Sweet Sable is an angel... July 23, 2015

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Hi Eric,

I'm really sorry to hear that you have not been feeling well and hope the doc is working to change that.

Hope you got good news on the eye exam yesterday and that we will hear from you soon.

Natalie

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Eye checkup was very good. Try to write more later but nothing real bad to report, i'd like her numbers better but she has some days that are very good, others... eh... not as good.

Hope everyone has a great Sunday and thank you for checking on her, she is a very good dog I will say that (I got her a new toy yesterday, another "cat" toy- a mouse that squeeks, she loves any type of "mouse" toy).

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Well, I'm more worried about you lately than Sable...

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Well, I'm more worried about you lately than Sable...

Natalie

Ditto that. Eric I really hope it isn't anything serious. You haven't been feeling well for a while...we are thinking of you.

Patty

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Thanks, I should be ok- feeling better than I was just my mind gets pre-occupied so I haven't been posting as much. I do continue to read and check others though.

I do have a question since I'm on here-

Has anyone tried to add a Chromium supplement? If so did it help control the bg at all? Also, how much to give if so?

Just things I read and I constantly am looking for ways to help control my dog's bg numbers better.

Thanks for the thoughts, I do appreciate it but i'll be back to posting and bugging you all in no time.

[We Hope]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

According to this information, chromium had an effect on insulin with non-diabetic dogs, but did nothing when it came to dogs with diabetes:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...ernatives.html

Marvista Vet

CHROMIUM PICOLINATE

"This product is a mineral supplement that can be found in many vitamin stores. In normal dogs, it seems to potentiate the effects of insulin (ie the insulin becomes stronger). This effect has not been found in diabetic dogs, however."

http://web.archive.org/web/200102081...lAbs51-100.htm

AVCIM 2000 Abstracts

# 71
EFFECT OF ORAL CHROMIUM PICOLINATE ON GLYCEMIC CONTROL IN INSULIN-TREATED DIABETIC DOGS.
S. Schachter, R. Nelson, C. Kirk. UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, Davis, CA and Hill’s Science and Technology Center, Topeka, KS.

"Oral treatment with Cr picolinate did not improve control of glycemia in insulin-treated diabetic dogs."

It would seem that it may have to do with dogs having type 1 diabetes, just as you can't give them oral meds to do the job instead of insulin.

Kathy

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Hi everyone,

I have been on here, but have not been posting. I thought things were going better but.... got a call from the doctor today and have to go get some more tests done (I don't want to get into anything because hopefully it's nothing of course... but i'm scared i'll be honest- just my nature, even the small things make me scared sometimes and... well.... hopefully it's a small thing or nothing thing but it makes me scared when the doctor calls me).


On Sables side of things, everything has been very much the same- I have yet to try the NPH although I should do that soon. Usually her numbers are decent (other than in the evening before her 2nd shot of the day, that one almost always seems high). She is almost always lower (usually very good numbers) if we take a ride out of town for the day as her excitement level seems to rise which in turn takes her numbers down (I have to test her more often it seems to make sure she doesn't go low but i'm learning when I can give her a treat in those situations).

The vet wants numbers from me (which I guess is understandable and I'll have to get them some or they will make it hard on getting insulin). I'm just been having things on my mind and just getting over all the doctor stuff (until today again).

Anyway, welcome to all the new people, hi to everyone i've been missing. I just had to write some as I'm really down and worried and just writing sometimes helps. It's probably nothing, usually is, and i'll wonder why I worried i'm sure but... again, it's my nature.

Thanks as always for allowing me to write, and I'll let you know how Sable does on the NPH when I get to it-

If she is on 8 units on the Vetsulin should I start with 4 on the NPH? Stay on 4 for how long (I'll test frequently of course to see how she is doing)? Give me some pointers as maybe I'll start her on it tomorrow if you can help me out with all this on the switch to NPH.... thanks! (anything to worry about with a switch like this, anything to watch for? please help )

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Hi Eric,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been down and worried. It is hard to get through the day when you feel like that so much of the time. It is really nice to see you post here - that made me feel better!

