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-   -   Grand Lady Snickers passes away April 21, 2019 (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7712)

LizE 01-18-2016 11:52 AM

Grand Lady Snickers passes away April 21, 2019
Snickers, a Skye Terrier mix, was part of a litter of puppies that was left at a shelter in the early winter of 2000 when they were only several weeks old. Shy and reserved she wouldn't even bark for the first month or so. Eventually her true terrier colors emerged and she grew into a beautiful dog.

Fast forward 15 years. She is doing pretty well for her age with some loss of hearing and vision (not cataracts). She tore her acl in 2010 and that slowed her down a little but not too bad. She walks everyday no matter what the weather.

Then in November 2015 she got a uti. She didn't completely recover from that and that's when she got very sick very fast and was diagnosed with diabetes in early December. Her numbers (pretty much everything they tested) were very bad and the vet felt the only way she might recover would be with round the clock care. Unfortunately my vet and does not do overnight supervision so we would have had to go to an emergency clinic for proper care.

He warned us about the costs to treat her and honestly felt that at her age, there was probably another underlying problem, like cancer, that was not diagnosed and we could spend a lot of money and still lose her.

We opted to treat Snickers on an outpatient basis, and honestly I was just hoping to keep her alive long enough for my son to finish his finals and make it home to say goodbye to her. She was vomiting, not eating, had lost a lot of weight and was leaking urine at night. Needless to say there were lots of tears, lots of prayers.

Well, Snickers fooled us all and has recovered quite nicely, with no small thanks to this forum. It's not totally smooth sailing but after a bumpy start her numbers are settling down and we have gone almost a month without another uti.

One of our biggest challenges is getting Snickers to eat, especially on a schedule, especially in the morning. We were given an appetite stimulant to use but I only like to give it to her when she won't eat, not as a default, partly to monitor how she is feeling.

Snickers is currently about 35 lbs, takes 11 units of Novolin N twice a day, and uses a Reli On human meter for testing. I used to feed her a rotation of grain free food (I would change food often as she becomes bored with her food and changing brands did not seem to cause her any distress) but now I suspect those that contain potatoes cause her problems so I'm down to only to varieties at this point - one from Earthborn and one from Natural Balance. She also gets a glucosamine treat, a collagen pill and d-mannose.

Again, I can't stress enough how helpful everyone here has been and how often I've used the links to videos (bg testing here's looking at you). At 15, Snickers has a limited time left and making everything as painless and stress free as possible can only enhance her quality of life. Thank you so much for everything!

CraigM 01-18-2016 12:13 PM

Re: Snickers' story
Welcome to the forum! I copied your post from the biography into a fresh thread just for you and Snickers. You seem to be doing great!


k9diabetes 01-18-2016 01:07 PM

Re: Snickers' story
What a lovely first post!!! :) And I'm glad you put it in the Stories section as it's a great testament to these dogs' ability to persevere and defy the odds and predictions.

For whatever reason, a lot of dogs don't like to eat in the morning. If it is just too much of a pain to manage, you can give insulin using a different regimen where she would get a small dose of insulin and no food at breakfast - 1/4-1/2 or so of the normal dose - and then a large dose and her full day's calories at dinner time - probably more than she now gets at dinner because she would eat more food at that meal.

Since you're home testing you can work on something like this.

Or, you can offer her breakfast and if she eats give insulin as normal and if she doesn't, give her a small dose.

Only about 1/2 of the insulin given goes to the meal. The rest maintains their basal blood sugar level. So they can have some insulin with no food on board.


LizE 01-18-2016 01:35 PM

Re: Snickers' story

Thanks for the response. Friday morning she wouldn't eat anything, even people food so I opted not to give her any insulin. She was at 141 (unadjusted Relion #) and I wasn't going to be around to watch her.

Three hours later she was at 208 so not the end of the world. I gave her 1/4 cup of food but no insulin because I was afraid of it overlapping with her next dose and again, I wasn't going to be around again for several hours after her evening meal and dose.

