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-   Canine Cushings - See http://www.k9cushings.com (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=808)

frijole 05-16-2009 02:07 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Being lethargic and sleeping alot is common during loading because lysodren is a strong drug. I know my dog tends to sleep more on the days she gets it even after having been on it 3 yrs. So just being tired would not have me worried.

Signs of loading are reduced appetite and/or water consumption. Have there been any changes there yet?

Refresh my memory if you don't mind. What was her original ACTH number? Her first round of loading was for how many days? and then what was the next ACTH number? I'm trying to get a feel for how long it has been and how her body is reacting to the dosage.

When you started loading the 2nd time did you increase the dosage at all or did you stick with the same dosage?


Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 02:17 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Hi Kim,

No changes with the food and water/peeing. No diarrhea.

She first started loading and on the 6th day he tested her and it was 15. Took almost a week because the test was shipped out on a Friday and we didnt get the test back til Wednesday. We started her back up again same dose of 200mg per day Thursday. That was May 7th (that we started back up) so its been a week and 2 days. I just wanted to make sure being weak and tired wasn't one of the signs. I have to feed her tonight yet before bed so I will have another chance to monitor her eating. Would I give her prednisone in this instance or is that for only when the lysodren went too far?

Thanks for responding so quick.


stardeb55 05-16-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Tammy, you only want to give pred, if Kallie has one or more of the following symptoms, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or extreme lethargy. If you give pred, you must wait at least 24 hours after the pred before doing a stim, as the pred will read as cortisol, & give you a falsely elevated result. One last thing about the timing of a stim, lyso reaches it peak in the body at about 48 hours after the dose, so ideally, you would want to stim as close to the 48 hr. mark as possible.


Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 02:56 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Thanks Debbie!

Go to know. I didn't know that about the prednisone and the stim test. I think her last test was only 24 hours later.

Is extreme lethargy when they don't seem like they want to wake up or can't really walk?? Kallie is just sleepy, but if I get her up she walks around and gets a drink, goes poty and goes back to bed. She does seem a little sick - real warm and shakey, but she gets up to do the necessary.

Thanks so much, I feel a little better about the situation.

Tammy and Kallie

frijole 05-16-2009 02:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

No problem... it was luck as I was out of town all day today and just got home and checked in.

Prednisone during the loading phase is for use in emergency namely too much lysodren. (vomiting and diarrhea) Prednisone mimics cortisol so I would NOT give during loading. Some vets actually recommend it but I personally do not prefer this approach because it makes spotting signs of loading HARDER.

Being tired, stomach growling and awful GAS are all typical during loading just so you know. :p

I am not sure where you started (cortisol level) but after 6 days 15 is still not close to being loaded so it does not surprise me that you are still loading. Some dogs require higher dosages than others. My dog took almost 3 months to load (that does NOT include the days when we were waiting for the results) and each time we INCREASED the dosage. She is WAY over the recommended amount but all dogs are different and heck she has HELD that level without reloading for 3 yrs so it was worth the wait and getting it right.

My point is just to let you know there are lots of dogs that take longer than a week so don't fret. You might consider after 14 days (of 2nd load you are currently doing) retesting just to see how you are doing. It very well could be that you need a tad higher dosage. Remember you want to not only reach a cortisol level of between 1 and 5 but you also want to maintain that level so you never have to load again. ;):D

I think you are probably getting close so keep up the great work and keep asking questions. Been there and I know it is stressful. This group saved my sanity so I'm happy to pay it forward.


Kallie'smom 05-16-2009 06:57 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Wow Kim that's quite the record for loading!!! That must have taken so much out of you. Thanks for sharing all you know with us new ones.

Thanks for everyones input. I feel much better. I was out to eat for a couple hours and was afraid of how Kallie might be when I got home but she was barking and tail up - she's almost acting normal (licking my husband - she'll do that for half an hour). Don't know if she has OCD or might that be another symptom of Cushings? Does anyone elses dog do that? She licks the floor if she can't like him. Drive's us up the wall!!!