I'd try something between 4 and 6 units of NPH. The Vetsulin manuals calls for a 25% reduction when switching the opposite direction and that's what I would normally do as well. Since they can often get by with no food and half the insulin dose, a 25% reduction is reasonable.

The shape of the curve may change substantially with a different insulin so you want to check her BG at various times so you get an idea of what the new curve looks like. Better hopefully!

Take care and come on over and write whatever and whenever you want. We have a mostly off topic discussion going on here and there's also the Everything Else forum.

Natalie

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

Hi Eric,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been down and worried. It is hard to get through the day when you feel like that so much of the time. It is really nice to see you post here - that made me feel better!

I'd try something between 4 and 6 units of NPH. The Vetsulin manuals calls for a 25% reduction when switching the opposite direction and that's what I would normally do as well. Since they can often get by with no food and half the insulin dose, a 25% reduction is reasonable.

The shape of the curve may change substantially with a different insulin so you want to check her BG at various times so you get an idea of what the new curve looks like. Better hopefully!

Take care and come on over and write whatever and whenever you want. We have a mostly off topic discussion going on here and there's also the Everything Else forum.

Natalie

Thanks Natalie, I don't want to worry but I will...

I think I might try the NPH starting tomorrow... how long should I stay with a 4 unit does for example, should I just do the normal thing, try 4 units for about a week (unless of course she starts going too low obviously) then slowly bump it up? Or would it depend on her numbers, for example if she stays 300 plus on 4 units for a day or 2 should I bump it up then?

Her numbers haven't been too bad like I said other than the one at night and occasionly other times too (mainly at night though, then she will stay high for a bit because of where she starts).

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I'd base it on how much action Sable gets from 4 units. If her blood sugar is high and staying that way, I'd bump it up within a day or two by 1-2 units and see what effect that has. When you start approaching good numbers, then is the time to move slowly and look at the trends over time each day to see about how long it's lasting, etc.

Usually the amount of units needed is similar unless the previous insulin wasn't working. Vetsulin is working for Sable so I anticipate that the dose on NPH won't be significantly different.

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I'd base it on how much action Sable gets from 4 units. If her blood sugar is high and staying that way, I'd bump it up within a day or two by 1-2 units and see what effect that has. When you start approaching good numbers, then is the time to move slowly and look at the trends over time each day to see about how long it's lasting, etc.

Usually the amount of units needed is similar unless the previous insulin wasn't working. Vetsulin is working for Sable so I anticipate that the dose on NPH won't be significantly different.

I gave Sable 4 units of the NPH this morning, will be testing today to see how her numbers are going.

I have also been splitting her dog food out (as she gets 2 cups a day I try to feed her 1/4 cup at a time thru the day, it seems a full cup at a time really pushes her numbers up fast). Today I gave her 3/4 of a cup this morning as she generally gets 1/2 a cup. Her bg numbers were at 120 this morning (again usually her numbers are decent in the morning) but with the new insulin I wanted to give the extra 1/4 of a cup just to be cautious- and then I'll check her in a little while and go from there.

Another question I have, once I use the NPH and get to where it is working good (hopefully it works great and I can use it all the time) is it possible to use it in the morning and then at night use the vetsulin (at the very least to use the vetsulin I have up) as it seems her numbers stay good thru the night with the vetsulin or is that something you wouldn't do... use NPH one shot and Vetsulin another shot.

Hopefully I can get the NPH to where it is suppose to be in the next week or two as after that she will have to be alone for a good part of the day probably. Hopefully she gets regulated on it rather quickly and all goes well for my next set of tests... i'm so stressed with all this... now a nap for an hour (or two) and then to test Sable again... thanks for the help as always.

[We Hope]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I would not mix the two insulins. They are different species, different profiles, and different strengths.

I do know some people who use beef or pork insulin for their basal and fast or rapid acting GE or analog insulin for their meal insulin. They've been doing it for years and this is what works for them. Also knew of someone who was doing something similar with a cat, who was on a long-acting analog and using beef insulin when corrective insulin was needed. Again, this worked for her, but these are examples of using one for their longer-acting insulin and another species for their shorter-acting insulin for meals or bg corrections.