Glad to know about the basal blood sugar requirements. I was too afraid to dose her and my vet recommended erring on the high side.


jesse girl 01-18-2016 01:45 PM

Re: Snickers' story
my jesse is a dog that only gets one meal a day and a small snack

so there are options if its just going to be a fight for the long haul

probably wouldn't get a vet to buy into something like this and would work but it has for jesse 6 years later and doing well

the key to this disease is consistency in the routine you are doing . jesse routine is consistent

k9diabetes 01-18-2016 01:45 PM

Re: Snickers' story
You usually want to start conservatively - maybe 1/4 of the usual dose. See how that goes and raise it if need be. Our dog could take about half his usual dose without insulin.


farrwf 01-19-2016 07:40 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Great introduction. Welcome to the best place in the known universe for doggy diabetes information, advice & fellowship!

Looking forward to following Snickers' journey for years to come.

LizE 01-31-2016 08:27 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Snickers just threw up all of her breakfast right after she was done with her walk, about an hour after after I gave her 11 units of insulin.

I gave her some chicken and alpo snaps and some other treats. It takes a lot of coaxing to get her to eat dog food so I just wanted to get some food into her as soon as possible. She seems fine but I'm pretty worried about her having all that insulin and not a lot of food.

How worried should I be?

jesse girl 01-31-2016 08:39 AM

Re: Snickers' story
i might not have given a full dose of insulin without a full meal and a possible upset belly so i would watch blood sugar today and formulate a plane for the second meal if you are still having a problem

my thought with any upset stomach and no desire to eat i would stay away from force feeding and maybe fast a dog for at least one meal

you usually can give a quarter of the normal dose without any food . testing blood sugar is preferred with this method and if blood sugar is at a lower level at fasting it maybe prudent to skip a dose . the more food consumed the more insulin you maybe able to give

hope snickers feel better

LizE 01-31-2016 08:45 AM

Re: Snickers' story
She ate a full breakfast, then I gave her the dose, then she threw it all up.

She didn't seem like she was feeling bad but I did try a new brand of food this morning. I have no idea if that's what made her sick or if she is just being a dog and happened to throw up.

I know they say to watch for lethargy but she's 15 so she sleeps the vast majority of the day even when she's feeling great.

jesse girl 01-31-2016 09:04 AM

Re: Snickers' story
oh i see it sounds like the food change maybe the culprit

i give jesse a teaspoon of honey to lick off the spoon when blood sugar is lower but we must remember the affects of pure sugar may only last up to an hour at most and then sugar can start dropping again

i would not hesitate to give some snacks throughout the day if not testing blood sugar . shaking and some panic can be a sign of low blood sugar . severely disorientated maybe on the threshold of a seizure from low sugar

usually lethargy can be a symptom leading up to low blood sugar but it also can be spiking or dropping sugar or lower or higher sugar so thats a difficult symptom to get the full story

amydunn19 01-31-2016 01:10 PM

Re: Snickers' story
Do you have any of the old food that you could use to mix the new in slowly?

LizE 01-31-2016 02:26 PM

Re: Snickers' story

Originally Posted by amydunn19 (Post 152190)
Do you have any of the old food that you could use to mix the new in slowly?

Yeah, normally she does not have any problems switching different foods, different brands. Since she was diagnosed we've been using Earthborn and it's worked pretty good but she tires of her food so in the past we always rotated.

Last week we tried Nutri Source which seemed to work really well for her blood glucose but she didn't really like it and it was getting to be an ordeal to get her to eat it. Friday morning she wouldn't eat it at all so today I decided to try a Natural Balance variety. Couldn't tell if it was the food that made her sick or what but I'm reluctant to try it again.