Everyone have a good night!! And I'll be praying for all the doggies out there that need help tonight so they can have a good day tomorrow.


frijole 05-17-2009 07:34 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

I forgot about the licking thing. :) I cannot speak to any scientific reason - or tie it to cushings - perhaps others can? I can only tell you that my gal was always a licker, however, after being treated I remember posting about how she was like a canine vacuum cleaner licking the carpet while walking thru the house. I remember others had the same experience but I can't for the life of me remember if we concluded why this happened. :confused:


forscooter 05-17-2009 03:49 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Hi Tammy....

Kim is right....we have had quite a few lickers...especially carpet lickers...I don't think we ever did narrow it down.:confused: I think some dogs had allergy issues which sometimes can present with a lot of licking....and others we just never could figure it out.

Tammy, I had two dogs with Cushing's....Bailey is still with me. During loading, they were quieter than usual. And even after we started maintenance in the beginning, they would get what we scientifically termed "yuckies" anywhere from 24-36 hours after being given the dose. Lysodren loading causes, usually, a rapid decrease in cortisol. Cortisol can make a dog feel better in some respects, and in others, not so good. But a rapid decrease can just throw things off balance a bit for them....don't worry though bc they adjust much better than we do watching them!!:p

As for the lethargy...you will know it. It is more than just being tired...more than just sleepy. It is a weakness like you haven't seen before. Scooter went low on me a few times and I'll never forget the first. It was like it happened yesterday. That morning he wasn't eating well, seemed very tired, really not too interested in much of anything. I thought well, I guess he is just having an "off" day and I went to work. When I came home, 8 hours later, he met me at the door as always. BUT, then he sat right down. And then laid down. Not the usual barking greeting I always got. I stopped and looked at him. It was like someone sucked the life out of his eyes. There was nothing there. I was suspicious and I offered him cheese.....no dice. I offered him peanut butter....nothing. He stayed on the floor and just had this dull look.

So, I took some pred, smeared cream cheese on my finger and wiped it all on the back of his tongue. It took about 30-45 minutes, but he was up running around the house and ate all his dinner.

So, a low, should there be one, will come on over hours...you will see an increase in symptoms....and you will KNOW it bc you know Kallie better than anyone else.

The only other thing I can tell you is if in doubt, if something just seems wrong for Kallie, you can't hurt to test. You won't lose much ground and it is always safer to be safe than sorry. I know you don't want to stim all the time, but if your gut tells you to check, you probably should. No one can really tell without testing the numbers. As I said, you know Kallie better than anyone so listen to your gut. And we'll help your gut as much as possible!:)

Hang in there....it DOES get better!!! Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

Kallie'smom 05-18-2009 07:51 AM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Hi Beth - Wow you had two with cushings, that must have been stressful. Did that just happen by chance? Sorry to hear you lost Scooter. How long did they have cushings?

Kallie sure has been having the "yuckies" the past 3 days. Hopefully that means she's done soon. She did eat a little slower today, but she has been coughing a little and kind of choking on her food so maybe that slowed her down. I'll see again at lunch. I will be talking to the vet this afternoon. I hope there isnt something else wrong with her. Her breath has been extra nasty lately. And with her kind of gagging/choking. Her teeth have been really bad the last few years. We were going to get them cleaned, but then my husband lost his job and out of work for 5 months! We looked back into it when he got a new job and did the blood tests and thats when we started checking into cushings. Hopefully if all goes well we will get her teeth cleaned after she is on maintenance. I am very worried about her mouth. I am scared to even look in there.

Thanks for the example of Scooter when he was lethargic. That really helped me realize/picture what it should be like.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Tammy and Kallie

Roxee'sDad 05-18-2009 02:40 PM

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed
Hi Tammy,
My Roxee was a floor licker too. She would just lay down and start licking the floor:( I thought she was liking the flavor. Seemed to have stopped when her stim results came back in the desired range.:)

Hope all continues to improve with Kallie.

John (Roxee's Dad)

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