Luna - the diabetic puppy

[chrmyr]

So it's been a while since I've been on to give an update on Luna. For anyone new, Luna is a Great Dane and currently 4 1/2 months old. She was diagnosed with diabetes at around 12 weeks. We started insulin therapy right away. On a weekly basis, we do two days of 24 hours curves and adjust the units of insulin each week based on those numbers. This is probably going to be the pattern for the first year. We are feeding her Blue Wilderness Adult Large Breed food, chose this for the fiber content. It's not easy finding an appropriate food for a diabetic puppy. We can't just give the normal diabetic dog food as it's weight controlled which she definitely does not need. We have also introduced some grain-free treats, frozen green beans, dehydrated chicken, and raw or hard-boiled eggs to her diet. Just so she has some variety.

Anyway, we had a bet of a set back last couple weeks (nothing major). She started with a UTI, which as we all know is a typical thing for diabetic dogs. So we didn't adjust the insulin levels that week. That and her gaining 5 lbs since the last insulin change caused her numbers to go up. Also, we switched from humilin N to novolin N, obviously to try and cut some costs. But I'm concerned that may have played a part in things as well. Oh and she is teething too. So many things can be playing a part in the sugar spikes with her only being 4 months old. She is growing like crazy right now too. But then she is a Dane

We increased her units by 2 and are working again to get her numbers back to a healthy range. We are hoping that her body adjusted to the different insulin formula (again both are type NPH) and we can continue to use the cheaper brand.

It's been a long, interesting road the last few months. But we love our little Luna and are so very happy that we've been able to her on a healthy path.

I got a lot of good advice on this forum the first month or so. So that you to all!

[jesse girl]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

thats fantastic news and its nice to see the progress of the growth of luna and you in this adventure

we enjoy luna updates

[amydunn19]

I wouldn't attribute the problems to changing to novolin n - most dogs are not affected. It is probably puppyhood. Nothing like a challenge.

As far as grain free treats, make certain what you are using doesn't substitute something like potatoes (which can be worse on blood sugar than grain). I have a pet supply store and unfortunately that is the down side of the grain free trend. Some companies put in much worse ingredients and some are super fatty. People think they are choosing healthier when they actually aren't.

I know it is really hard to walk the line with so many things that go along with having a large breed puppy and adding diabetes to that is almost too much. One of my employees adopted a great dane puppy with HOD and he is quite a challenge. So much to think about!

[Auddog]

Hi there,
I can't remember if I ever posted anything on your other thread or not (I am a bit of a forum lurker), but I've been Luna reader since you joined and this was a great update
We all face set backs from time to time. In my opinion, that's just how some dogs are with diabetes. Then again, with puppy growing pains, teething, and a UTI (minor or not) it sounds like this is a challenging time for you guys.
Good luck bringing her back down into th happy Luna range!! You're doing great!!

Audrey & Bazzle

[chrmyr]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

It is but we are working through it. I just found an older thread on here (2012) that gave me some further piece of mind. Luna has what I see is being referred to as a mountain curve. My vet keeps telling me it's backwards from what it should be. I'm going to have her read through this. Sounds like many prefer to have this curve as it gives more piece of mind when the nadir is at feeding time. That way you don't have to be as concerned with the dog dropping to low.

Would like to hear some recent thoughts on this.

And I'll get an updated pic posted soon for you all!!

Thanks

[chrmyr]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

Yes, I check all the treats for ingredients, but thanks for the tip. From what I can see most of the Blue Wilderness treats are good. However, we did dehydrate some chicken breasts. And I use hard boiled or raw eggs daily. I believe I saw where tuna can be a good treat as well. I'd welcome any and all suggestions on how to bring in a variety of foods for her. Will be planting our garden soon. So I want to plant things that she can have.

