicate matters and I feel for you!!! I understand about balancing the expenses of all of this. We do the best we can. I am limited on what and how much I can do, so truly I understand. :)

Hang in there....loading is the pits but I know you can both do it!!!
Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

Kallie'smom 05-19-2009 06:09 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Kallie ate slower yesterday, and last night at 2:30 am she woke up trying to vomit. Nothing came out. She tried 3 times in about an hour. I gave her some tagament (previously prescribed for her when she had a back injury when on steriods, so I thought it would be okay). I thought maybe she'd feel better this morning but it's the same or worse. I did call the vet little after 7 and he said give her the prednisone. That was around 7:40am. I'm waiting for it to kick in. Hopefully that's what the problem is. He said he will test her tomorrow morning. She didn't even want it smeared in moist cat food (her favorite). We had to put it down the back of her throat. My husband was freaking out a little bit but I knew just what to do because of all of you. He seems scared to see her like this but I am being really calm. Thank you all so much - i would have been freaking out right now.

Tammy and Kallie

Kallie'smom 05-19-2009 06:20 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Does anyone know the dosage amount of prednisone for a 9 lb dog? He told me to give her one pill - it is 2.5mg.

Thanks,

Tammy

Kallie'smom 05-19-2009 09:37 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
She had no reaction to the 2.5 mg of prednisone so the vet had me bring her in right away. They did an x-ray because she seemed to be having a hard time breathing and one of her lungs is filled up. They don't know if she has pneumonia or a mass in there. They kept her for a couple hours to give her a water pill to clear it up to see if they can see anything in there and also to give her a stim test - they want to know how far along she is loading. She might be done. We are hoping for little high right now (instead of too low) since she needs antibiotics and i guess if she is low it would be harder to treat?? They don't think the two are related but its hard to know. Wow what a crazy night and morning. My poor husband is so upset so I have to be the strong one.

They think if all goes well she will be feeling fine this afternoon, if they can get some water out of her lung. Hopefully it's not more. I can pick her up at 2pm.

Tammy and Kallie

Roxee'sDad 05-19-2009 09:55 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,
Just wanted to drop in and let you know I (we) are keeping Kallie in our thought's and prayers. Hope she recovers soon and it's nothing too serious.

Please keep us updated.

John (Roxee's Dad)

LuvMyMunchie 05-19-2009 10:45 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,

Just read your post about Kallie's difficulties. Hoping that your vet will have some definite answers for your soon and that Kallie will be back home and on the road to recovery.

Thinking positive thoughts for Kallie. Give her some extra pets from me!

Louise

frijole 05-19-2009 10:53 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy,

I missed the excitement as I was out of town yesterday. Hope all is back to normal. Please note that if the vet does an acth test within 48 hrs of having been given prednisone the results might be a little off... the prednisone is mimicking the cortisol so the results would be LOWER. I hope this is making sense. I'm at work and can't chat. I just wanted to send a hug. Hope she is loaded and feeling better soon. Keep us posted.

Kim

Kallie'smom 05-19-2009 01:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed - she passed
 
I'm so sorry to tell everyone that Kallie passed away. I just got home from the vet. They found that her lung was filled up with fluid and were going to give her something to get rid of that and antibiotics and send her home. The medicine didn't work and they don't know why. When I went to pick her up they were going to send her home with me. She wasnt much different from this morning, but not worse. As I was sitting there waiting for the vet to come in she got way worse. They were counting on her getting better in the next couple hours. She didn't even hold her head up anymore. She had a very hard time breathing, and the vet said there was no chance for her at that point, so we figured it would be best to put her to sleep so she could stop suffering. They said she would have died on her own really soon.

This past year because of her age and heath related problems I made sure I did not take her for granted, not one day. Cuz I knew that when this happened I could look back at all those memories.

Thank you everyone for all your help the past month. Everyone is so nice and helpful. I will still be around keeping up on everyones stories.

Tammy

LuvMyMunchie 05-19-2009 02:05 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Oh, Tammy....I am so, so sorry to read that your Kallie has passed away. My heart aches for you. I am at an absolute loss for words.

Peace, sweet Kallie.

With deepest sympathy,

Louise

Roxee'sDad 05-19-2009 02:27 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Dear Tammy,
I am so very sorry for your great loss. No words could ever express how we feel at times like these. I just know Kallie will be watching over you.

John (Roxee's Dad)

Harley PoMMom 05-19-2009 02:28 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Oh Tammy,

I am so, so sorry for the loss of your beloved Kallie. Although words cannot do anything for the pain you are feeling now, know that we are here for you.