I suspect that foods with potatoes or rice give her problems so that has been the challenge - to find foods without those ingredients. I kept giving her snacks today - these omega 3 treats she has - and her glucose shot up to over 400! Her bg stayed pretty good the first couple of hours after she vomited but after those treats it went up almost 300 points.

I've suspected fish oil as being a problem for her and cut it out for a while. I don't think I'll go back to that either.

amydunn19 01-31-2016 03:00 PM

My dog can't eat potatoes or rice either. She likes the taste but those ingredients don't like her.

Nutrisca is a brand you might try with no potato or rice. Dogs seem to like it. I usually don't push brands but finding something with no potato or rice is tough because most can be very high protein.

Is it possible the food was bad? Does it smell funny?

LizE 01-31-2016 03:20 PM

Re: Snickers' story

Originally Posted by amydunn19 (Post 152197)
My dog can't eat potatoes or rice either. She likes the taste but those ingredients don't like her.

Nutrisca is a brand you might try with no potato or rice. Dogs seem to like it. I usually don't push brands but finding something with no potato or rice is tough because most can be very high protein.

Is it possible the food was bad? Does it smell funny?

I think the food was ok. I'm not even sure that's what caused Snickers to get sick but she wasn't that excited about the food either so I think I will just return it.

I'm thinking about trying Nutrisca but I can't buy it locally so I would have to order it. I usually try to get things locally so I don't have to plan ahead and order or be worried that something will arrive on time. But I really want to be able to rotate food so I think I will give it a try.

amydunn19 01-31-2016 04:24 PM

I rotate the flavors of Nutrisca - chicken, lamb and salmon. If you do try Nutrisca, I will tell you that we went from 5 units of insulin down to 2.5 units. Are you testing blood sugar? If not, I would. Low glycemic food can be tricky and it doesn't work for everyone. It can cause lows - maggie gets 4 meals (things like frozen yogurt(yoghund) and a carby bones or freeze dried meats). Low glycemic food can need what I call propping up to have staying power but it could just be her.

LizE 02-17-2016 08:56 AM

Re: Snickers' story
So this morning I gave Snicker's a fur shot. I've been trying to be careful with the shots because she was having pain with them initially but this morning it just went wrong.

Do you just leave it as is? I feel terrible because this morning she ate all her food without much fuss and her numbers were a little high.

jesse girl 02-17-2016 10:10 AM

Re: Snickers' story
the thing about fur shots is do you know for sure that no insulin got into the body ? if not most dont repeat with another shot but if you want to make a few more tests today you maybe able to give a quarter of the dose maybe up to an hour after meal but i could see 2 hours because the shot is so much smaller

chrmyr 02-17-2016 06:11 PM

Re: Snickers' story
We have had similar issues as our girl is young and this is our first at this. Definitely tely don't try again as you can never be sure if you got any in or not. We waited till it was time for the next shot but we will be started to test at ho!e next week.

LizE 02-18-2016 08:15 AM

Re: Snickers' story
I opted to wait and not give her another shot. Numbers were high last night and again this morning as expected. I'm pretty sure I missed her completely. She even sat and looked at me before the walk like she knew she didn't get any insulin and she needed a real shot .

But she's been acting normal with no excessive thirst or urination. Could be worse I guess.

Monsters Momma 02-18-2016 09:33 AM

Re: Snickers' story

Originally Posted by LizE (Post 152748)
So this morning I gave Snicker's a fur shot. I've been trying to be careful with the shots because she was having pain with them initially but this morning it just went wrong.

Do you just leave it as is? I feel terrible because this morning she ate all her food without much fuss and her numbers were a little high.

We recently missed a shot with Vinny too...although ours was due to forgetfulness and not a fur shot. :o Couldn't figure out why he was so high! Oh well, they survive, as you have found out! :)

Hang in there!
Mel and Vinny

LizE 03-21-2016 01:53 PM

Re: Snickers' story
So today Snickers had a physical. The vet said she has a slight heart murmur. He graded it a II. This wasn't her regular vet - there are three at the practice but I voluntarily will see any of them - but no one has noticed this before.

