Noodle

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

Thanks, I'm really encouraged! I'm going to pop up there with Noodle later this week to check the place out in person, meet the staff, and ask some more questions. I never thought I would be this excited to meet a new vet, lol.

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

Forgot to add...

Noodle's numbers have been so good on the Blue Buffalo that I was able to increase him to 1 3/4 cups am/pm and still keep his postprandial under 200. So hopefully that will help him with his recent quest to gain a few pounds. At least he isn't dropping anymore, so we're moving in the right direction.

[Patty]

Re: Noodle

Great news Daisy!!

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

I think I need a calorie lesson...a doggy calorie lesson, to help Noodle increase his weight. This is probably a very silly question, but is the amount of calories it takes a person to gain or lose a pound (3500) the same for dogs?

Noodle's dry food has 444 calories per cup. The guidelines on the food bag say he should be eating about 3 cups per day. He was still losing weight (very slowly) on that amount. We've been able to increase that amount to 3 1/2 cups on most days - I scale it back to 3 cups on days when he is running higher than usual. His weight is bouncing back and fourth between 51 & 52 pounds. I would like him over 55...probably around 58lbs would be ideal.

We can't go higher on the dry since it increases his high numbers beyond what I'm comfortable with, since he still has clear vision and I'm hoping we can maintain that as long as possible. I have some of the BB canned and it says the calorie content is 342 calories in a can. That doesn't seem like much. The guidelines on the can say to feed a dog 1/2 a can, per 10 pounds of body weight, per day. So for a 60 pound dog that would be 3 cans? Do I have that correct? If so, now I understand why people with large dogs complain how much it costs to buy high quality canned for their larger dogs. I imagine the prescription foods would cost a bundle!

He had great numbers this afternoon, so I gave him about 3 ounces (about a quarter of the can) as a snack to see how his BG reacts. He loved it...he loves everything. One hour after eating, he only went up about 20 points - so far, so good. I'm going to test him again at the 2 and 3 hour marks. So if I'm aiming to get Noodle closer to the 60 pound mark, how many calories should I be adding to his diet with the canned - assuming he tolerates it well and it leaves his BG in good range? I have a feeling it's a lot more than I originally thought...better stock up.

[Taylor]

Re: Noodle

If you are feeding between 1332 and 1554 calories per day now but want to increase his weight, you could try 1 and 1/2 cups dry and 1/2 can twice a day for a total of 1674 calories. Then you could drop back to 1560 calories per day once he reaches his ideal weight by going with 1/3 can instead of 1/2 can. The three cans per day doesn't seem right as that would only be 1026 calories, unless I'm mixed up. I'm trying to keep my lab at 82 lbs and I am feeding him 1510 calories per day but at this point he is not very active.
Pat

[ozzi]

Re: Noodle

Hi Daisy,

The formula I use to determine canine daily caloric intake is as follows:
a one kg (2.2 pound dog) dog needs 140 calories/day
For each additional kg, you add 50 calories
For sedentary/indoor dogs, subtract 10% of that number

So Noodle weighs 52 pounds = 23.64 kg
This means that Noodle would normally need 1272 calories/day
Assuming a sedentary lifestyle, the daily caloric intake should be 1145 calories

Since you're already feeding between 1332 and 1554 cal/day, I'm surprised he's losing weight! You might want to check with the new vet about his ideal body weight and daily caloric requirements (and by the way, congrats on the new vet!!!). Regarding the number of calories required to gain one pound, I don't know how that works...hopefully someone else here will know, or again, your new vet.

Ozzi weights 66.4 pounds and I feed him 1428 calories/day which is THREE cans BB Wilderness/day (476 cal/can) and yes, it IS expensive...LOL! But he's doing really well on it, so I don't care! His "girlfriend" eats 2 cans/day, so I go through 5 cans/day at my house!

I would be curious to know what formulas others are using to determine daily caloric intake for their dogs.

Take care,
Kevin

[k9diabetes]

Re: Noodle

I think calorie needs vary a lot from dog to dog. I used to increase or decrease Chris' diet quantities or calories by about 20-25% to achieve a weight change.

Chris ate about 900 calories a day and was not very active.

Natalie

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

I used a formula I found here to try for a ballpark calorie figure. Kevin, I understand what you're talking about with regards to how many calories it would take to maintain Noodle's weight at 52lbs. But since I want to increase it, wouldn't I determine the calories based on his goal weight instead?

I used 60lbs as a goal for the calculations in finding his RER (resting energy requirement) per the website I found. Noodle is very energetic. Our house has 3 levels and he follows us around up and down the stairs all day. He also takes daily walks around the subdivision and runs into friends along the way that he chases around. I decided his activity level is probably in between what they list as "adult normal" and "light work" and split the difference, lol. That gave me a calorie count of 1598.

I know I'm making this much more complicated then it needs to be. I think I just needed to see a general target range to know we were getting in the ballpark. He hasn't been losing weight anymore, but he doesn't appear to be gaining like I thought either. But we are only weighing him once a week, so we will see where he lands Wednesday.

