Hershey

[Phyllis Diot]

Hi. I am new to all of this. Hershey is a 8.5 year old vizsla who was diagnosed with diabetes on 2 Nov. Our vet started her on vetsulin, 17 units twice a day starting on 6 Nov. with a curve one week later. After her first curve he said we are almost there and increased to 18x2 with next curve in two weeks. On 20 Nov after curve said he seen something he didn't like and increased dosage to 20x2. With Holidays her next curve was not until 5 Jan which once again said he didn't like something and increased to 23x2 with next curve in 3 weeks. On 26 Jan he said her glucose did not go down during curve and didn't want to kill her so went back to 17x2 (another drastic change from 23x2). two weeks later another curve and back to 19x2 as of 8 Feb and next curve scheduled for Mar 1. Also said something about may have to give her a lot of insulin to regulate her. Never shows us the curve but when he dropped from 23 back to 17 indicated glucose was still around 400 in last check. All this makes me very nervous as I can not imagine all this jumping around can be good for her. Also concerned is ideal weight according to vet is 80-85. Before diagnosed she weighed 86. When diagnosed she was 76. Now 69 seems to be the new weight and looks thin and sickly to me. Any advise or ideas appreciated.

[Lolo]

Re: Hershey

I’m totally new to this (newer than you) so I don’t have any good advice, but is it possible for you to do curves or testing at home? I bought an alphatrak2 on amazon and do some testing on my dog at home. I don’t have any answers for my dog yet, but there’s at least a sense of control that I can test at home when I see something that concerns me and I’m hoping it may help figure out patterns if there are any. I think my dog tests lower in the vet’s office (and possibly after exercise) which I and the vet wouldn’t know if I wasn’t also testing at home. It’s very easy.... much easier than giving injections.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Hershey

Request a copy of all of her records from the veterinarian so you can see exactly what the curves looked like.

Vets vary widely in what they consider a large dose and high or low blood sugar. We can use those vet records to sort out whether the treatment seems to have been managed well - sometimes it isn't.

And then you would benefit greatly from learning to test her blood sugar at home.

23 units is not a huge dose in even a 69 pound dog. And that does sound too thin unless she's quite small.

Did you switch to the prescription diet?

That is quite low in calories and we found with our dog that originally we weren't feeding him enough of it to regain the weight he lost. You can calculate calories against what she used to eat or how much she used to eat to see if you are feeding her enough.

If she's getting enough food, then her blood sugar likely hasn't been adequately regulated - something we can determine from the curves the vet did.

The other thing that happens is at first their bodies are somewhat resistant to insulin and that goes away once they've had insulin for a while. So the dose can change in the first six months or so as that resistant goes away.

Lots of possibilities - please let us know what her curves were showing and we will help you sort things out.

Natalie

How is she at home?

Normal amount of water consumption and urination?

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

I've been learning a lot from reading a lot of info and posts on here and really appreciate it. She is a big dog so can see some visible ribs. She was on and still is on beneful healthy weight. Vet said to continue to keep her on current food. When we first took her in for testing she had suddenly started to need to get up in middle of night, drink a bowl of water, potty and more water. Once insulin was started at 17 units and even 18 that went away. But since going from 18 to 20 to 23 it came right back. Then when we went back down to 17 it continued and at current 19 is still going on and once was two trips at night I will request info from vet as soon as I can and post it. Also been reading about glucose testing and thought I would give that a try as well. Just been trying to figure out what glucose meter to get and what all I need to order to go with it. We were also researching after reading thru some of the forums that perhaps she would do better on the novolin.

Thank you

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

Thanks Lolo. Been thinking about the one touch ultra, just trying to figure out what all I need to order with it. Good luck. It seems scary, but hoping it gets better.

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

Was looking at the easy touch sold at amazon. Any thoughts.

[CraigM]

Re: Hershey

I think the Easy Touch is a newer meter (hadn’t heard of it before). From what I saw on Amazon, it looks like an OK choice. I’d get the kit because it comes with everything you would need to get started. The one additional thing you might want would be different lancets. The kit comes with 30 gauge (thin for humans) that some find too thin for thick dog skin. I generally used thicker 26, or 25 gauge lancets. Keep the 30 gauge lancets for testing yourself.

