Daisy's Story

[jesse girl]

Re: Daisy's Story

if insulin is not fed with sugar the body is going to respond to it on its terms

you think low glycemic is the way to go but it maybe the opposite approach that is needed

i have actually given jesse some honey which reduced a normal spike

i agree with amy on high protein and low glycemic as a problem for some dogs but my theory is injected insulin is not being fed causing the body to dump sugar thats why jesses carby milk bone works well for her to curb that response from the body

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

I did an experiment last night and today and gave her a milk bone around 12:30p and went and got a lower fat, lower protein dog food. Just checked her and she's at 523 with an hour and a half to go. I'll break in 1/8 cup of the dog food tonight.
RC Glyco
Crude Protein (min) 35.0%
Crude Fat (min) 10.0%
Crude Fat (max) 14.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 10.0%
Moisture (max) 10.0%
Carbs 42

What I bought today:
Hills Adult
Protein 26%
Fat 11%
Carbs 44

Better or no? One of RCG first ingredients is corn gluten meal. I took her off that a couple days ago because 2 hours after she ate she would lay on her side and have irregular breathing. She did that when she was first diagnosed.

[jesse girl]

Re: Daisy's Story

daisy appears to be having some issues that is affecting blood sugar

appetite problems and reaction to different foods . it seems something is going on with her digestive system .

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

it seems something is going on with her digestive system .

Is she not absorbing the food properly?

This all happened after she was done taking her antibiotics for UTI. In fact, the very next day.

Does she need probiotics? Enzymes? I'm at a loss. The vet said it was her dog food so I have been trying different combinations over the last 3 weeks. I leave her on it for 5 days and it's been no better.

Is she having Somagyi?

Please help.

[CraigM]

Re: Daisy's Story

Is she not absorbing the food properly?

This all happened after she was done taking her antibiotics for UTI. In fact, the very next day.

Does she need probiotics? Enzymes? I'm at a loss. The vet said it was her dog food so I have been trying different combinations over the last 3 weeks. I leave her on it for 5 days and it's been no better.

Is she having Somagyi?

Please help.

Don't know if Daisy needs a probiotic, but I'm giving Annie one most mornings.

There are many probiotics sold on Amazon, I've tried three and really can't tell any difference. FortiFlora is probably the most expensive, but Annie seems to like the flavor and will lick her bowl clean when I stir it into her food.
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Fortif...dog+probiotics

The reason I started the probiotics is that Annie was passing TERRIBLE gas! She would lie down in the living room and make such a stink we would gag Her poop was also very loose, almost diarrhea. That all cleared within a day or two after starting probiotics. My wife was so impressed that she put ME on a daily probiotic!

Craig

[jesse girl]

Re: Daisy's Story

daisy has struggled to get consistency . her regulation was good until the infection and digestive issues

diabetes changes our pups internally my jesse went from free feeding and never eating a whole meal at one sitting to inhaling food like a vacuum cleaner

it does make sense because the pancreas ( an important part of digestion ) is compromised .

could it be one thing or multiple things we just dont know . did they do a complete blood panel ? maybe the vet missed something . to me it just seems like something else is going on

just a thought

[amydunn19]

Re: Daisy's Story

I can't tell you what is better or worse but I can tell you how I approached Maggie and this was quite a process. Maggie refused the prescription brands plus Taste of the Wild, Fromm, Orijen Senior, anything Hill's, eukanuba, Merrick (except canned) and I really could go on and on. I got her to eat the Blue Weight Management but her gas was awful and her digestion was still not good - runny poo and bouts of pancreatitis. My approach was to look at the carb source and find a food that didn't have rice. The next food I tried had white potatoes (I can't recall the brand) and she ate it but got terribly sick. So, we backed off and went to boiled chicken until she settled. I tried Nutrisca and it was the first food she would eat enthusiastically and she didn't have the terrible side effects. It was really too high in fat eventually but the carb source was chickpeas. After a couple of years, the allergy vet wanted her on Royal Canin Rabbit and Potato. Once again, she got really sick and her blood sugar was so low that she had to eat about five times a day. The food just would not Balance with the insulin so we went back to Nutrisca. Eventually, we ended up on Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Duck/Legume which was really the lowest fat dry besides prescription and she tolerated it well. So, for her, it was an ingredient issue coupled with history of pancreatitis. So, if you think it is her food, look at the protein or carb source and maybe try a low fat food that doesn't have that particular source and see if she tolerates it and it matches ok with insulin. If not, try a different food with different sources. The main carb sources are potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, peas, and chickpeas in low fat food. I may have left something out but you have to treat it like a food trial where you eliminate foods like that.

Your Daisy's problem may not be with ingredients but I felt Maggie just couldn't tolerate certain things. The foods you look at don't have to read Weight Management but you can always look at the panel for the percentages of fat and protein. But, the ingredient list is important in eliminating possible issues.