Starting tomorrow (after she's not so stressed from the visit to the vet) I have to start tracking her resting respiratory rate and send it to them. Should I be worried? Is this the beginning of the end?

I feel like we are just getting the diabetes thing figured out and now this. I didn't realize she was getting a physical today, thought she was just getting her dhp and bordetella updated so I wasn't prepared with any numbers for the vet. I'm about the only person at the practice who tests at home so he wasn't concerned about that too much - he thought that all her clinical signs looked good.

Anyway, I know that until I get the respiratory rate collected I won't know more but all my friends have young healthy puppies so I can't unload on them so you all get to hear about it.

amydunn19 03-21-2016 06:15 PM

Re: Snickers' story
My schnauzer has a grade 3 heart murmur. I don't know why you should have to monitor respiration at this point - we don't do anything like that. We try to have her ultrasound done every year to see progression. My schnauzer has zero problems. We try not to get her out when it is too hot in the summer walking or running because she pants really hard but she has zero symptoms day to day. They can go years at grade two and not progress until much later.

LizE 03-22-2016 08:09 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Thanks for the encouragement. They just want me to get a baseline on her resting rate for future reference. She was pretty stressed at the vet yesterday so he didn't feel like they could get any accurate idea of how she is really doing. If it's over 30 breaths/min they might do an x-ray but it's in a wait and see mode right now.

amydunn19 03-22-2016 02:53 PM

The vet's office is literally the worst place to get a read on a dog and how they are - stress plays such a role in how they feel.

LizE 12-05-2016 09:14 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Last week marked Snicker's One Year Sugarversary! We couldn't have done it without this forum to help us through it all. We are so grateful for all of the help and support. While Snickers is not a very difficult case compared to others she will be turning 16 in the next couple of weeks. Every extra day with her is a blessing.

For much of the year I've had limited internet access (by either choice or by happenstance) and have not checked in on this site very often so I'll give a quick update on Snickers.

She has lost almost all of her vision and hearing and gets around primary by memory and smell. She gets one big "walk" in the morning - mostly a lot of sniffing and ideally some interaction with one of the neighborhood dogs. Otherwise she sleeps. A lot. So much so that we always check to see if she's still breathing when we walk past her.

While it probably sounds depressing Snickers is pretty happy and has more than enough "Puppy Attitude" to convince us that she still loves getting up every morning. This fall we took her tailgating to an Iowa State game and she was so excited! She has her own stroller because of her limited mobility so she was in full princess mode, right in her element.

I"m so sorry to read of all the furry friends here that have passed these last several months. Each story is so heart wrenching. It's so difficult when some of our greatest joys in life also eventually lead to such overwhelming sadness. My thoughts and prayers to everyone that has suffered a loss.

I'll try to be better about checking in - especially if it's good news.

jesse girl 12-05-2016 10:48 AM

Re: Snickers' story
congrats on the one year milestone that first year is quite a bit a learning curve

it sounds like your in a nice routine with snickers and thats pretty good for a 16 year old pup still enjoying a dogs life

Auddog 12-05-2016 03:31 PM

Congratulations on your 1 year Sugar-versary!!
I've always been of the mind set that if our older pups still have a joy for life and want to get out of bed in the morning there's no reason not to let them stick around. It's really nice to hear these positive updates :)
Good Job to you and Snickers!!

farrwf 12-06-2016 04:03 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Congrats to you and Snickers on the milestone!

LizE 07-24-2017 12:11 PM

Re: Snickers' story
Snickers had a terrible bout of diarrhea in the night. She had a pretty normal day yesterday although a couple of hours after supper I noticed she didn't seem well but nothing overwhelming

Since this morning she had gone outside about every one to two hours and with a little bit of diarrhea (there is almost nothing left in her system) but she doesn't seem to be acting like she feels that bad but she has had nothing to eat or drink since she got up.