With Heartfelt Sympathy,

Lori

4Mikeydog 05-19-2009 02:59 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Dear Tammy,

I am so sorry for your loss. I just finished reading your thread and I am at a loss for words as well.
There is no way to express the depth of one's feelings at a time like this....I wish you peace, comfort, and beautiful memories of your beloved Kallie.

with love,
Dorothy and Mikey

BestBuddy 05-19-2009 03:46 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy,
None of us own our dogs we just get them for a while on loan but boy do we wish it was longer. I am so sorry it was Kallies time to go. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Godspeed Kallie
Jenny

forscooter 05-19-2009 05:19 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy...

I was able to read to keep up this afternoon but not post. I came to see how you made out at the vet and my heart just sank.

I am so very sorry....you did such a wonderful job with Kallie during this whole thing. She was so blessed to have you...as I know you feel about her. You did everything right, everything you could...sometimes, for whatever reason and I am still trying to figure out why :(, love can't save those we love....and if it could, I know you would.

Kallie will always be with you....deep safe within your heart. That's where I keep my Scoobie. I wish you both peace...and I want you to know that I think you did more than all the right things by her.

Lots of hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

frijole 05-19-2009 06:44 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy

Sorry, I read your thread earlier and it just hit me hard... I couldn't post. I am so very sorry to hear this. I know this is sudden and certainly has to be hard for you. Please know that we are here for you. When you are up to it, let us know how you are doing. Rest in peace dear Kallie.

Kim

Kallie'smom 05-20-2009 09:31 AM

Re: Kallie passed away
 
Thank you all for your kind words. It really helps to read all of your comments. I was so new here and you still show so much compassion. It was just the craziest thing to happen. So unexpected. I had such high hopes for her, with her treatment, doing everything right to make sure it all went well. Then to have something totally different happen just threw me for a loop. When you take (extra) care of a dog going thru a disease it seems you grow more of an attachment because you are with them, seems every moment, when they eat, drink, pee, poop, sleep (poke them to make sure they are breathing, she really hated that, lol), get up in the middle of the night, etc. Wow did my life revolve around her and taking care of her. When my other dog died a few years back it was different, he just wasnt there anymore, which was very sad but this is sooo different, he just needed to be fed and let outside, wanted couple hugs and kisses and for me to throw the ball. I don't know what to do with all this extra time on my hands, emptyiness, feel like I should be doing something, I thought you guys might know what I mean.

I am really doing okay, I have to, my husband had a total meltdown, so I try to be strong for him.

I am now armed with all this knowledge and will help whoever I can. I'm sure I will run across this disease again someday, I know alot of dogs!! Seems fairly common, and I might be able to spot it early and help them.

Thanks all,

Tammy

Lucygoo 05-20-2009 10:02 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Tammy,
I just read your thread and I am so very, very sorry for your loss. I was so caught up in my own nightmare and you were so nice to me. I know you did everything you could. Rest in peace, Kallie...

Much love,
Gina and Lucy

Lulusmom 05-20-2009 10:55 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,

You are one strong lady and Kallie was blessed to have been loved and nurtured by you and your hubby. You are part of our family now and I do hope that you will stay with us and continue to post, when you feel up to it, of course. I think it is wonderful that you are ready to share your experience and knowledge with others, whether they be members or pet owners you meet in passing. Bless you.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Glynda

Kwiggles 05-20-2009 01:53 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Dear Tammy,

I was so very sorry to hear that your dear Kallie is gone. I lost my beloved Joe just 3 days ago so I know the pain that you and your family are in. We must believe that time will ease our grief and eventually our feelings of loss will fade and be replaced by memories of the happy times and how much we loved them.

I was so touched by what you said about Kallie's illness bringing you closer- I felt the same way with Joe and after his Cushings diagnosis. I think it is a beautiful thing to be able to say that every one of Kallie's last days were special and that she truly knew she was loved. It just doesn't get any better than that.

Peace and comfort to you and your family and we will keep Kallie in our hearts.
Karen

gpgscott 05-20-2009 01:59 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
 
Hi Tammy,

I am sorry I have not posted to you sooner.

It is so hard to loose one and I think even harder when we are put the the position of deciding the time. But I also know that is what we are put here for and part of why they love and trust us so much.

Blessings to you, your husband and everyone else to whom Kallie was important. Mine will all get special attention tonight in her memory.

Scott


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