[jesse girl]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

it does not matter what a curve looks like just so its in an adequate range

my thought on curves if the fasting starts at a lower number the numbers may rise into that mid point then drop back down into next fasting ( a mountain type curve ) if the numbers starts out higher the numbers may drop into that mid point of the day then start rising into next fasting a smiley type curve

my jesse fluctuates depending on that fasting of hers and that determines her curve for the day . for many its dependable with that consistent fasting number

basically this is how the body balances injected insulin a very different process from the natural one

with foods you can just experiment some dogs are more sensitive to changes than others. i would think smaller dogs would be more difficult than larger

with my jesse 1 can be somewhat flexible with her routine at times but overall her routine is pretty consistent and repeatable from food shots and exercise

[amydunn19]

The curve is somewhat within your control but different dogs just process insulin and food differently. I would prefer a mountain curve but it is just not always in the cards. If you have one, I certainly wouldn't try to change it. The overall range and numbers are more important than the shape. With a puppy, it may change.

[Auddog]

Bazzle had a mountain curve when he was on N insulin, and it was nice to know that I wouldn't have to worry about him having a hypo event while I was away to work. My boy is on 70/30 insulin now (which definitely isn't typical for diabetic pups) so now his curve is kind of... sideways s shaped. He starts out on the upper end of his range, then goes up for 2 hours, then comes down for 4, then he gets a mid day snack, goes up for 2, then is steady for 4, then it's dinner, up for 2, walk, down for 4... anyway, you get the idea. I think the point is that the range of numbers from highest to lowest is good. Bazz is struggling right now, but normally his numbers go from about 100 to 250.
So yeah, when the overall range is good, the shape doesn't really matter
Don't you just love the spring time and getting ready to plant things? I like to plant string beans, sugar snap peas, and tomatoes to share with Bazzle sparingly (with the exception of the string beans they have a fair amount of natural sugar in them, so he only gets them occasionally). My dad grows a fairly large garden full of all sorts of vegies and berries, so whenever we visit him, Dad and I have to watch Bazz like a hawk to make sure he doesn't eat our entire fall harvest! For year round treats, Bazz and I stick to the boiled chicken peices, and all natural pureed pumpkin.

[chrmyr]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

Appreciate all the input as always. Luna gained another 3-4 lbs this week. She is growing fast so her numbers are creeping up again but it seems her body has adjusted to the Novolan. I will report in to the vet tomorrow and I'm sure we will increase her dose another couple units.

Her eating is up and down as us normal with any 4 month old pup. Some days she eats great some not. I'm trying to mix it up a bit. Introduced tuna last week. About a TB mixed in with her dry food. She seems to love that. And I usually mix in a raw egg with her breakfast. I'm considering trying to Vital food. I checked the ingredients and the only thing I wasn't sure about was that it has cranberries.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

So happy to hear that Luna is doing well.

[chrmyr]

Luna Update - Diet Advice

Luna the puppy - she is doing generally well, however, is teething pretty bad right now and not eating so well. Not sure what to do. I tried soaking but she didn't like that. So I'm monitoring and adjusting insulin the best I can for now. I've started mixing one of or a combination of boiled chicken, raw or hard-boiled eggs, canned salmon in water, or canned tuna in water with her dry dog food. But the last couple days none of this has helped. I do thing it's just her teeth. However, in the event it's just simply her being bored with all those options - can anyone provide other suggestions?

Thanks again as the advice I get on this forum is always helpful!

Myriah

[Rover]

Re: Luna Update - Diet Advice

best of luck with this, sounds so tough Ask your vet about other food options, perhaps? Your dog is very lucky to have you.

[jesse girl]

Re: Luna - the diabetic puppy

i think anything thats soft

jesse gets raw grounded beef heart . less chewing and more gulping for her

are you positive its teething ? maybe something else bothering luna

[amydunn19]

I know from puppies that come in our shop that they seem to go through stages of not eating. I have found just about every type seems to go through it. The Stella and Chewys patties or meal mixers are a very appetizing option. Primal also has a line of freeze dried meals. For a bigger dog, they are pricey but more affordable to mix in.

Canine Caviar has a special needs food great for large breed puppies but it is not as appetizing as some brands. It has a sizable amount of carbs but is a good food for a special needs young dog. Another option is the cans of Canine Caviar 95% duck but these are not nutritionally complete - you have to supplement. Wellness has a similar canned food. Canine Caviar is hard to find in some areas. These cans of mostly meat are good for dogs that have food allergies but might help in your situation.