Gretel is now our angel

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

I don't think they would have a lot of calories and should be mostly protein.

Ew.... Although I'm willing to scoop up earwigs - unlike a lot of other things - they are nasty. We have "house centipedes" that are far worse. You can sneeze at them and they fall apart but they are fast fast fast and I'm still not touchin' em with my hands or even a kleenex.

If my husband isn't available to rescue me, it's spray them or vacuum them unless something is really small!

Natalie

[diggydog]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Hi Carolyn,

When I had Alfie on w/d dry I swear he was a complete nightmare. He would cry during the night to go outside but its was sticks he wanted out to eat.
I started adding some green veg to his w/d, usually green beans and broccoli or some cabbage. I didnt cure the stick eating but it did fill him up more and stopped him wanting out during the night.
I wasn't home testing at the time he was on w/d but I spoke to a nutritionist at Hills and she was the 1 that reccomnended the green veg as it doesn't impact the blood sugar a whole lot. Now I took her word for it but as I wasn't testing I dont really know for sure but I think I read on some1 elses thread that they also added green veg to bulk out food as it doesn't cause a significant increase in bg.

Allison & Alfie

[CoolGram]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Hi Allison,

Ever since Grete'ls been on w/d she seems always hungry. She was on the w/d wet and dry mixed for quite a while, but then due to high triglycerides the vet switched her to all dry. I think her hunger has gotten even worse since she's on the all dry, even though the calorie count is the same. Unfortunately, I can never add anything to her diet without taking into consideration her bladder stone issues, so I have to be very careful about that in addition to her being diabetic. Most often those two conditions are at odds with one another.

I'm placing a call to the vet to see what else I might be able to give her a little bit of that would take the edge off the appetite and make her feel more satisfied without messing up everything else.

Isn't it awful to see your dog acting so hungry and not being able to give them what they're hungry for? Someone else said it here on the forum too, but I sometimes just long for the days when I just fed her the food that she loved - plopped it in her dish in the morning without another thought. She picked at it throughout the day and usually had it gone by evening and that was it. Got her little treats for being a good girl - could pick those up at the grocery store, whatever kind struck my fancy. Wow, that seems like centuries ago!!

I guess I should ask the question of anyone reading this if any of you have a dog who is both diabetic and has bladder stone problems, what do you feed your dog, not only food, but treats too. I'd be curious to know.


Thanks!
Carolyn

[peggy0]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

No, I haven't had them both at the same time but have had springers with stones. Have you tried adding some pumpkin or oatmeal? It's filling and lots of folks here use it as part of their diet

[CoolGram]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Hi Peggy,

The vet had told me I could give her pumpkin and not put her at risk for more stones, but that was before she was diagnosed with diabetes, so I didn't know if I could still give her that or not. She really loved it and I'd like to be able to give that to her again. Oatmeal sounds like it would be filling too and I'm sure she'd love that as well. Now, I know this is going to be a really dumb question, but can I assume that you mix the oatmeal with water to make it like you would for yourself to eat?

I'll run it by the vet and see what she says. Hopefully yes. I think even a little bit of something would make her more satisfied. I hate to see her so hungry all the time.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Carolyn

[Tikobird]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Can the oatmeal or pumpkin be given as a mid-day snack or is it best to include with morning & evening meal?

[peggy0]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Yes you should mix it with water and it should be included with the meal. Margaret gives Lucy a mid day snack to hold her over until dinner. It keeps her BG level. It depends on the dog and its curve.

[Patty]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Every dog responds a little differently to things like oatmeal and pumpkin. Some get a huge rise and others digest it more slowly. I would definitley want to know how the addition affects blood sugar levels.

I think if I had a choice I'd try the pumpkin first if you're just looking to use it as a "hunger filler."

[CoolGram]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Continuing the "food" discussion, I've noticed the last few days Gretel hasn't seemed as excited for me to put her food down. (To recap, she was switched a month ago from canned & dry w/d mixed to all dry.) This is totally not like her - usually she's dancing around my feet as I'm getting it ready.

Anyway, I mix the dry food with the Tricitrate solution mixed with about 1/2 cup of warm water, then add her fish oil capsule.

This morning she actually stayed in the living room while I was preparing her food and then came out when she heard me put it down for her. She took a bite, actually carried it away from the dish into the hallway, ate it, then came back for another bite and did the same thing. Normally she dives right in and gobbles it right down in the blink of an eye. She ate about half of it this way and then quit - didn't want any more.

Because she's been eating bugs at night to supplement her diet I thought maybe one had stung her inside her mouth. I looked but didn't see anything obvious. I also wondered if she's not liking the fish oil capsule - it does seem to cause her to gag a little bit sometimes. She didn't start with the fish oil until she was changed over to all dry food, so maybe she's just associating that capsule with the dry food and is trying to avoid it, one time she actually fished it out and laid it on the floor beside her dish.

