Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

[k9diabetes]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

I'm not crazy about Caninsulin for large dogs because you have to inject such a large volume of liquid and the expense. So for big dogs NPH is a good choice.

That said, if you can afford it and if he's getting really great, basically perfect regulation on it, I wouldn't muck around with success if you don't have to.

If the regulation is less than lovely or if the cost of Caninsulin isn't sustainable long-term, then it certainly would be worth considering.

Among the things that makes NPH more affordable is that there are 2.5 times more units of insulin in a 10ml bottle of NPH than in the same size bottle of Caninsulin. So even if you pay the same amount per bottle, you get a lot more for the money.

I don't know if anyone is certain whether Vetsulin has an actual problem or whether it's the testing process that's the problem. And, likewise, no one seems to be able to say whether Caninsulin has the same problem as Vetsulin. What we do have is the FDA now monitoring pet foods and medications much more closely so an alert was issued here in the states and it was pulled from the market. It's been gone for a year and so far I don't hear even a rumbling about it's return. Instead, the Critical Need Program was shut down because recently a lot of the Vetsulin was found to be contaminated with bacteria... all very frustrating as there are some dogs who cannot use NPH.

Your NPH may be known as Isophane or Insulatard - it goes by different names in different parts of the world.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/NPH

Natalie

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..thanks for the info, there is so much around and vets/people giving advice i get a bit confused. I have decided not to change anything too drastically as Monty seems to be doing fine at the moment, have had all levels under 17 (306), lowest 2.4 (43.2) after run around at the beach, for the last week.

Monty is doing great, took him to opthalmologist for two month checkup and he is really happy. Monty is down to once a day Predforte eye drops. Montys eyes are really blood shot. The vet said this is nothing to worry about, and to give Predforte twice a day for a couple of days. Monty seems to be squinting a bit. We were away for five days and only noticed it when we got back. Would the other eye drops suggested be better for Monty, .e.i opticare, lacrilube etc. , or use in conjunction with, i asked the vet and he said no the Predforte (steroid) is the best). The vet does not want to see Monty for six months now which is great (all four of his postop checks we did not have to pay for which is great).

Monty is his old self at the beach running around and even found a stick in the water when I threw it in front of him, although he did accidentally bite my arm thinking it was a stick a couple of times..lol.

thanks again for all the input it is really helpful.

p.s. he has also put on 3kg (now 33kg) since operation, so have dropped his food by one cup per day, will see how we go (apart from when taking to beach, give him 1/2 a cup before we go).
Simone and Monty

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Well hello, i know its been a while, but I do check this site every now and then for info and it a great help.

Since last posted, monty got glaucoma and lost site in his eyes devastating after all we went through with the cataract removal). He now has what i think is hyphema in one of his eyes (eye pressure 44) and the vet said it needs to be removed. We are still thinking about this.

I work at a hospital and have spoken to the diabetes nurse about changing to Protaphane (NPH) and have a sample to try. The caninsulin costs about $64 every two weeks, this will be cheaper and I see alot of people on this site use it.

I am just wondering if i have given him 17 units of caninsulin tonight, will it still be in his system in am, should i start the new insulin with this in his system.

I also note that there seems to be alot more labs with diabetes since last I a checked, which is sad, but a great help as Monty is lab and it is good to see the different dosages, weights etc.

Monty and Simone

[Patty]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Simone,
I'm so sorry to hear about Monty's glaucoma. The higher pressures can be painful. There are a few dogs here that went through enucleation surgery. Ozzi's nondiabetic Koby is one and Pumpernickel was another if you want to do a search.

With the switch from Caninsulin to Protamine, I'd plan the switch when you can be home to observe how Monty does. When switching insulins, it's a good idea to back off the dose a bit. Here's a link where Natalie talks about the percentage: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1921 (post #13).

Do be sure to pick up some new syringes U100 instead of the U40 Caninsulin syringes. You can get the U100s with 1/2 unit markings as well which can be beneficial for fine tuning doses.

I'd say 15-20% of the current dose (which would be 14.5u-13.5u) or depending on his fasting bg and curve trend. Let us know how things go.

Patty

[CraigM]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Sorry to hear about Monty's glaucoma. Annie went through the same ordeal: cataracts about three years ago, and glaucoma surgery two weeks ago today. Her glaucoma seemed to come on in just a few days! No improvement in her vision, will get a pressure check next week.

Patty has mentioned the important things in switching to NPH. The big one is to remember to use U-100 syringes! I think most of us who switched from Vetsulin (same as Caninsulin) to NPH ended up at about the same dosage. Backing off a bit to start is very smart to see how Monty reacts.

Good luck, and let us know how things progress.

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..thanks for the replies, not sure i understand the difference between the syringes though, getting a bit nervous about it all really.
Have been searching and still cant find anywhere to say if it is safe to inject the insulin 12hrs after the caninsulin (will this still be in his syst em) and react badly??

