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-   -   Newly Diagnosed and Confused (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6916)

Isabelle 07-09-2016 07:12 PM

Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Izzy (28 pound Scottish Terrier) was diagnosed with diabetes about 3 weeks ago. She started with 5 units, was tested at the vets a week later and her levels had increased so went to 6 units and a week later was tested again and they were still up so she is now at 7 units. She is on another round of antibiotics for a urinary tract infection. She is drinking less than 3 weeks ago and she is less lethargic, although she is still quiet. She is eating prescription low fat dog food for her high triglycerides and treats are limited to veggies and occasional dried lamb lung. I am completely overwhelmed and worried.

wild lady wolf 07-09-2016 07:45 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Hello there!

I like you, was very upset and confused but the good news is you now will have access to lots of helpful info, so don't panic.

It took several dosages before Mr Shadow's proper amount was found, but usually the vet will start w/less amount of insulin and add after the glucose is checked. It took me several months to build enough courage to test him at home, but I could tell he was way too stressed at the vet & that spikes his levels even more!

There are still mornings and rare afternoons when my dog will refuse to eat, no matter what I offer him, but you need to work with what is best for your pet. And they need to have ingested enough food for the insulin to work, so snacking all day is not a good idea. I have just started feeding him baby food turkey & chicken mixed with the prescription hills D/W.

Izzy will be okay because she has you to care for her.

CraigM 07-09-2016 08:35 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Welcome to the forum!

5.5 to 6 units is a typical starting dosage. A general recommendation for starting is 0.2 units per pound, twice a day. Most pups will require more than this, but it's important to start low and work slowly upwards. Just as an example, my 19 pound Annie is getting 9 units. Keep in mind that every dog / situation is different and insulin dosage is affected by many variables: amount of food, type of food, activity, stress, other medications and much more. As you know, uncontrolled diabetics are prone to UTIs and other infections and infections likely will affect their blood glucose.

Some of us use Cranberry Relief (Amazon, PetCo, PetSmart) to reduce the likelihood of UTIs. Cranberry Relief, or other additives, don't cure UTIs, but may help prevent future problems. I don't think my Annie has had an UTI for 6+ years, but every dog is different.

You've probably read that most on the forum home test their pups blood glucose. Take a look at the many videos on YouTube, or on the main page of this website:)

Craig

Isabelle 07-10-2016 04:39 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Thank you for all of your information. Once we got the UTO under control I will try the Cranberry Relief. Izzy is wonderful with there insulin shots-not happy but not the drama queen she usually is - we go to the vets once a week for her blood glucose check and the week after next she will stay for her glucose curve. I know I have to work up the courage to do the testing at home - luckily, for now, the vet is close to home.

Eddie 07-10-2016 04:57 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Hello and welcome!

I think most people on here also felt completely overwhelmed when they first had their dogs diagnosed but the good news is that it fairly soon becomes quite routine. I certainly had never dealt with any dog illness that required me to do any more than just feed them pills at the required intervals, and diabetes does have to be a little more hands on than that.
(I also had no idea that there would not a be a fixed dose for insulin and didn't realise that getting them regulated is a process which takes time).

If your dog's drinking is moderating then it looks as if she is responding well to the insulin and you are heading in the right direction. Our dog quite often has antibiotics and with some brands I am pretty sure that they make him feel ill as a side effect, so your dog may be experiencing a bit of that too.

Home testing is great in that it provides up to the minute information and you can do it as often as you wish. I was very reluctant to start, didn't think I could do it - then a member on here sent me a meter so I thought I'd better get on with it and I found it wasn't half as bad as I expected. Some dogs don't like it but most seem to accept it quite readily - ours comes up to us with his tail wagging when we say it's time to test him, because he loves the little treat he gets as his reward.

There is a lot of help and experience available through this forum so don't hesitate to ask if you have questions.