Keep in mind human meters generally read dog blood lower than true. This “error” isn’t really a bad thing and can be considered a safety margin. Many use human meters because the test strips are generally less expensive than the strips for doggy meters.

Craig

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

okay, new at this, is there a better one to try that comes in a kit.

[Lolo]

Re: Hershey

I bought this one. It’s actually the brand my vet uses.
Just be warned that the test strips are expensive! $50 for 50 strips. If there’s a way to get the strips for less I would love to know.
https://www.amazon.com/AlphaTRAK-Blo...ing+system+kit

I ordered the kit and promptly ran out of strips on my first curve because the vet wanted every half hour for first 6 hrs so you may want to order a pack of strips while you’re at it and more lancets. These are the strips...
https://www.amazon.com/AlphaTRAK-Blo...17G4G6DYM4TDMG

[CraigM]

Re: Hershey

okay, new at this, is there a better one to try that comes in a kit.

The AlphaTrak Lolo mentioned is excellent, but is expensive to use. As mentioned, the test strips are about $1 each. I tested my Annie 2-3 times a day, and the occasional “curve” that took 6 test strips. Maybe $100 per month?

The Easy Touch test strips seem to be $8.38 for 50! That’s 17 cents each!

I think I’d try the Easy Touch. If for any reason you don’t like it you really aren’t out very much money.

Craig

[martorso]

Re: Hershey

Hi there!
I have a YouTube channel about diabetes in dogs.....in Spanish. Anyway, one of the videos was about human meters vs pet meters, and I happened to find several studies to help me decide which meter I should get: those studies are in English though!!!! . I´ll leave you the links to the studies, so you have a better idea of accuracy in each case. For me I got the Advocate PetTest and the Contour Next EZ. They provide similar results, to be honest. Here are the links: http://sites.bu.edu/bionicpancreas/f...chnol-2016.pdf, http://www.dugganvet.ie/productsvet/...-AT2-Meter.pdf, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895580/
Hope you get one soon and star home testing

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

Thank you Martoso. It didn't make much sense to me and already ordered the easy touch and will have to figure out the rest when it arrives Thursday. At least until I do I will see a pattern which should help by itself. I hope.

[Phyllis Diot]

Re: Hershey

I understand the vets confusion. I am really concerned for my fur baby now more then ever. Here are the curve results:

13 Nov after being on vetsulin 17 units twice a day for 1 week
8:50 153
11:10 243
13:00 338
15:00 228

20 Nov after increased to 18 units for 2 weeks
9:00 313
11:30 281
14:00 270
16:00 206

5 Jan after increase to 20 units and due to Holidays was for 6 weeks
9:15 328
11:50 408
14:15 412
16:15 358

26 Jan after increase to 23 units for 3 weeks (this was where he got concerned he was going wrong direction.
9:00 445
11:00 462
13:00 483
16:00 391

9 Feb after last curve dropped back to 17 units for 2 weeks
9:00 509
11:00 570
13:00 588
15:00 490

Currently on 19 and next curve is 1 Mar.

HELP.

In all cases she ate and had her insulin between 0730 and 800

[Raysaint]

Re: Hershey

Curve looked best at 17 units. As numbers got worse as insulin increased, why did the vet keep increasing?

What is the dog's weight?

[jesse girl]

Re: Hershey

I agree with raysaint and would not have raised the dose after the curve with a 153 as a low and would have held at 17 units for maybe a month and see how things settle

We have seen it time and time again if a dog is getting to much insulin a dog can show higher numbers and resistance to insulin . Now you think by raising the dose will solve this but it can be the opposite with numbers going higher .maybe there is a point in time they go lower but you may not catch that period

If this is what is occurring it can be difficult finding your way back to a dose thats appropriate . You could go back to !7 units but its possible the body could be out of whack for sometime if the dose was to much and it could take awhile to settle at 17 units

if a situation enters a crisis situation at higher numbers and showing ketones you may have to apply a short or fast acting insulin to buy time