With Monty's glaucoma i am a bit peeved. Monty lost his site for one day, his site came back, but i took him to the vet and they said, no its not glaucoma. I emailed the eye vet and he said no not glaucoma. Monty lost his site again, so I took him to the eye vet and he then said that yes he had had a bout of bad glaucoma and sight had gone for good.
Then a couple of weeks ago, i noticed his eye was bright red. I got the vet up to check and he said nothing to worry about just bleeding in the eye. I emailed the eye vet he said nothing to worry about. So I kept my appt with the eye vet for four weeks later, then found out the high pressures and that monty was in pain. Sometimes not know whether to trust these people.

Anyhoo, think i gonna try the new insulin tonight when we home. Will keep you posted.

thanks again for the help
Monty and Simone

[Patty]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Yes, you can start the Protaphane 12 hours after the Caninsulin. Backing off the dose slightly will give you a bit of a safety net if there's any overlap in insulin.

Protaphane insulin uses U100 syringes.
Caninsulin uses U40 syringes.

This is due to the difference in concentration of the insulins. The syringes are made so that the number of units is correct based on the type of insulin you are using. Be sure to use the correct syringes when dosing.

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Thanks Patty, started Monty on the new insulin (Protaphane) on Thurs night (diabetes nurse gave me a pen and some needles)

His blood sugars have been really high, i think this may be because he is in pain, not because of the new insulin, but am not sure, the last time his blood sugars did not move was when he had the glaucoma episode. We have decided to get his eye taken out (the other option was to put him to sleep), but after everything we have been through want to give it a go (the vet said he will be a new dog with his eye out). Its a hard decision tho, thinking about what can happen next??

The highest was about 23 (414), lowest being 15 (270).

Will keep you posted.
Simone and Monty

[eileen]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Thanks Patty, started Monty on the new insulin (Protaphane) on Thurs night (diabetes nurse gave me a pen and some needles)

His blood sugars have been really high, i think this may be because he is in pain, not because of the new insulin, but am not sure, the last time his blood sugars did not move was when he had the glaucoma episode. We have decided to get his eye taken out (the other option was to put him to sleep), but after everything we have been through want to give it a go (the vet said he will be a new dog with his eye out). Its a hard decision tho, thinking about what can happen next??

The highest was about 23 (414), lowest being 15 (270).

Will keep you posted.
Simone and Monty

Sending lots of positive vibes your way...

[Patty]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

When's Monty's surgery scheduled for?

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

..i have not booked him in yet, more decisions to make....the eye vet is away until next week (an hours drive away), i will contact them today to see the soonest they can do it. My local vet could do it but think i would rather the specialist do it considering monty's eye problems.

the other issue is whether to get a prosthetic but i am not sue which way to go. Do i actually have to take the prosthetic out and clean it???

Decisions, decisions.

[Patty]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

You might take a look through Kevin's thread on Kobi. While he's not diabetic, he wrestled with some of the same decisions. http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2122

[BestBuddy]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Hi,

We have just been through an eye removal with Janey our latest addition to the family. Janey is a 11yo Irish Water Spaniel/Lab X and had a tumor in her eye. I went through all the same thoughts as you and we decided not to have a prosthetic eye because it would only be for us not her and I believe it takes longer to heal as well as there can be more complications.

The specialist said he could take it out but recommended the local vet because he said it is a very routine op so we went with the local vet. It looked sore and swollen when she came home and wasn't real pretty for the next week and she hated the cone she had to wear. After the first week it looked great and I now don't even notice the missing eye. She is so much happier without the pain and I am so glad we did it.

I'll pop a couple of pics in the album so you can have a look.

Jenny

[simonejg]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

...thanks for the posts, the pic of jenny has made me maybe think about not getting the glass eyeball as she is black and so is monty and it does not look too bad.

I read right through Kobi's post, what a lucky dog to have such an awesome owner.

Monty is booked in for thurs to have eye removed, will discuss with specialist about the glass eye, still undecided. The eye looks like it has a red stripe through it (not the whites, they are just a bit red), think it hyphema after looking on internet. Will check the pressures again before op and make sure there is absolutely nothing else we can do, i.e. different drops etc. He has Hysite three times a day, cosopt twice a day, predforte three times a day. (i increased some of these myself just because of the eye in the hope it will get better), but no joy.

On the blood sugar side of things, we up his dose to 20 units protaphane am and pm, and the readings have been good, the lowest being 3.1 (55.8) and the highest about 17. He seems a lot happier too.

Will keep you posted.
thanks
simone

[Shellie]

Re: Monty 10 y/o Black Lab

Aw Simone...you've made a tough choice but I think the right one. It's so hard to see them in pain and this will be a tough surgery from what I understand but in the end, I think Monty will be much happier and certainly healthier! Keep us posted as to what is going on and know we're all pulling for you and Monty! Hugs!!!!