Bosco is an Angel

[Bosco]

My dog was just diagnosed on October 8. Her name is Bosco & she is a miniature schnauzer. I home cook her meals. I don't have a glucose meter yet. My vet says it's not necessary to do testing at home. I really can't afford the AlphaTrak testing strips. I am wondering about snacks, what kind & how often. Thanks for your help.

[stylynjm]

Re: Bosco

Hello to you and Bosco,
Many people will join in, however. More about Bosco. When do you feed, and what, how much. When do you give insulin and how much, and what kind of insulin.
You can use a human meter, they do read lower than the alphatrak, but work well to give you a guideline of where Bosco is #'s wise and if he is safe. The most important. Lows are more dangerous than slightly high.
I use Novolin N, $25.00 at Walmart. their needles are also reasonable. I also use the Relion Confirm meter(walmart brand). the strips are cheaper than most and work fine. A lot of the members like the Ultra one touch, I think that's the model.
Diabetes is workable and home testing, as many will agree, has saved their pups more than once... Good luck. Everyone here has a lot of experience and knowledge, and are more than willing to help guide you through any hurdles.
Welcome, you have found the right place to be

[CraigM]

Re: Bosco

Welcome! You've probably seen that most of us do home blood test. Very hard to know how Bosco is doing without testing, and a LOT cheaper than going to the vet every week or two. The way I look at it is that human doctors almost insist diabetics home blood test, so why not our pups? I know if my human son / daughter had diabetes we would be testing for sure. I guess there are some dogs that just won't allow testing, but these are very few.

The AlphaTrak2 is a great meter, but probably most here use a human meter for either all, or some, of the testing. The One Touch Ultra2 can usually be found on Amazon for around $15, and test strips online are much less expensive than at most local stores.

Treats generally need to be diabetic friendly, such as a green bean, piece of cauliflower, ice cube. Some might give a fingernail sized piece of chicken. Of course without home testing, you won't know if the treat you give is making the blood glucose jump or not. A couple of weeks ago I gave my Annie a small doggie treat and a few hours later she tested in the 300s (gave those treats away).

Most here feed two identical (I weigh the kibble on a food scale) 12 hours apart. Very difficult to get them regulated if the meal varies. Yes, there are a few here that vary from the 12 hours, but they have had been at it for years and have developed their technique by home testing.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: Bosco

Welcome to the forum! As far as testing goes, most vets don't say it is necessary. I am guessing there are a few reasons - some think the concept of testing at home might be too scary for newly diabetic parents, some fear that if you test you will start adjusting insulin without their input, and some think all dogs go by the same protocol. If you spend much time reading the forum, you can see that isn't the case. Dogs are individuals and what works great for one may not work well for another.

I use a One Touch Ultra mini and it works well, so well that my vet got one for his clinic after using mine. You can get strips on ebay really cheap compared to stores. I got some today for 40 cents a piece and they are cheaper if you can buy bigger quantities. Make sure the boxes are sealed and the expiration dates are good and that the seller has good feedback. Most of the people are diabetics selling their extra strips.

Testing will save you money by doing curves at home rather than the vet and will speed the regulation process along plus it gives you peace of mind. Schnauzers have proven to be a little difficult to regulate as the breed just has some characteristics like high triglycerides.

I have a non-diabetic schnauzer named Mya - she is such a joy. She was a puppy mill mom dog who at four could no longer churn out puppies but once she discovered not all people are bad, being outside is not so scary and toys are fun, she is like having a puppy again.

[harleychik66]

Re: Bosco

We just started the home testing after about 5-6 weeks. Initially our vet said...oh no you don't test we do it here. We've done 3 all day curves tests to the tune of 250.00 a test. That actually was not my reason for home testing. I initially wanted to do so but my vet made it seem like it wasn't done. I have since found out differently. Couple that with my guy crashed on Saturday I was bound determined to be more aware of his numbers apart from bi monthly or monthly tests.

