New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

[Tiffany618]

Good Evening Everyone,

My name is Tiffany and my furbaby is Cosmo. He is 11 years old, but very full of life. He was recently diagnosed with diabetes (about 2 months ago) and has been slowly losing weight since then.

We are not 100% regulated, but getting closer. Cosmo is a 35 pound lab mix (was about 45 pounds prior to this experience). He is up to 15 units Humulin N, 2x per day. We are not currently home testing, but after reading through the forum I have made the decision to purchase a meter and attempt it.

Forgive me if this has been asked, but I did read through recent posts and didn't see anything quite like this. Our vet immediately put him on Hill's W/D canned (1/3 can) and dry food (1 cup) twice per day and we did okay with that for a bit.

Fast forward a few weeks, and Cosmo would not touch the W/D Dry even when mixed with the canned. We have transitioned him over to Wellness Core Reduced Fat dry food mixed with the canned WD. Unfortunately, he is still dropping weight.

Is there anything we can do to help him maintain/gain weight? Anything safe for us to add to his meals/snacks? Once he is regulated, will this stabilize on its own? I'm very concerned, because no matter how much we are able to get him to eat, he is still wasting away.

Any thoughts, ideas, or input you have are sincerely appreciated. Thank you!

[nibbles-mommy]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

i am going through the same thing my dog nibbles. read his thread below.this time last year we were trying to make his lose weight because he weighed around 65lbs. now he's 35lbs. he was also diagnosed with cushings and but on medication that i believe took away his appetite. everyone here is very helpful and will begin to post. i just went and biought puppy food for him tonite and he ate it all! it's so hard looking at them so thin. i don't think i even realized it until recently how bad it got.he's is also a very picky eater.

[Tiffany618]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Oh my goodness, poor Nibbles! I hope that you are able to get his weight stabilized.

I can relate to the picky eating. Cosmo can certainly be that way and it is so heartbreaking! One way or another we get the food in him, but it is often not fun.

[MaryLea]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Welcome to the forum! Although I have no experience with needing my fur baby to gainweight, I'm sure someone will chime in with some suggestions, because others here have been through similar experiences to yours.

For now, I just want to encourage you; this is a great place for support. The more information you can give us about Cosmo, the better. Congratulations on deciding to test his BGs! The results will give you and us some idea of what might be going on.

I know it's frustrating to watch, but remember: Cosmo doesn't know he has diabetes. He's one lucky pup to have a HumanMom who cares and is doing so much for him.

Don't worry about posting too much or asking questions which have been asked before. You couldn't possibly read all the posts here and know what's already been said. Someone may point you to some threads which might be helpful to you.

Hang in there! Watching and cheering you on,

Mary

[SandyL]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Welcome Tiffany and Cosmo!!

Glad you've decided to home test!! Makes dealing with a picky eater a lot easier

My Tiggy is also very picky, so much so that at the beginning I would sit on the floor and hand feed her!!! My vet also suggested a prescription diet, but I knew she wouldn't go for it, so I basically kept her on the same kind of food she's always eaten. Even doing that she began to loose weight at the beginning. I decided then that I had to increase her food intake and adjust her insulin accordingly.

Instead of feeding her the same food every day, I go by calories. She's 15lbs and gets 500 calories a day (up from 400). I feed her 1/3 cup boiled chicken, 1/3 cup wet dog food, 2 Tbs chopped thin spagetti and 1 tsp benefiber per meal...... I vary the varieties of wet food so that she'll eat, but they all have about the same amount of caloric content. This has worked pretty well for us. She's doing great and maintains a healthy weight!

Patty.... One of the admins on the forum gave me this web site when I was worried about her weight loss. Check it out, it might be of some help!!!

http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.

Sandy

[Patty]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Hi Tiffany and welcome to you and Cosmo!

Part of the problem with uncontrolled diabetes is that sustained higher blood sugar levels prevent the body from utilizing the nutrients efficiently. So you could feed as much food as you wanted but without adequate insulin to carry the glucose into the cells, it stays in the blood stream and the dog continues to lose weight.

The good news is that most dogs are able to regain the weight lost as their blood sugar becomes better controlled.

Do you know what his blood sugar was on his last curve at the vet's office? If not, I would ask for copies of this.

Also, do you know approximately how many calories he was eating to maintain his weight prior to diabetes? I would calculate how much you're giving now to see if it comes close to that. Often with the w/d, you have to feed more of it to match the calories of some other foods. The link Sandy gave has 2 calculators that can help estimate how much he should get for what you consider his ideal weight.

Glad you're considering home testing. It's a great tool to have. I like the OneTouch Ultra2 meter. Amazon carries it for around $20 vs. $65 in retail stores. The test strips are usually the most exensive part. I buy mine on ebay (watch for good expiration dates and factory sealed boxes). Others use Amazon or other online sources for cheaper strips.