Antonia

Isabelle 07-10-2016 09:07 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
I could use some reassurance from everyone who has experience. Izzy started an increase to 7 units of Humulin N on Friday and today she is back to drinking and peeing. Every time we increase her insulin dosage she is better for a few days and then reverts back to the drinking and peeing cycle. We take her to the bet to test her blood glucose and it had increased. I know we are in the beginning stages and it will take some time. I trust our vet and from what I read, she is doing everything right. However, I am an emotional basket case - I was in the grocery store this morning and I just started crying. I will be talking to the vet tomorrow since her blood and urine test results will be back tomorrow - she thinks her UTI needs another course of antibiotics. Thanks for listening.

CraigM 07-10-2016 09:24 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabelle (Post 155643)
I could use some reassurance from everyone who has experience. Izzy started an increase to 7 units of Humulin N on Friday and today she is back to drinking and peeing. Every time we increase her insulin dosage she is better for a few days and then reverts back to the drinking and peeing cycle. We take her to the bet to test her blood glucose and it had increased. I know we are in the beginning stages and it will take some time. I trust our vet and from what I read, she is doing everything right. However, I am an emotional basket case - I was in the grocery store this morning and I just started crying. I will be talking to the vet tomorrow since her blood and urine test results will be back tomorrow - she thinks her UTI needs another course of antibiotics. Thanks for listening.

Your story sounds pretty normal. 7 units might still be near the starting dosage and she might need more in the future. Infections can cause higher blood glucose readings so that might be adding to her problems. I know it's hard to do, but slow adjustments is the way to go:)

You are using Humulin-N? Most who are using "N" insulin are using Novolin-N from Walmart. I've used both Humulin-N and Novolin-N and really didn't see any difference. Novolin-N from Walmart is $25/vial (loss leader?) whereas Humulin-N is often $125+ for the same amount.

Craig

CraigM 07-10-2016 09:29 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Forgot to ask: is she spayed? I understand hormones can cause VERY WIDE swings in blood glucose. I think I've read that a small number of female dogs are diabetic only at certain times during their cycle. Hope others will discuss this.

Craig

Isabelle 07-10-2016 11:30 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Yes, she is spayed.

Isabelle 07-10-2016 11:33 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
And yes, she is on Humulin N - quite expensive; thank goodness we started pet insurance when we adopted her 5 years ago. She is not having a good day today - lots of drinking and peeing!

stylynjm 07-10-2016 12:12 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Welcome,
Novolin n is basically the same as humilin n.it is $25.00 at walmart. It is walmarts contract with the company.many of us ha e switched back and forth as walmart changes compa ies,with no real difference. Also,needles are cheaper there

Rover 07-10-2016 01:15 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabelle (Post 155624)
Izzy (28 pound Scottish Terrier) was diagnosed with diabetes about 3 weeks ago. She started with 5 units, was tested at the vets a week later and her levels had increased so went to 6 units and a week later was tested again and they were still up so she is now at 7 units. She is on another round of antibiotics for a urinary tract infection. She is drinking less than 3 weeks ago and she is less lethargic, although she is still quiet. She is eating prescription low fat dog food for her high triglycerides and treats are limited to veggies and occasional dried lamb lung. I am completely overwhelmed and worried.

Such a good start to treat you dog! Hope she will getting better soon.

Isabelle 07-16-2016 06:40 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Thank you for all of your advice and I am happy to report that after 4 weeks of increasingly higher doses in insulin, Izzy's glucose count is finally on a downward trend. It is still in the mid 400's , but her activity level is up and the drinking and peeing are back to normal. Finally some good news

jesse girl 07-16-2016 07:05 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
thats good news

hope for continued progress

Willis 07-17-2016 07:21 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabelle (Post 155804)
Thank you for all of your advice and I am happy to report that after 4 weeks of increasingly higher doses in insulin, Izzy's glucose count is finally on a downward trend. It is still in the mid 400's , but her activity level is up and the drinking and peeing are back to normal. Finally some good news

Hello Isabelle.

You're certainly in the right place for valuable support and information. These folks are amazingly helpful.

I was in your exact place 6 weeks ago. Feeling lost and panicking was a major part of my day. Actually still plays a big part in my world. My 35 lb. Corgi was diagnosed 6 weeks ago and I've been on the same path your currently on.

