Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer - Earned his wings

[LuvMyMunchie]

I am not new to this forum as I joined in 2009 when K9Cushings was temporarily here, however, I am brand new to dog diabetes. My Munchie’s IMS called me today with new lab results and dropped the diabetes bomb. Said his bg was 294. I definitely could use some moral support. My Munchie has a long list of health issues and has been on chemo since Dec. 2011. He is such a sweet, loving little guy and also a full time job. My head is spinning right now with the addition of the diabetes diagnosis.

Munchie will receive his first insulin injection tomorrow from his IMS and I will be getting some instruction. I asked for a Rx so I can purchase his insulin where it’s less expensive and I guess I need to buy some Karo syrup to have on hand in case he goes low. I have an extra One Touch Mini meter and some strips I’m going to take with me but I’m thinking I probably need to purchase the AlphaTrak 2 system if it is more accurate for a dog. I’ll be doing home testing and need to learn how to do a curve. Have so much to learn it's rather overwhelming. IMS told me I’ll have to bring Munchie in once a week until he is regulated which will be a 2 hr. round trip drive each time (and a bit of a hassle) but will do what I have to do to so he will be ok.

I do have a couple of questions. Munchie is on a UC Davis home cooked diet. He can’t tolerate chicken, nothing with soy…and the list goes on. It’s low fat for his hyperlipidemia but is mostly white rice with some fish and Balance IT vitamins thrown in. Fiber content is zilch. The poor guy has to be able to eat something and this diet is it. Seems to me that all the white rice is going to wreak havoc with his glucose control. Anybody have any suggestions??? Also, I divide his food up and feed him 3-4 small meals throughout the day as it’s easier on his tummy (GI problems). Got a feeling I will need to change this when he starts insulin. Help!!!!

Louise

[jenny]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise, Just a quick Hello and welcome, Im off to work.
Im sure that you and Munchie ( great name) will cope fine with this new diabetes diagnosis. It will take a bit a jiggling about his other health issues no doubt, but it will and can be done.

Great that you are going to be home testing him, but just wanted to say the alphatrax is the most expensive machine and many of us use human machines and get good results. I use the one touch ultra too and find it very good, I have both the Mini and the full size machines and find they give reliable readings, slightly lower that the lab analysis, but definately comparable. Craig has written a really good post about the different meters and their pros and cons on the main forum site, so have a look at that maybe. Cant help you with the diet questions, but Im sure more expeienced members will be along soon to help.

Big hugs to you and Im sure you will great support from all of us here!

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the reply and the info! I will go read Craig's post about meters. My One Touch Mini is sounding pretty good right now since I already own it.

Louise

[Yulismum]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi and welcome

It sounds as though you have your hands full, but it also sounds as though you are going to cope once you have got your head around this. I am new to diabetes (dx August) so I would not give you any advice, we have not yet regulated. At the suggestion of the board (all hail Patty) I give my pooch breakfast and then 2 hours later another breakfast. Same at dinner. It has smoothed out his curve a bit and he thinks 4 meals a day is wonderful!

I use the Alpha Trak 2 but it is very expensive. Once we are regulated, I may well get a cheaper one and just use the AT2 when I curve or need a more accurate reading. Craig is your man for meters.

Good luck

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Ann,

Thank you so much for sharing the 4 meal plan you're using for your baby. That's the perfect plan for Munchie. Good luck with the regulating.

I am so confused now. I know Munchie is going to be on NPH but that's about all I do know. The IMS was talking about doing some other test to confirm the diabetes and then decided against it when I told him Munch had started slurping up water, which he normally doesn't do. He has also lost some weight. He wasn't fasted for his last labs but even with food I don't think a normal dog would be at 294 or is my thinking wrong???

I am giving Munchie his breakfast around 7 a.m. so he can get his chemo meds and will be at the vet clinic at 10:30 a.m. I know he will get his first injection but not sure what time that will happen.

1, Do dogs normal get insulin in-betweel meals and could this end up being a problem today after we get back home?

2. I may reluctantly buy the first vial of insulin and whatever else is needed from the IMS as I am very concerned about leaving Munchie at home alone and unmonitored after his first dose of insulin while I go to get a prescription filled at WalMart or wherever I end up. Am I being too overly cautious and worrying too much about this?

He's been through so much healthwise since 2007 and I watch him like a hawk. Guess I'm just downright scared right now.

All feedback welcome and appreciated.

Louise

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hey there Louise, Although you definitely have your hands full from what you said already I think you will be able to manage this.

I think you would be okay to pop into Walmart on your way home. NPH usually takes 1- 1 1/2 hrs. to kick in and I imagine your vet will start him on a lower dose and then work his way up. Good to hear he would want Munchie back weekly to check the numbers.

A lot of folks here use the One Touch Ultra 2 meter. I think the smaller meters aren't as accurate. You could get that at Walmart too. Or if you wanted to just get some strips for the mini until the Alpha Track gets here, that would at least get you started on testing and take away some of the fear.

I also have a dog with two other conditions that make the diet unchangeable. Because of that I have incorporated the fast acting insulins (R and Humalog) into her daily routine. Takes a bit more testing, but for us it has made a bad situation manageable.

At this point though, just one foot in front of the other. A couple of days (3-5) on the starting dose and then you can do a home curve to see the results. In the meantime you could spot check at 6-8 hrs. out to see what is going on midday. That is usually.....when the insulin is at it's strongest so BGs are at their lowest.