Officially, no one has done any testing on the use of two different species of insulin used in the same patient so there are no studies we can look at to give us any further information on it.

To me, doing this defeats the purpose of your switching to NPH because you need to see how Sable does on that insulin day and night.

When you make an insulin switch, you stop using one and start using the other. I would keep what Vetsulin you have in case you need to go back to it.

Kathy

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I gave Sable 4 units of the NPH this morning, will be testing today to see how her numbers are going.

I have also been splitting her dog food out (as she gets 2 cups a day I try to feed her 1/4 cup at a time thru the day, it seems a full cup at a time really pushes her numbers up fast). Today I gave her 3/4 of a cup this morning as she generally gets 1/2 a cup. Her bg numbers were at 120 this morning (again usually her numbers are decent in the morning) but with the new insulin I wanted to give the extra 1/4 of a cup just to be cautious- and then I'll check her in a little while and go from there.

Another question I have, once I use the NPH and get to where it is working good (hopefully it works great and I can use it all the time) is it possible to use it in the morning and then at night use the vetsulin (at the very least to use the vetsulin I have up) as it seems her numbers stay good thru the night with the vetsulin or is that something you wouldn't do... use NPH one shot and Vetsulin another shot.

Hopefully I can get the NPH to where it is suppose to be in the next week or two as after that she will have to be alone for a good part of the day probably. Hopefully she gets regulated on it rather quickly and all goes well for my next set of tests... i'm so stressed with all this... now a nap for an hour (or two) and then to test Sable again... thanks for the help as always.

Hi Eric,

Glad to see you posting again I was worried about you.

Sorry to hear you are still having health problems, I do hope you get good news and nothing to worry about.

I see you are trying new insulin I also hope this works for Sable

I can't offer you any advice on the insulin, but the experts sure can

Lucy is seeing really well but we still have up and downs with her Bg's as she is still on a few drops. Things can only get better Eric.

Hugs to you and Sable

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I would not mix the two insulins. They are different species, different profiles, and different strengths.

I do know some people who use beef or pork insulin for their basal and fast or rapid acting GE or analog insulin for their meal insulin. They've been doing it for years and this is what works for them. Also knew of someone who was doing something similar with a cat, who was on a long-acting analog and using beef insulin when corrective insulin was needed. Again, this worked for her, but these are examples of using one for their longer-acting insulin and another species for their shorter-acting insulin for meals or bg corrections.

Officially, no one has done any testing on the use of two different species of insulin used in the same patient so there are no studies we can look at to give us any further information on it.

To me, doing this defeats the purpose of your switching to NPH because you need to see how Sable does on that insulin day and night.

When you make an insulin switch, you stop using one and start using the other. I would keep what Vetsulin you have in case you need to go back to it.

Kathy

Thank you for the reply, I wasn't sure so that's why I asked- hopefully the NPH will work better than the Vetsulin was and I won't have to worry about it as well, plus I'll have the Vetsulin as a back up in case I need for some reason (or maybe I can find someone who needs it- again, not trying to get ahead of myself as I'm no sure how the NPH will work yet even).


I'm so happy to get answers from the experts though, I still have no idea where I would be without you all. It does seem like she will need more than 4 units of the NPH but it's early yet so we'll see, she does not seem like she is going low enough (however we still have all day so we'll see).

[ravenecw]

Re: Sable's road to regulation!

I'd base it on how much action Sable gets from 4 units. If her blood sugar is high and staying that way, I'd bump it up within a day or two by 1-2 units and see what effect that has. When you start approaching good numbers, then is the time to move slowly and look at the trends over time each day to see about how long it's lasting, etc.

Usually the amount of units needed is similar unless the previous insulin wasn't working. Vetsulin is working for Sable so I anticipate that the dose on NPH won't be significantly different.

4 units is not going to be enough.... her numbers are high today when they are usually much much lower... (infact she was 400 when I checked). I will keep checking to see but will have to bump this up as i'm sure it's not enough already. Like you said we may approach a similar number (7 or 8) I believe, but time will tell.