I'm so happy that Izzy's numbers are stabilizing. I'm still trying to get my boy into the 300 range. Continues in low to mid 4's.

Scooby's on 7 units of Novolin and has been for 3 weeks. I'm thinking I may look into a different food. If I may ask what food are you using?

The original vet sold me Royal Canin Diabetic. He then ran out of stock.
I joined here and saw many folks using non prescription foods. I'm thinking I should change. He's been on Blue Buffalo Healthy weight.

His thirst has improved but he's still pretty lethargic.

As I mentioned the folks here are awesome and will help. They "held my hand". I needed it for sure.

Take care and best of luck.
Willis

Isabelle 07-20-2016 05:31 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Willis:

Izzy is eating Royal Canin prescription, gastrointestinal, I believe. She needs a low fat dog food since her triglycerides were extremely high and the fat content of the non prescription healthy weight, low fat dog foods was too high for her.

We got the triglycerides under control and now this! Izzy's thirst has improved as well and she is still lethargic too.

Isabelle 07-23-2016 06:59 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Again, I need some reassurance for Izzy. For the second week in a row her BG has dropped and is in the low 400's, her appetite is good and she has not lost any more weight. Her insulin was increased another unit so she is now at 9 units of Humulin N 2 times a day. Next week she will go to the vet for her first curve. I know that eventually we have to work up the courage to test her at home, but for now she goes to the vet to be tested at the same time daily. She is still leaking pee and she is terribly embarrassed when this happens. My husband works at home so he can take her out every few hours during the day. At night, she sleeps on a towel or old quilt and I give her a mini bath before I leave for work. Her energy is still not back to normal and it makes me sad to see her like this.

jesse girl 07-23-2016 07:13 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
yes it takes time . my jesse took 6 months until she was getting back to her old self so it sounds like izzy is way ahead of that

MomofGus 07-23-2016 09:01 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
I'm glad her numbers are going down. Hopefully, she'll keep improving each day and the peeing will ease up for you.

stylynjm 07-23-2016 11:24 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Fyi, there are doggie diapers if her leaking is a problem;)

Judi 07-23-2016 11:56 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
I remember feeling bad when my Jenny felt bad for her accidents too. Hang in there. you are loving her cleaning her and working to make it so she won't have accidents anymore. eventually you should hit a phase where she is herself again.

patience is sooooo hard. We all feel your pain. Judi

Isabelle 07-23-2016 01:04 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Thank you everyone. I just need some reassurance and I got it from your posts! I sent my husband to the store for some doggy diapers and she just got back from the groomer who trimmed her a shorter version of her Scottie cut so that it would be easier to give Izzy her mini baths in the morning.

Isabelle 08-07-2016 12:42 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
It has been a couple of weeks since I have posted, needing some reassurance - so here I am again! It has been 6 weeks since Izzy's diabetes diagnosis. She started at 5 units and has steadily increased her 2x day, 12 hours apart dose of Humulin N so that she is now at 11 units. She spent the day at the vets 1 weeks ago for her first curve - the good news is that the shape of the curve was good, the bad news is that her levels were still way high from a low of 460 mid day to a high of 650 in the morning and creeping back up to 560 by the time she came home in the late afternoon. She goes to the vet once a week for her glucose to be checked at the same time of the day each time; last week her noon time level was 450. Even with not testing her at home (which I know we should do) I can tell that she is feeling better - her activity level has increased steadily, but she is still not back to her pre diabetes self. She is still drinking and peeing a lot, but not like it had been. So all signs are trending up but I am still discouraged that her levels are still so high. I know I should not compare her to another dog and that it could take months - but I worry about her. Thanks for listening. I told my vet about this site and she is going to recommend it to some of her other clients.

