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-   -   Discussion of Lantus in dogs (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1024)

Patty 05-29-2009 12:51 PM

Discussion of Lantus in dogs
 
Grace,

I was able to get a hold of the vet using Lantus in most of his dogs this afternoon.
  • He has about 20 dogs or so on Lantus, most are under 50 lbs.
  • He's never had it not have an effect in a dog at all but has had some trouble with using it in Cushings dogs because of their bgs bouncing.
  • He says he has rarely had it last more than 12 hours.
  • He usually keeps his patients in the hospital for 3-7 days checking their bg as he regulates. If it looks like duration is not going to go past 12 hours, he adds the 2nd injection.
  • I told him I knew of a couple of dogs that see a peak around 10-12 hours. He said that sounds pretty "normal."
  • He does not have any clients that home test - all monitor with urine strips
  • He does not have any that are on bolus insulin mainly due to the above reason
I asked about Ali specifically ;), though he hasn't seen her, if I decided to switch from Humulin N at 8 1/4u if 6u of Lantus sounded reasonable and he thought it did especially since I home test.

I also asked, since there isn't a lot of info out there on Lantus in dogs, if there was anything else that might be helpful to know in considering this insulin. He said he didn't have any other info to share about Lantus, but that there is a study being done on a new eye drop to prevent cataracts that's showing good results. He said you would need to contact an ophthalmologist regarding the trial medication.

He was very nice and helpful!
Patty

k9diabetes 05-29-2009 04:34 PM

Re: Hello! Rolo and I are new here.
 
Thanks for the good information Patty!

I wouldn't want my dog hospitalized but with Lantus if they're not home testing it really is a roll of the dice and I'd prefer good monitoring.

I got to know Betty the first night Monk was on Lantus because she was concerned about his dosage and reaction and we stayed online quite a while checking on him as she did not home test.

I am always concerned, too, because dog's don't always have a predictable reaction to Lantus. Chris never had a predictable reaction to an insulin so I was very careful when we tried him on Lantus but his reaction was downright scary... First, his blood sugar soared, for hours, with no response to the Lantus. And then it dropped like a rock, hundreds of points in a few hours. It was a nightmare for him.

Natalie

We Hope 05-29-2009 11:12 PM

Re: Hello! Rolo and I are new here.
 
What's available on the internet about Lantus use in dogs is not complimentary. It's a totally different story regarding its use with cats.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...ID=1&sk=&date=

Evaluating the array of insulin products for companion animals
DVM 360 magazine September, 7, 2007

Dr. Anthony Abrams-Ogg, at the 2007 American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Forum in Seattle, lectured on "Chemistry and Pharmacology of Therapeutic Insulin Preparations."

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...date=&pageID=3

"The use of glargine is increasing in cats as a long-acting substitute for human Ultralente and alternative to beef and beef/pork PZI. Its use results in improved glycemic control when used once or twice daily, but, as with other long-acting insulins in cats, glycemic control is best with twice-daily administration. Pharmacokinetic studies in normal dogs demonstrate erratic absorption. "

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html...d=0-Comparison

COMPARISON OF THE PHARMACODYNAMICS AND PHARMACOKINETICS OF SUBCUTANEOUS GLARGINE, PROTAMINE ZINC, AND LENTE INSULIN PREPARATIONS IN HEALTHY DOGS

ACVIM 2004

VJ Stenner, LM Fleeman, and JS Rand. Centre for Companion Animal Health, School of Veterinary Science, The University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia.

"The pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic effects of glargine, a recombinant human insulin analogue, protamine zinc beef-pork insulin (PZI), and a purified pork lente insulin preparation were evaluated in 9 healthy neutered dogs (4 male, 5 female).

"Serum glucose concentration was significantly decreased in all dogs following the administration of lente and PZI insulin, and in 7 of 9 dogs following glargine administration. Two dogs showed no significant change in serum glucose concentration after glargine administration and were excluded from the analysis of glargine pharmacodynamic data.

"Following glargine administration, there was a trend for peak insulin concentrations to occur between 0.5 and 6hr. The serum insulin concentrations did not exceed the critical difference in 3 dogs following glargine and in 2 of these dogs, there was no significant glucose-lowering effect.

"We conclude that in healthy dogs:

"3) Glargine administration results in an unpredictable serum insulin concentration response and, in some dogs, fails to produce a significant glucose-lowering effect."

Drs. Rand and Fleeman are well-known for their many studies involving Lantus and cats, so they can hardly be said to be biased against the insulin.

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link3.pdf

Rand and Fleeman's dosing protocol for Lantus or Levemir in cats

http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link1.pdf

Rand and Fleeman's dosing protocol for Lente, NPH, PZI and Levemir in dogs. Lantus is mentioned for cats but not dogs.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/pe...roceedings.pdf

Royal Canin-OSU Endocrinology Symposium 2006
Selecting an Insulin for Treating Diabetes Mellitus in Dogs and Cats
Richard Nelson, US-Davis

Page 40

"In my experience, insulin glargine has a duration of effect ranging from 10 to 16 hours in most diabetic dogs and cats."

"My experience with insulin glargine in diabetic dogs has been mixed and somewhat disappointing."

So we have four specialists here, saying Lantus is not reliable and even disappointing, whether the dog is diabetic or not. It doesn't seem possible that all four of them have an anti-Lantus bias, but that in their considerable experiences, it didn't live up to expectations for the most part.

No insulin, no matter what it is, is panacea in a vial; some will have success with it and others will not.


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