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-   -   Been there, Done that- Part II (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811)

stardeb55 04-23-2009 01:28 PM

Been there, Done that- Part II
I had not started a thread for Harley as of yet in the hopes that cc.net would return from the internet nether regions, but looks like that is going to be awhile, so I figured it's time.

When we last left off, Harley had another episode of GI upset, not nearly as severe as his gallbladder attack last fall, but due to some confusion with what my GP vet wanted to do with his lysodren dosage, along with the illness, I went ahead & had him stimmed about 5 weeks early. I must back up to refresh all of our memories about the lyso dosage. About 6 weeks ago, I discovered that Harley had dropped from 14 lbs. to 12.4 lbs for no apparent reason. With the weight loss, that put his current weekly lyso dose of 300 mg., at that point, over max dosage at 54 mg/kg. The GP vet told me that lyso had been know to cause weight loss, so he cut the weekly dose to 225 mg. Harley got sick about a week after the change in dose. With the stim, I also had a chem panel drawn as I was concerned about a possible kidney issue as I had noticed that Harley appeared to be drinking a lot of water, again. Anyway, the stim came back at 7.1 which was slightly lower than Feb.'s result. Harley has been fine running with a post of 7, & the vet doesn't want to attempt to take him lower because of the pre-existing gallbladder condition. Prior to the stim being done, the vet wanted to increase the lyso dose back to what it was. My response was, "HUH:confused:, if this is a Cushing's crash, don't we want to drop the dose even further?" The vet was insistent that it needed to be increased, so that's when I insisted on the stim. The chem panel did show an increased BUN, but a perfectly normal creatinine. When monitoring kidney function, you do look at both numbers, but the creatinine is the more important of the 2. The interesting thing was that Harley's T4 came back at 0.3. After talking to the vet, he added on the free T4 to make sure we weren't looking at a case of sick euthyroid. MIRACLES OF MIRACLES, Harley's free T4 came back perfectly normal. It's about time, the little guy & Mom caught a break.:D;)


Wylie's Mom 04-23-2009 02:32 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Hi Debbie,

I think Wylie is taking cues from Harley - Wylie had his GB attack end of Sept/beginning of Oct, I think about a month after Harley - and last week Wylie had some GI upset. It wasn't as bad as last time, he recovered more quickly, and based on an ultrasound, the IMS said it was not a GB attack or pancreatitis. I think I'm gonna have to keep up with your thread to anticipate what's gonna happen to Wylie:p.


Roxee'sDad 04-23-2009 04:46 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Hi Debbie,
Good to hear Harley (and You) caught a break.

Now bear with me here for a second, the way I understand this is that the vet wanted to increase the dosage but due to your insistance a stim was done (5 weeks early) and a T4 along with a free T4 and since all came back okay. The dosage will remain the same (not increased) as the vet wanted to do in the first place?

Why did the vet think the dosage should be increased before the stim was performed?

This stuff is so complicated, I'm just trying to understand better, I'm glad you guys and gals are here.

John (Roxee's Dad)

stardeb55 04-23-2009 05:46 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Frankly, John, I don't understand the vet's line of reasoning to this day, & neither did Glynda. If there was any suspicion that this GI upset was Cushing's related, the dosage should have been cut down even further than what we had done the week before. I was so confused at that point in time, I felt more comfortable running the stim early to see just exactly where we were, rather than blindly adjusting the dose. This is especially true in light of the weight loss. So right now, the dosing scenario was the following:

Prior to weight loss: 300 mg/week, with a weight of 14 lbs., was 46.9 mg/kg. With the weight loss this dose now shot up to 54 mg/kg.

With the weight loss: 225 mg/week with a weight of 12.4 lbs., was 40.2 mg/kg.

With a stim result having dropped just a hair since Feb. '09, 7.4->7.1, I think, I suggested going up to 250 mg/ weekly, 44.6 mg/kg, the vet was agreeable to this dose. I was also concerned about dropping his mg/kg dose to 40 or lower as the little twerp unloaded on me late last summer when he was at something like 37 mg/kg. I actually, now, split his dose up as 75 mg, 100 mg, & 75 mg on a M, W. Fri. schedule.

The vet is the one who brought to my attention that lyso can cause weight loss, so I wasn't about to let him talk me in to going back up to 300 mg./weekly, especially with no stim. I had thought for about 6 weeks or so, that Harley just looked "bony" & felt "bony" to me. Petting him, you could clearly feel his hip joints, vertebrae, you name it. He had to go in for his rabies shot which is how we discovered that my suspicions about his weight were correct. The vet is the one who ordered the T4, which came back really low at 0.3. I think you have been reading enough to know that Cushpups can have a falsely low T4 reading due to sick euthyroid syndrome, so this is why the free T4 was done. It was perfectly normal, so we aren't dealing with hypothyroid, too.

I'm sure this is as clear as "mud". I still get very confused at times dealing with this dratted disease. I don't know what I'd do if I hadn't had the prior experience with Barkley, my lab tech background, or if I hadn't found all my friends at CC.net.


LuvMyMunchie 04-23-2009 06:40 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Hi Debbie,

How is Harley feeling and doing weight-wise now? Maintaining, gaining...???? Munchie will gladly share his baby scale with Harley!!! :D


stardeb55 04-23-2009 07:01 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Hi, Louise! Harley acts like he feels pretty darn good. Can't give you a specific answer about the weight, I will probably run him in for a weight check tomorrow. I do think that he doesn't feel or look quite as "bony" as he did.


Lulusmom 04-24-2009 05:26 AM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Hi Deb,

I'm happy to hear that Harley is doing much better. I think your plan to up the dose a bit is a sound one and I'm glad your vet agrees.

I was aware that dogs treated with Lysodren lose the weight they gained before treatment due to overeating, fluid retention and redistribution of fat but I have never read anything that mentions weight loss as a side effect of long term use of Lysodren. The next time you see your vet, can you ask him if this is based on his experience or is it something he researched. I am particularly interested because Lulu's weight has been up and down for the past nine months and both of the IM's she has seen in that time never mentioned Lysodren as a possible cause for her weight loss. :confused:

I really need to start a thread myself so I can share Lulu's experience here. It's been interesting to say the least. For a change, Jojo seems to be stable.


stardeb55 04-24-2009 03:39 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Whooo Hoooo!

No more "skinny Minnie" for my boy, he weighed 13.0 lbs. this afternoon. This is up from 12.3 lbs. He still needs to gain about 1 lb.


gpgscott 04-24-2009 03:44 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II
Good new Debbie,

I hope he continues to improve.


LuvMyMunchie 04-24-2009 04:20 PM

Re: Been there, Done that- Part II

No more "skinny Minnie" for my boy, he weighed 13.0 lbs. this afternoon. This is up from 12.3 lbs.
Good going, Harley!! Keep up the good work. :D


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