I'm not worried about her not eating but I'm getting concerned about the not drinking. She has not vomited. Could this be pancreatitis?

How long do you wait until you have her checked by the vet? She gets pretty stressed out there so I try to avoid unnecessary visits.

jesse girl 07-24-2017 12:46 PM

Re: Snickers' story
thats a difficult question to answer

pancreatitis is very serious and if you catch it early thats a very good thing

i think it hurts to eat and drink and actually when my jesse had it there was no food or water for 3 days but received IV fluids

i do believe in fasting a dog for 24 hours with digestive issues .it could be something that he can get over without a vets intervention or it could be something more serious just dont know

hope snickers gets better soon

Judi 07-24-2017 12:57 PM

Re: Snickers' story
my non-diabetic dog had a bout of this a few weeks ago but he was drinking and eating. I couldn't reach the vet to get some of the stop diarrhea medication so I found some slippery elm capsules at a health food store (human). I googled for dosage, put it on his food, and he got over it

We did the 24 hour no food thing first

Is she listless? I would stick with the no eating but see if you can tempt her to drink.

CraigM 07-24-2017 02:21 PM

Re: Snickers' story
I might also think about giving probiotics to get the gut flora back to normal? There are many types, but this is the one Annie seems to like the taste. Annie is a small dog, so I give packet at each meal. I don't think there are dosage recommendations on the box, so you might want a full packet to get the probiotics started. https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Fortif...dog+probiotics You can probably get this, or other brands, at any pet store.


LizE 07-25-2017 07:19 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Ok - after one heck of a day she appears to be completely normal this morning and has her appetite back and even drank some water!

I have no idea what happened to her - I've never seen her have such stomach issues - I'm going to have to sanitize my entire first floor. My big concern is that there didn't seem to be anything that brought it on.

Will definitely be looking at those probiotics since she was so sick.

Thanks for keeping me calm!

jesse girl 07-25-2017 01:30 PM

Re: Snickers' story
glad snickers is doing better

LizE 01-04-2018 10:19 AM

Re: Snickers' story
Just a quick update on Snickers. Last month she reached both her 2nd Sugarversary and her 17th birthday!

As if that wasn't enough my son got married last week and she had to spend a night at the kennel. Snickers hasn't been kenneled since her diagnosis but she came through with flying colors. She loves the kennel and the kennel owner so it was not stressful for her and the caretaker was grateful to see her again.

Otherwise, she is doing well (except for the loss of vision and hearing) and seems pretty happy.

I'm trying to include a picture of Snickers in the snow the morning of the wedding but I don't see it in the preview. Needless to say, she's one of the few that enjoys this weather!

jesse girl 01-04-2018 01:31 PM

Re: Snickers' story
congratulations on the 2 year milestone and the 17th birthday wow

weddings are so much fun especially when they are a child of yours .

keep up the good work

MikeMurphy 01-04-2018 01:44 PM

Re: Snickers' story
Congratulations to you and Snickers. 17 years is amazing!

LizE 07-13-2018 07:54 AM

Help! I accidentally gave my dog too much insulin!
I just gave Snickers too much insulin. She didn't eat her breakfast so I gave her half a dose. Went for her walk, she came in, ate her food and then instead of giving her the last half of her dose I gave her a full dose. She normally gets 8 and she got a total of 12 this morning!

Her BG was really high this morning but I can't believe I did this. I just gave her a bunch of extra chicken and an alpo snap but what's my best strategy now. Give her extra food now and or later? Give syrup now and or later?

How often should I test her? Every hour? Half hour? I'm just sick that I spaced off like this. Please Help!

farrwf 07-13-2018 08:04 AM

Re: Help! I accidentally gave my dog too much insulin!
Just keep your Karo syrup or honey handy. I'd check her hourly for the next few hours & keep a close eye on her behaviors. She should be ok, under your close monitoring.

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