He was in yesterday for an all day curve and I took in a human meter to see the difference in points so I could have a better idea of where he is at at home.

I did a little reading on here..initally thought about the Alpha track but for now decided to try a cheaper human bg meter and I can always change later. I reviewed many online reviews and decided to go with the ReliOn Confirm. There was a cheaper unit and the test strips were cheaper by ReliOn but it didn't get the best reviews. The confirm also only needs a really really small blood sample hence the Confirm. The meter was 15.00. The strips at walmart were 40¢ each but I only bought a small container and then ordered 200 of them off ebay and they break down to 27¢ a strip. Not too bad I don't feel.

As far as feeding. I have always fed 2x a day at 6 and around 3:30-4. I had to change to 6 and 6 and there is/was no way my guy was going to wait that long. He KNOWS when his "normal" supper time was and he would not sleep/settle or to hear him survive if he didn't get fed then. Vet ok'd a small kibble meal to tide him over but it seemed that kibble meal was really bumping up his levels around 4. We have since switched to a small all protein meal of cooked chicken or rabbit or ground beef or venison, a boiled egg with the shell and a small spoonful of cottage cheese. It's actually more portion wise with fewer cals and this really seems for now to work much better.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Bosco

Welcome Bosco to our forum, ask away any question you have, were here tohelp you. I give my dog 6 green beans chopped up midway at the 6hour mark. 12 hours is a long time to go without eating.

I also give him a treat after his walk to bring up his blood glucose as he tends to go low. I dont want him to go hypo, very low dangerous blood sugar. He tends to get low 2hours after eating and injecting.

He gets a dried liver treatafter a walk in the am and pm doesnt raise his bg as I test him after a walk. Also at nite I give him a driedsweet potato treat.

When you get a minute tell usmore about your Bosco

[jenny]

Re: Bosco

Hello and another warm welcome to you and Bosco.

I started with home blood testing straight away and find it indispensible in keeping my pup in good ranges. Shes really happy and well 18 months in. I do remember how overwhelming it was in the begining though and would encourage you to read up as much as you can and ask away on this great forum. My vet had not come across anyone home testing either and is now sold on the idea and recommends it to other clients. I too use the human one touch ultra with supplies from ebay.

Looking forward to hearing more about your pup.

[eileen]

Re: Bosco

Welcome!

So very glad you have decided to learn to home blood test, it is a vital part of their daily care.
I learned to blood test on the day my girl was diagnosed with diabetes with never a single day going by where I did not.
With 4 diabetic cats also, they were/are blood tested as well.

There are certain meters that seem to have better track records with our diabetics than others...with this said it is also dog individual.
I used/use the Alpha Trak for about 6 years now altho for the first few years I used various meters.
I know those that use the One touch Ultra are quite pleased with its reliability.
Regardless of which meter you choose it should be compared to your Vet's chemical analyzer at various sugar levels to determine it's reliablity and pointspread.

I was fortunate in that my Vet suggests and encourages his diabetic pet owners to learn to blood test at home.
In speaking with an Intern from U C Davis a few months ago he told me that home testing is being taught now in school, I was very glad to see this encouraging news for future generations.

Good luck to you as you begin this diabetic journey...

[Bosco]

Re: Bosco

Bosco is a miniature schnauzer and is 9 years olds. She was 15 pounds and in 3 weeks she went down to 13.2 pounds before she was diagnosed. She has not gained any weight in the 2 weeks she has been on insulin. She is on Walmart insulin, 2 units, 2x a day. She is going for another glucose curve tomorrow. Her blood glucose was 368 when she was diagnosed.

She is on a home cooked meal. I took the recipe for a balanced diet from
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_5/features/Canine-Diabetes-Diagnosis-and-Treatment_20521-1.html.
This is the recipe I use. These are raw ingredients.
2/3 pound ground white turkey
11/4 c pearled barley
1 ½ c cottage cheese
1/3 pound carrots
½ wheat bran
2 tsp pectin
This makes 6 c cooked food.