amydunn19 08-07-2016 12:51 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Checking only once a day is not really effective to base changes upon. Although you get a feel for the shape of the curve, it is early on and that shape can change some. Also, insulin may decide to kick in at a particularly active time and boom - down it goes. Also, if a dog is initially showing some resistance, it can just one day have a breakthrough. We have seen it - like the insulin is conditioning the body and after enough, the body finally says okay, I get it. I don't want to pressure you into testing but as you get closer to the proper dose, curves are really necessary - I would hate for you to pass the needed dose. Remember, even if dogs don't show anxiety outwardly, your dog might be stressed at the vet and in a home setting, the numbers may be much lower. Everything affects blood sugar in one way or another.

jesse girl 08-07-2016 01:01 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
well its been 6 weeks since diagnosis from what i interpret from your post (let me know if i am incorrect ) and the vet has only done one curve which was 1.5 weeks ago . you go to the vet for one glucose reading once a week i presume that some of those dose adjustment were based on that single test once again if i am wrong let me know

the problem with that method is that time of day may not be the lowest sugar. it can be at any point in the day and there can be a wide variation in the numbers thats why we do complete curves for dose adjustments

my jesse early in her diagnosis went from 500 to 70 in a few hours and back up to 500 at 6 hours if we tested her at that 6 hour mark with that method of a single test we probably would have raised the dose and put her at risk to low sugar with that 70 going even lower

in the end the big swings in blood sugar for jesse actually pointed to the dose being to much and she actually needed a reduction to stabilize sugar

definitely recommend testing sugar at home

Isabelle 08-10-2016 05:12 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Thanks - we will make the leap to test her at home

Isabelle 10-10-2016 09:36 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
It has been a while since I posted about Isabelle. After 4 months, it appears that her blood sugar has stabilized (at least for the time being). She is starting to gain weight after dropping from 28 pounds to 24 and her activity level is back to normal. She is on 12 units of Humalin N, every 12 hours. It has been a difficult summer but we have gotten into a pattern of adjusting our schedule to meet Izzy's and realizing that we can not become complacent.

jesse girl 10-10-2016 10:01 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Its definitely not a walk in the park at the beginning because it is quite a learning curve and a change in lifestyle for dog and caretaker

Once things settle and you get a good understanding on how this works you enter that new normal stage which you sound like you have entered

Yep you don't want to get complacent with this disease and it can easily happen

Glad your on you toes and things have settled into a new normal routine

SarahG 10-10-2016 11:05 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Hello Everyone. I am brand new, my dog was diagnosed on Friday. I would like to post a thread but I cant figure out how? I have a lot to get off my mind :(

amydunn19 10-10-2016 09:23 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
I sent you a message, Sarah!

EDIT Never mind - I see you have a thread. It is Monday;)

farrwf 10-11-2016 06:45 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Great news on Isabelle, ... keep up the good work.

Isabelle 12-23-2016 07:01 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
We are 6 months since Izzy's diabetes diagnosis. She is still not regulated, with levels in the 300's/400's, but it is an improvement from the 500/600 levels when she was initially diagnosed. We have battled 2 UTI's, one when she was first diagnosed and another 5 months later. Her weight loss has stopped and she is holding her own at 24.5 pounds, down from 28 (she need to lose weight before the diabetes). Her thirst seems normal and her activity level is good. Insulin is now at 15 units of humulin N 2x/day. We thought she may have had Cushings, but tests were negative. I am thankful for a wonderful vet - and pet insurance which we started when we adopted her as a chunky (35 pounds!) 3 year old five years ago. This forum is great - I have learned so much and I told my vet who was not aware of it. Thank you all

jesse girl 12-23-2016 07:24 AM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
glad izzy is doing well

regulation can be quite different for each individual dog most dont get to what looks to be normal sugar and some struggle to get into the 100s . some dont fully get regulated for a year and settle into a routine my jesse was one of them and i would say she has never been fully stable and she has been diabetic going on 7 years

I believe as long as your not seeing symptoms of urinating and drinking excessively the body appears to be ok with the levels in blood sugar