So now I needed to figure out what to do about how much insulin to give. I was ready to give her 1/2 of her normal dose since she ate about 1/2 of her food, but I decided to try some of the canned w/d of which I had 2 cans left. I chopped it up and put it down and she ate it immediately. She ate enough that I could give her her normal insulin dosage, then followed it up with a treat as usual - which she also ate with gusto. It's a hard treat so if she had a sore mouth, I would have thought that would have been difficult for her to chew, but it wasn't.

So I'm left to think that she just plain doesn't like the dry w/d anymore, which is a dilemma, because she's not only diabetic, but has had bladder stones, so her diet must take not only both of those, but elevated triglycerides into account too.

I was certain that I had read somewhere on this forum that at least one person had a dog with both diabetes and bladder stone issues. I would so like to know what they are feeding their dog. I'm very interested in the Blue Buffalo after reading so many good things about it here, and even wrote to the company explaining Gretel's issues and asking if they made anything that would be good for her. Haven't received an answer yet, probably won't till next week.

Sorry this is so long, I just can't seem to write a short one, no matter how hard I try!! Hope to hear from someone soon.

Carolyn

[Tikobird]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Hey Caroline - sorry to hear of Gretals issues! I am one of the Blue Buffalo fans and have their phone number in case you want to give them a call to get the answers you need. Their hours are 9 to 5 pacific time & the number is (800) 919-2833.

Good luck - hope you get this straightened out quick!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

It could be the fish oil that's the problem. You could try giving her food without the fish oil for a few days and see if that makes a difference.

Or she may have only liked WD when some wet was mixed into it.

You can figure out which one it is by experimenting - go back to what she ate before and see if she readily eats it. If so, take out the wet food but don't add the fish oil. See if she likes that as well. If that's okay too, add the fish oil and see what happens.

I haven't gone back to look so was wondering why you eliminated the canned food.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Coolgram, you may be referring to my post. Buddy was put on Hypoallergenic dry about 4 years ago because of major paw and ear infections. He was dx's January of this year and he had many setbacks and complications including acute ketoacidosis and acute pancreatitis. He was then switched to MediCal Gastro (dry and wet) and all the time, the sores on his paws were getting bigger and nastier.

Then more complications about 1+month ago and we decided to go ahead and have an ultrasound of the glandular system. This revealed bladder stones and cholestasis (sludge in the gallbladder ducts), however it tested negative for the pancreas.

I had heard about this w/d diet which is supposed to help with the stones however, I decided to stop making the vet richer by buying his food and researched grain free food, which would not only satisfy him but free him of infections which severely impacted his bg's. He is now on Horizon Legacy for adult - grain free with a little MediCal weight control wet. He has been free of ear and paw infections for about 2+weeks now. The dosage for meds for the cholestasis was about 4 times what his little body could tolerate and made his severely sick and we had to suspend this for a while. He is now back on at a much reduced dosage and all is going well

As for the bladder stones, my understanding is that it is quite common in dogs and the vet who did the ultrasound suggested that sometimes they may pass them in their urine. Another vet suggested that I try and increase his water intake by adding it to his food. Since Buddy was not a big drinker during the day, a friend suggested that I serve him 1/3 of fresh cold water with 1 little teaspoon of tuna (albacore packed in water) 3 times per day. By increasing his water consumption, he now pees normally. In addition to that water and small pieces of tuna, he gets egg whites and small pieces of chicken as treats.

As a precaution, I also test his urine once a week with the Reagent strip to check for UTI and PH levels. 2 weeks ago, I was lucky to catch the beginning of an infection and a quick visit to the vet for antibiotics, it cleared within 2 days but I continued with the full course of antibiotics.

Hope this helps
Louise

[CoolGram]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Lori thanks for the phone number. If I don't get a response to my email by Monday I'll call them.

Natalie, the vet changed her to all dry w/d because of her high triglycerides, and also added the fish oil at the same time. I did place a call to the vet this morning but she's out until Tuesday. They did check with one of the other vets in the practice who is familiar with Gretel and she suggested adding water to the dry - which I already do, or mixing just a spoonful of the canned to it, which I'll try tonight. As I'm typing Gretel is out in the kitchen licking her empty bowl, so I know it wasn't because she wasn't hungry that she didn't want to eat this morning.

I also thought that maybe if I punctured the capsule and just put the fish oil right on her food she would eat it. That gel capsule does dissolve, but I think it still gets caught in her throat sometimes before it has a chance to dissolve. I don't fancy smelling that fishy smell , but if nothing else works I may give that a try.

Carolyn

[CoolGram]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Thanks Louise for replying. I have never heard of the Horizon Legacy food, don't know if we have that around here or not, but I'll check around. I too sometimes have to wonder if the vets just try to make us think that what they are selling is the best thing for our pets, when in reality there may be much better brands out there.

I figure if I research several other brands, then I can show her the information and have a dialog with her about what would be best for Gretel. I want whatever is the best for her, but I'd also like her to enjoy her food too.

As you know too, it's really hard to balance these different conditions our dogs have. The vet told me that Gretel is one of her more "complicated" patients. Lucky us!

I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for your input.
Carolyn

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

We always just punctured them and squirted the oil directly on Chris' food.