I feed 1 cup 2x per day, 12 hours apart. I also give her a vitamin, Canine Plus. I have ordered a calcium supplement, Thomas Labs Vet-D-Cal Powder.
I have freezed dried liver treats from Trader Joe’s that I give her several times a day. I have also been giving her garbanzo beans several times a day. She will not eat raw or frozen green beans as a treat.

At the 6 hour mark, I give her 1 hard boiled egg, white only & a few cooked green beans.
The part of the eating routine I don’t understand is the treats. Are the treats supposed to be very limited or can they be given frequently? I don’t understand about giving a treat & then testing. What is the test looking for, high bg, low bg? I am lost.

[Monsters Momma]

Re: Bosco

My dog was just diagnosed on October 8. Her name is Bosco & she is a miniature schnauzer. I home cook her meals. I don't have a glucose meter yet. My vet says it's not necessary to do testing at home. I really can't afford the AlphaTrak testing strips. I am wondering about snacks, what kind & how often. Thanks for your help.

Welcome to you and Bosco! You have found a great site with lots of knowledgeable people! You have already received a lot of great advice, but I wanted to add a couple of things.

I am one of those that does test and test often. My vet has gotten so comfortable with me testing, after telling me it was not necessary, that he uses my curves. I have to admit, I do adjust Vinny's insulin based on what I'm seeing with his numbers day to day and his curves I've been trying to do once a week. I let the vet know where we are. I wouldn't suggest this for everyone, but it certainly works for us.

I'm incredibly fortunate that we do test since we have had a puppy in our house reeking havoc! It's really had a detrimental effect on Vinny's numbers and I've been able to adjust accordingly. I'm sure you would hear similar stories from anyone that has a diabetic dog and home tests them.

There are lots of video's on this forum that should help, http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2243 and just tons of information! Don't try to take it all in at once, it will make your head spin! Ask questions, and above all...tell us about Bosco!!
Welcome again,
Mel

[eileen]

Re: Bosco

The one thing that really jumps out for me are the carrots...many diabetic dogs will see an increase in the sugar levels with carrots, some are not affected.
A carrot would send my girl's sugar levels high.

In order to see how treats, or anything for that matter, will affect our diabetics is to blood test before and then after.
With testing we can see what effect, if any, the food in question will have on the sugar levels.

Because I blood tested at home I did not have Vet run curves.

[amydunn19]

Re: Bosco

Basically, with testing, you are learning how the food and insulin are coming into balance for your dog. I test four times a day. Before each meal, at noon, and before bed. When you get to a certain point, you won't necessarily have to do it that often. My dog has tendancies to go low easily especially after exercise, a bath or sometimes for reasons I am not certain of.

The main advantage of testing is to keep them safe. If you test at fasting before meal time, and you were to get a lower than expected number, then you might want to rethink the dose of insulin. We don't habitually change dosage based on readings but if the number is below 100, it does make a difference because low sugar can be deadly. Here is an example from a day last week for my dog: Morning fasting 150, Noon 180, Evening Before meal 53 so, my plan is feed her normally, set a one hour timer and recheck her. There is no way I would give any insulin without making sure she came up to an acceptable level. Another recent event - we decided to go walk, i checked her before and she was at a good level like 180 I think. We went around the block nothing major and got back. She seemed fine and she tested at 44. So, I immediately gave her a snack.

As you test and learn your dogs patterns, you will see where you can make subtle adjustments to the things you do whether it is food, timing, insulin, exercise. Little things can make a huge difference.

In the early days, when you try to get to a regulating dose, you will want to keep treats at a minimum. But, that said, I think a pre testing treat and a preshot treat are important. I use a tiny piece of string cheese, or a freeze dried sweet potato chip or a freeze dried piece of buffalo meat. Nothing too carby or big. As your dog's levels become better and you see patterns, you can always add in a treat or minimeal if needed.