*****You can also get syringes at Walmart much cheaper. You may need a script for themin your state though.

Hang in there!

Tara

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Thanks Tara. I'm sure glad this forum exists! With each response I get I"m feeling a little less nervous. Appreciate your feedback.

Louise

[farrwf]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise and welcone to you and Munchie.

As has been mentioned, Walmart is by far your cheapest buy on the insulin and syringes.

• $12.58 for 100 syringes
• $24.58 for the insulin

I'm sure there be several members commenting who have the dual diagnosis Munchie has.

Was the diagnosis based on one bg test of 294?

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi farrwf,

I'll definitely be shopping for supplies at Walmart. The price for insulin was almost $90 at PetMeds. $24.58 sounds a lot better.

Yes, his diagnosis was based on one 294 bg reading from this lastTuesday plus the fact that he has lost some weight and started drinking water, which he normally doesn't do. I have to add water to his food to keep him hydrated and flush out the chemo drug. He also has a sore between two of his toes that just won't heal and maybe the diabetes is the culprit.

I sure hope starting the insulin will make him feel better as he's just not been himself lately.

Louise

[Cebe]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Is it possible to change the white rice to brown rice? Also squash, pumpkin, and sweet potatoes may work.

You will want to make sure Munchie is being fed and given shots on a 12 hour schedule. That will really help you get control.

I think you'll be ok to go to Walmart after the first dose. But do keep some syrup close. Also the initial bg number was pretty low, certainly not normal, and definitely indicative of diabetes but if I get a number like that with Zoe, I shrug. My point is that Munchie seems to just be at the beginning of this and may only need mild insulin support now. Ask your vet if its possible that this is transient due to medication or other conditions, pancreatitis possibly.

I question the need for your vet to see your dog so often, but there may be other reasons. If its just for regulation of the diabetes, I would get yourself up to speed on testing and see if you can do the testing at home and phone in the results and consultation and maybe only see the vet once a month.

[jesse girl]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

hi and welcome to both of you

many of our pups have additional challenges that can affect blood sugar home testing will certainly help with that it would be a good idea to take your meter and compare with the vets multiple comparisons would be helpful at different levels especially at higher levels

comparing to a lab analyzer is the most accurate way to compare because any held testing device including animal can be off at higher levels what you are looking for is consistency in the meter not big swings in blood sugar that are tested immediately after each other doont expect perfection and thats ok your looking for trends and most are fairly accurate at lower levels

with the 294 reading that is good at dx with no insulin most of us have seen 500s to 600s to give some perspective so it appears you caught it early which seems to help with regulation but you do want to be careful because figuring the correct dose can be difficult because there is a possibility he may still be producing insulin and its always possible on rare occasions it maybe a misdiagnosis and this could be temporary just putting it out there

hopefully your vet goes with a much lower starting dose to begin just because what we have talked about get lots of strips for your meter you really want to start to test as soon as you can

check out videos on seizures in dogs and symptoms i think there is a couple that are low blood sugar but any type will give you an idea just to get an idea what you are looking for in terms of symptoms and if you see treat immediately with karo and dont be shy to use it until symptoms have subsided
rubbing some on gums and inner lips and if able letting him lick off spoon

this is very doable my jesse has epilepsy also and i worry much more about that than the diabetes

[Bogey's Mom]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I'm new here also!!! This is such a great place to get info and a hug. My dog also has GI problems so the vet told me to keep him on the same food for now. I am also testing at home with a One Touch Ultra 2. The best man at my wedding was a Mini Schnauzer!!!

[Patty]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise. Welcome to you!
I haven't been able to keep up with other threads as much because my pup has had some challenges but wanted to welcome you and comment that I think starting out with your OneTouch Mini sounds like a good idea. You can get test strips off ebay for 1/2 the retail cost (just watch for factory sealed boxes and good expiration dates).

Honey and regular pancake syrup can work as well as karo for lows if you have them on hand. I have individual packets of honey that I put in my pocket when walking Ali.

Eileen's Mildred was on a diet for high triglycerides. That might be one to do a search for.

Take care,
Patty

[BogiesMom]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise,
I am fairly new to diabetes and the forum so I can't offer much advise... I also have a 7 year old mini schnauzer named Bogie and he was diagnosed the end of Aug. We are still regulating him but finally getting better numbers. The people here on the forum have been a huge help and reassuance to me. So welcome to the forum and best luck with Munchie.
Dawn and Bogie

[BoJanie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise, we are fairly new too but I am wondering about that 294 bg. Ours was so off the charts and stayed that way for weeks and we had to go to another type of insulin. So maybe Munchie is making some insulin still. I would just want plenty of verification to determine correct dose of insulin and be able to test him for lows. I really like the Alphatrak2 meter, but I am also wanting to switch over eventually to a human meter, so having both is probably not a bad idea. Craig is a good source on this issue! As far as feeding, that is an area we have been fortunate in and can do twice a day, so I don't know much about special diets. You will just have to figure what works best for your situation. Very best of luck, it is hard, but it can be done and this forum will give you so much good information vs some vets who don't want us to test. That is what I have come up against and frankly do not understand. It is very empowering to learn how to test, to learn how to judge the insulin peaks etc. and to watch your dog get more regulated - in our case from the mid 500s all day to under 200 most of the day. I find the inside of the lip is the best place to test on Bo. It sounds like it would be painful but actually does not bother him and heals very fast. Janie