Depending on where you test, I also like the AccuChek Softclix lancing device (not the plus or multiclix).

Hope that helps. Again, welcome to you!
Patty

[jim maceri]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Welcome Tiffany and Hi Cosmo.....

You've located a great resource here and everyone will be willing to help with suggestions and sharing experience. My vet also suggested Hills WD kibble with Hills WD can...my guy was on Wellness super 5 mix prior to that. He wasn't crazy about the kibble or can at all but after reading the forum I came up with a diet he LOVES...

I mixed the WD kibble with the wellness super 5 mix in 70/30 mixture. (70% hills/30% wellness) I then took the can of food and put it in the blender with 1-1/2 cans of water added and blended to make a gravy. Since my guy loves chicken, we boil boneless chicken breasts and shred them up, store in tupperware.

For my big 125# guy he gets...

2 cups kibble
1 cup shredded chicken
8oz liquid gravy heated 20 seconds to get warm in micro....
fed 2x per day

HE LOVES IT......of course you will have to determine what quantities to feed for your size dog. After loosing almost 19 pounds in total my guy has been stable now at 125 pounds for several weeks. He was only diagnosed 6-7 weeks ago and was dropping weight fast. For his bone structure both the vet and I think that is his ideal weight.

Anyway, you will get lots of great ides and information here....welcome again. We look forward to hearing your progress so post and you WILL get a lot of support. Great to hear you are willing to do home testing...If I had to pick one thing that will improve your success at controlling diabetes that would be it!

[ozzi]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Hi Tiffany,

Like Cosmo, Ozzi lost quite a bit of weight in the beginning of his diabetes diagnosis. He lost 16% of his body mass, and from my calculations, Cosmo has lost 22%. I don't think this is unusual at first, although it is alarming to us. As Patty pointed out, it's really about regulation, at least in the beginning.

How are Cosmo's BG numbers running? If you can post his last curve, that would be really helpful. Regarding home testing, I was happy to see you write that you are willing to learn! I know I sound like a broken record, but I'll say it again. I believe that home testing is the single most important thing you can do for your dog.

Sometimes dogs with high sugar eat like crazy, and sometimes the high sugar can make them not feel well, so they won't eat. It varies because all dogs are different. With better regulation, I suspect you will see Cosmo at least maintain his weight, and I would look at that as a short term goal, and then consider weight gain as a longer term goal, unless he is in fact already running between 100-200 during the day.

Welcome to the forum. Ask questions like crazy and give us as much information as you can. Everyone here is awesome and will help you in every way possible.

Kevin

[Tiffany618]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! I have spent hours upon hours reading, crying (some of the interwebz make it sound like a death sentence), and trying to figure out what the right things to do are. It is wonderful how supportive of a group you have here!

I don't know what his curve looks like exactly, I will need to check with the vet. I know his # last time we went in was in the high 300's in the AM, after meal but before insulin shot. The vet did not seem alarmed, and increased his insulin from 12 units twice a day to 15. It all seems so arbitrary. I feel confident that I will understand this a lot more once I can home test.

Our vet is super sweet to Cosmo and cares for him very well, yet they are not very supportive when I ask about home testing and what to feed him...so that's why I am here. We are going rogue.

Sandy - Thank you so much for the link, I am going to read it now.

Jim - WD GRAVY!! That is BRILLIANT!!

[Abby's Mom]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Welcome...

Abby lost alot of weight (some of which was good) initially... She lost a good 8-10 lbs. She has been steady, but one thing I did add to her food, which seemed to help quite a bit, was prozyme. This aids in digestion, and also will soothe some upset tummies as well.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/prozyme...M=EGCA&lppc=16


But as everyone stated, once Cosmo becomes regulated, you will see them become more steady in their weight (possible gain) if given the same amount of calories.

You found a wonderful forum, and the first BIG step in helping Cosmo.

[Patty]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

I don't know what his curve looks like exactly, I will need to check with the vet. I know his # last time we went in was in the high 300's in the AM, after meal but before insulin shot. The vet did not seem alarmed, and increased his insulin from 12 units twice a day to 15. It all seems so arbitrary. I feel confident that I will understand this a lot more once I can home test.

A curve is where blood sugar is tested at fasting (before food/insulin) then every 2 hours after until next shot time. This allows you to see the pattern of how well your dog's food and insulin are working together and what the low and high points are.

You really can only increase insulin based on the lowest point of the day. So if insulin is increased based on 1 reading only, you can see how that might be worrisome as your dog may be going lower later in the day.

Here's a great article that talks about the food and insulin balance http://www.k9diabetes.com/insulinfood.html

Patty

[Tiffany618]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Good Afternoon Everyone.