[harleychik66]

Re: Bosco

I have freezed dried liver treats from Trader Joe’s that I give her several times a day. I have also been giving her garbanzo beans several times a day. She will not eat raw or frozen green beans as a treat.

At the 6 hour mark, I give her 1 hard boiled egg, white only & a few cooked green beans.
The part of the eating routine I don’t understand is the treats. Are the treats supposed to be very limited or can they be given frequently? I don’t understand about giving a treat & then testing. What is the test looking for, high bg, low bg? I am lost.

I will share/say this. I used to feed kibble as well as raw. I mainly fed grain free foods. My rottie Lou who is the diabetic one was diagnosed with a rare condition called Sebaceous Adenitis,a freakish immune disorder almost a year ago. At that point it was recommended no raw due to the immune disorder. With the meds and supplements he needed to take he also could no longer handle grain free at every feeding so I had to adjust to that. I have always done a rotation of foods from different companies and different flavors. Prior the feeding bag rotation may have went Taste of the wild, evo, origen, canidae grainfree and so on. Well I needed to add more bags of grained foods for that. So the rotation was then about 3 bags of various grained foods...canidae and those type.

When Lou was diagnosed with diabetes about 6 weeks ago we needed to go to 12 hour feedings. I KNOW my boy and I could not/would not make it to 12 hours. So vet told us it was fine to give a little snack meal mid day. But I am seeing where that mid snack meal was bumping up is bg so I have started giving him boiled/cooked rabbit/chicken/turkey/ground beef with a hard boiled egg including the shell and a small spoon of cottage cheese. This seems to be working.

As far as treats... I have never worried about that because I tend to always give either homemade liver jerky, chicken, cheese...some will say no cheese for dogs but the size treat vs the size of my dogs doesn't show any ill results, a piece of popcorn, a chunk of lettuce...ya my whacked crew loves the lettuce, liversausage or any other meat I may have in my fridge. Since I do not do any type of store bought treats I honestly don't worry that the small treats he gets daily matter. That and the fact I am not a give out a treat every 5 minutes kind of owner. I have seen nothing in his readings to even make me consider these treats are elevating his bg too high.

Granted my guy weighs 100lbs and is actually to the lean side for a rottie but I see nothing wrong with a little fingernail tip size treat of protein.

Of course I also give peanut butter with supplements and meds...and because of my guys SA he gets quite a few supplements ect daily so for me I just figure that is part of the way it needs to be.

I guess in my little ramble what I am trying to say is #1- each dog needs things slightly different and #2- a small little piece of protein would be the best type treat if you need to give one.

[CraigM]

Re: Bosco

Another comment on Bosco's diet. As Eileen mentioned, carrots may cause the blood glucose to rise. I think there is conflicting info about carrots (in human diabetics) and would just be mindful that they may affect the BG.

Another thought I have is whether many home cooked meals are really consistent? I realize those who home cook measure / weigh the ingredients, but is each meal consistent? Does each meal have the same amount of each ingredient? I really don't know if this is soooo critical, but it's something else to consider.

Many give a diabetic friendly treat after a blood test, as a reward for testing.

Testing after an unknown treat (something you're not sure how it will affect the BG) can be useful to learn if that treat is "friendly", or if it will cause the BG to skyrocket 100+ points. I wouldn't test right after a new treat, but maybe an hour later after it it was probably digested.

I personally don't usually give between meal treats other than a green bean type of treat. The way I look at is if I had a diabetic human child I'd definitely not give him candy between meals

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: Bosco

Another question - did your vet test Bosco's triglycerides? That would be a worthwhile test in my opinion! You might want to read through Elliot and Bogie's threads as they are both schnauzers and you can see the challenges they have had - not that Bosco will be exactly the same. All are different