Isabelle 01-25-2017 04:22 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
The vet did a curve last Friday and we are perplexed. 350 at 8:00 (breakfast and 15cc of humulin N were given at 6:00am). Her levels steadily rose until 2:30 when the level was 465 and rose to 480 by 4:00. The vet is going to ask some of her colleagues and thinks she may need to switch insulin type. Izzy will be boarded at the vet for 4 days and this will give plenty of opportunity for the vet to check her levels. Her past curves have been in the 400 to 500 ranges but the shape has been better - higher in the morning and afternoon and lower mid day. She was diagnosed in June with levels in the 600's. She has stopped losing weight and her drinking and energy levels seem normal. Any ideas?

jesse girl 01-25-2017 06:00 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Its really hard to say. the numbers must have been lower the previous cycle starting with a fasting at 350 for the curve

may just be an oddball curve . i dont know if you have seen any numbers in the 200s or 100s but if not there maybe an opportunity for a higher dose

levemir is an option being 4 times as potent as nph. some dogs have done well on it who needed a higher dose

Isabelle 01-25-2017 06:05 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
We have never seen numbers in the 100's or 200's since she was diagnosed. The vet thinks either a higher dose or a new type of insulin. Thanks for your insight

MomofGus 01-25-2017 06:06 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
What does your dog weigh and what is her food? It may be very possible that she is one that is going to require much more insulin than average. As an example, my Gus, weighs 20.3 lbs and requires 19 units a day. We did not achieve his good numbers until his 10 month post diagnosis mark. We increased his insulin about every 6 weeks and were to the point of discussion options of a more expensive insulin (levimir) or his just being resistant. When we increased to his current level, everything kicked in. I'm so thankful because the levimir option was going to be very expensive on a monthly basis (around $250 a month vs. the $25/month for Novolin. As a note, your dog can take insulin up to the amount that they weigh - example 20 units for 20 lb dog, but no more. So, if you are at 15, you may be able and want to increase a little further.

Also, I'm curious why you are not doing the curves yourself instead of vetting your dog and paying them to do it? Do you not home test?

Isabelle 01-25-2017 06:34 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
Izzy is 25 pounds and is at 15 units; she was diagnosed 7 months ago. I was fortunate to have started pet insurance when we adopted her almost 6 years ago so I am reimbursed for 90% for all of the diabetes testing, medicine, vet visits which is why I have the curves done at the vets office. Izzy hides when it is time for testing and a day of testing her every few hours is stressful for the entire household. She strides into the vets wagging her tail now - so maybe her favorite vet tech has the magic tough which I wish I had. She eats Royal Canin prescription gastrointestinal kibble mixed with a bit of salmon oil which she has eaten for the past 2 years due to high triglycerides, which are now normal. Her snack is a weight management green right after dinner in the evenings. I am glad to hear that in time her levels may kick in to normal, but for now I am gratified that they are lower and that she has her energy back.

MomofGus 01-25-2017 06:48 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
At least you have seen improvement in her energy and how she is feeling. For the longest time, I was so worried about the higher numbers all the time. I was happy to be in the 300's & 400's on a regular basis. Even at those numbers, my Gus had such an improvement in his actions as well. My vet reminded me that many times they do okay with the higher numbers even though it's not ideal. I am happy I was patient and kept trying the higher insulin amounts until we found what worked. I just pray that we stay at this level of regulation. When we have an off number (high or lower), I just adjust his dry kibble amount that he gets in his meal instead of trying to adjust insulin. I've been able to control things in that manner.

Sorry you feel you can't test at home. It's really not that hard once they get used to the routine. I am lucky, I guess, in that respect that my boy just lays back on my lap and lets me test him, and give me nose kisses as I do so. We test on the paw elbow and have never really had a problem.

I added a tblsp of canned pure pumpkin to his w/d food for added fiber. When we did that, it seemed to help his sugar levels too, as well as provide extra fiber. Perhaps adding that might help? I don't know. If her triglycerides are normal now, maybe switching to a prescription high fiber food, which seems to control sugar levels much better, will help. Have you discussed that with your vet? Just throwing out possibilities here.

Isabelle 01-26-2017 02:24 PM

Re: Newly Diagnosed and Confused
 
I will talk to the vet about the pumpkin. Thanks for the advice


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