It has been a roller coaster ride these past few weeks. Cosmo is still not regulated, still losing weight, and went blind basically over night (and not doing well with it at all, either). He also has a pretty bad eye infection that we are currently treating with ointment.

For a while before the blindness set in, he really seemed to be doing better so I stopped panicing and trusted the vet.. Then, we took him in after Christmas and his BG was almost 500.

This week, he has gone in at 2 pm every day to be checked. On Monday, they had him on 17 units 2x daily. His reading was 396. They upped him to 20 units. Checked Tuesday, he was about 450. They upped him to 22 units, and today it was back in the 390s.... so she upped him to his max (apparently?) at 25 units and she wants to check him on Friday. Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about the way this is being handled? He has never shown any signs of going too low, so I guess that is not a major concern right at this point....but still.

Also, he is still eating 1.5 cup WD dry and 1/3 can WD 2x daily, with some boiled chicken mixed in. The vet is insistent that this is the right diet (and discouraged the grain free Wellness Core Red. Fat that I was mixing in), but I can't help but feel like I'm hurting my dog for giving him food that has essentially carbohydrates for the first several ingredients.

I got a meter, but have not had success in getting blood (even the vet has issues) I really feel like I need to figure out a way to make it work for us, so that I can do a complete curve, and perhaps start making slow diet changes and see if I can make a difference on my own.


Thanks for listening. I'm not even sure that I really even asked any questions here.... I just needed to get it all out. I read all of your stories about your loveable girls and boys, but don't usually post because I really just feel like a failure at this.

[nibbles-mommy]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

My Nibbles went blind overnight almost 9 months ago and he (and us) is still not comfortable with it. He is 16yo.

I'm sure everyone will start to chime in and I think we're all gonna say the same thing. I think I understand from the post that he is being tested once a day everyday at 2pm, correct? My vet and everyone here has always said to leave a dose unchanged for at least 5 days for it to settle. There may not be immediate action and may take a few days to kick in. But with only testing once per day, there's no way to know what the lows are. He may be going lower at some point and you really can't base a dose change on 1 reading.

If he has an infection, that will also raise his bg and the antibiotics will also , so that is something to keep an eye on when finishing the meds and the infection is gone. You're gonna have to be careful he does't go low.

As for the food, Nibbles is very picky and when I asked the vet about changing his diet at the beginning he said give him what he likes, and work around with the dose. I just recently found that he actually LIKES Wellness canned food. He has't really been giving problems eating since the change. (knock on wood) Nibbles lost a ton of weight since last year and he still isn't regulated. He was doing good for a while and I only started testing him last month because he went low and had a seizure. Now we are trying to work up slowly to the proper dose with his numbers ranging from 200-400 on different days.

It's ok for him to be a little high and go slow with the dose. I figure He is already blind now so it can't hurt to be high a little for some time. Just not extend.

[jesse girl]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

what are the difficulties you are having in home testing and your vet in testing

basing a dose on one reading in the day believing it maybe the low point may not be a good idea as patty said below

if the curve has to be done at the vet is ok they will have to figure how to get samples throughout the day

a diabetic can easily be overdosed to give the appearance of high blood sugar but in reality the body is just preserving life through its internal reserves

my jesse at the beginning would be at 70 3 hour after shot and could be at 400 3 hours lafter that so if we never tested that earlier number and based everything on the high number she could go lower than that 70 and could cause higher numbers as you say a roller coaster ride

you need at least a fasting number before shot and food maybe 3 hour after that then at 2 pm and fasting before shot and meal at a minimum which would be a mini curve just to get an idea on dosing anything other than that you are just grabbing straws in the dark even with allot of testing as i do with jesse its still not easy she is a bit unstable and without for her it would be impossible

so lets us know the problem with testing that is your best chance of figuring what to do if its impossible and for me i believe there is always a way when push comes to shove the vet will have to do it we are here to help

[Judi]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Hang in there on the blindness. I went through a 4 - 6 week pity party when Jenny lost her vision and everyone on this site was so helpful and encouraging. Somewhere I found a link to a video Natalie had made of her Chris when he was tired and doing his ping pong imitation bonking into a few things.

It made me realize that Jenny will have good days and bad days but this is her reality and she is dealing with it.

She lost her sight on Labor Day and after about 2 months she was finally less tentative and more like her old self. She wrestles, attempts to chase a stuffed toy if I throw it, and will do anything EXCEPT walk down the stairs (I baby her).

Someone new came to our house over New Years and couldn't tell which of my dogs was blind.

It really does get easier. And this is long enough so I won't even START on the home testing but hang in there, they have blood somewhere you just have to warm their little body parts up! Judi