If we add 1 can of the BB to his dry each day (half a can with his dry each meal, like Pat mentioned), that should be right in the 20-25% increase that Natalie mentioned using when Chris needed to increase or decrease. One can of the BB is 342 calories and 20-25% of the calories he is currently getting from the BB dry to maintain his weight would be 310-388.

I just found an easier website with a calculator based on pounds. At the moderate activity level, that would place him around 1575 calories to maintain 60 pounds. Interestingly, if I enter 52 pounds it shows a calorie figure of 1415, which is higher than he was getting before we were able to increase his dry food after switching to BB. No wonder he kept dropping.

Kevin - 150 cans a month?! Your pet food store must love you! I walked out of the store with 2 cans since I just wanted to try it and see how his BG reacted. The sales person looked at Noodle and then looked at me like "only 2 cans...I don't think so". It didn't help that I had just asked her not to give him the treats they hand out to the dogs who come into the store (I had brought some of his own). It was like she had images in her head of Noodle as the orphan in Oliver..."Please sir, may I have some more?", lol.

I was going to wait until Noodle was ready for his annual (June) for his first appt with the new vet I found, but I think I will see if I can take him there next week. We might as well get established before he needs shots and refills on everything.

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

Quick question - is it common for canned food to induce diarrhea? I gave him some more of the canned BB this morning with his dry, which he was very happy about and inhaled. But his stomach was gurgling afterward and this evening...well, it wasn't pretty. Thankfully outside, but holy moley.

He seems to feel fine, went for a walk, played with some friends - a perfectly normal day. I just went to put the can in the recycling bin a little while ago and he followed the can through the house thinking he was getting more, lol.

Should I pull back on the amount and introduce it more slowly or could he be reacting to the ingredients themselves? The canned BB is fish based and I don't think any of the food he has had in the past had fish - or at least not as the main ingredient.

Naturally, we just bought a case today before we knew the end result.

[Patty]

Re: Noodle

Daisy,
I would pull back and introduce it slower.
Patty

[peggy0]

Re: Noodle

Hi Daisy

I think this is the longevity BB. I introduced it a tablespoon at a time as my dogs never had fish either. After a week, they were fine with eating it

[CarolW]

Re: Noodle

I agree with Patty - just introduce the canned food more slowly. Commonly, people say, mix about a quarter of the new food with 3/4 of the old, when you start out, or even less than a quarter. They say, take from four to seven days to introduce a new food, increasing the proportions of new to old, day by day.

Dogs have very sensitive GI tracts, as you found out! It could be only that that gave Noodle the problem.

Sounds like great food - good luck with it!

Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:33:34 (PDT)

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

Thanks everyone - I will back up and reintroduce it a bit at a time. I think I'm going to give his system a break tonight and start with a tablespoon at breakfast. I'm always so careful and patient with the switch to a different dry, so I'm not sure why I rushed along the canned. Thank goodness Noodle doesn't hold a grudge.

Off to poke, feed, and inject. Have a good night!

[ozzi]

Re: Noodle

Daisy,

You crack me up! I love reading your posts! Sorry I couldn't get on yesterday, we had more flooding issues here, and I always lose phone and internet when that happens! I was dying laughing when you wrote about the pet store clerk saying "two cans?....I don't think so!" It's true, I use 5 cans/day = 140 cans/month. The cost is crazy, so I stock up when the food is on sale, and I use every coupon. This past weekend, I got 3 coupons: $15 off if you spend $50 or more, $10 off if you spend $40 or more, and $5 off if you spend $25 or more. I went in three times during the same visit to spend the amount required to take advantage of all three coupons! By the third time, the clerk looked at me funny! But I don't care, BB is very expensive, and it's working well for my dogs.

I also rushed the change, and had the exact same results, if you know what I mean. So I re-introduced it at a ratio of 25% BB to 75% old food, and then increased the BB slowly. They both went from diarrhea to soft stools, and now are regular and eating only BB. I don't mean to be gross, but wanted to let you know how it went for me, and hopefully you will see the same thing with Noodle.

When I posted the calorie count, I was just giving an example of what his needs would be to maintain his weight, so you are right, you would need to increase the number of calories to increase his weight. I just didn't know by how much one would increase it. I saw Natalie's post, and that looked like it was helpful to gauge an increase. He sounds like an active little bugger..LOL!!
Kevin

[Noodle]

Re: Noodle

I'm pleased to write that not only have we not had any more, shall we say, "incidents" (lol), but he also gained 1 1/2 pounds. Happy Dance!

Kevin, where do you buy the BB that has the $'s off a certain amount of purchase coupons? Is it Petsmart? I would absolutely do what you did with the multiple trips through the check out...or make my husband & daughter go with me and hit 3 lanes at the same time!

As you mentioned, Noodle really is an active bugger, lol. He does this crazy thing almost nightly where he runs through the house like someone is chasing him. When he hits the kitchen floor, he loses his footing and slides into the cabinets or falls over. Doesn't matter how many times he does it...same pattern, same result...never learns or must enjoy it! Then he ends in the living room and does this hysterical wiggling on his back until he turns himself 360 degrees. By then we are all laughing our heads off and the show is complete - he loves an audience.

I hope your home hasn't sustained any flood damage and that you are finally drying off up there!

Have a wonderful Easter Weekend everyone!!