Could the reaction you saw be related to the antibiotic? Maggie had one she took that made her very ill. It is odd that she was eating the same things and suddenly had the reaction but anything is possible.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

My wife was so impressed that she put ME on a daily probiotic!

Now that's funny, Craig!!

could it be one thing or multiple things we just dont know . did they do a complete blood panel ? maybe the vet missed something . to me it just seems like something else is going on

She hasn't had a complete blood panel in about 8 months. Her triglycerides were high and she had a UTI.

I'm afraid something else is going on too. The vet gave me about 6 different scenarios- from insulin, to resistance, to pancreatic cancer and a whole bunch in between. I guess if I can't figure this out we'll have to go another route.

Could the reaction you saw be related to the antibiotic? Maggie had one she took that made her very ill. It is odd that she was eating the same things and suddenly had the reaction but anything is possible.

It does seem really odd that the day after she was off the antibiotics (Clavamox) this happened. I know Augmenten can really upset your stomach, I can't take it because it makes me throw up, so I'm wondering if that had something to do with it. Maybe it's a coincidence.

The good news is she's not panting on the Hill's. I gave her about 1/8 c mixed with her Stewbie and so far so good.

I'm still giving her 1/4u R to get the sugar down. I feel like it's a bandaid but at least I'm buying her some time during the day where it's not in the 5-600's for too long.

I just pray it's her food and the right combination is right around the corner.

[amydunn19]

Re: Daisy's Story

If you have to use R on a regular basis, I wouldn't look at it as a bandaid but just another part of the routine. Dogs generally do change as time goes by and sometimes you just adjust and go on. Maggie went through so many changes through her years. It used to bother me but then I realized it made sense so you just roll with it.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

Well the good news is she stayed under 300 until almost 5 this morning, but jumped up to 557 by 6. 1/4 R again but I guess you're right, things change and we have to roll with it. Just praying she evens out some more.

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Daisy's Story

Today's Curve

615a 385
830a 359
1030a 274
1230p 176
230p 231
400p 425
600p 622

Help. I'll try giving her a snack about 1p tomorrow, but the problem is that I work during the week.

Why is she all of a sudden doing this?

What kind of carb snack would I give?

Looking back at her August 26 curve, to me, it doesn't look like rebound as much as her running out of insulin in the afternoon.

With a low of 176, you may have room for a small increase in Novolin N. Maybe .5 units. If the increase produces larger swings, then that might point to Somogyi Rebound.

Might be worth a try. Just make sure she doesn't go too low after 6 hours, which appears to be her nadir.

Don't want to change too many things at once, but...In regard to a possible diet tweak... I'm no expert here, but theoretically, if a meal is high in complex carbohydrates (starch and fibre) glucose is released over a longer period in a more controlled way. So maybe a diet change in this regard might prolong the duration of insulin.

Dr. Joi Sutton mentions it here... https://www.adwdiabetes.com/articles...pet-ask-dr-joi

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Daisy's Story

i know with Riles i coulnd make even one change without his body going out of wack. i think you.ll find sticking to one food the stewbie without any additives will help Daisy girls tummy. 3 food changes eating worms. bubble gum. lizards oh my stomach. your doing good

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

i know with Riles i coulnd make even one change without his body going out of wack. i think you.ll find sticking to one food the stewbie without any additives will help Daisy girls tummy. 3 food changes eating worms. bubble gum. lizards oh my stomach. your doing good

I'm really trying. She was actually easier to regulate when she first got diagnosed, but I guess this disease can change around a lot.

With a low of 176, you may have room for a small increase in Novolin N. Maybe .5 units. If the increase produces larger swings, then that might point to Somogyi Rebound.

Thanks Mike, I'll let her settle in with her new dog food then increase over the weekend.

I'm no expert here, but theoretically, if a meal is high in complex carbohydrates (starch and fibre) glucose is released over a longer period in a more controlled way. So maybe a diet change in this regard might prolong the duration of insulin.

Amy I got some Natural Balance with some potatoes in it. The fiber content isn't that great but she's still getting 1/2 c stewbie that has green beans, broccoli, carrots and spinach. Hopefully that will help.

I appreciate all your help, it gives me some hope that maybe it is a dietary issue, which is what the vet said in the first place. She insisted on RCG and it made Daisy so sick so I thought she was crazy. I'm just not well versed on all this, even after 7 months.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

For the past couple of days I've added 1/4 cup of Natural Balance to her food. It has helped keep her blood sugar from rising until about 5:00, then it starts going up. I checked her at 4:45 and she was at 253, then at 6:10 she was 449 so we are making progress. At least we're staying below 500. The extra carbs seem to be helping, but I'm still giving her 1/4u R to drop her numbers when they're high like this. I'm hoping we can even out and she can last until 6:30. She used to overlap a little but not anymore.

I'll do a curve Saturday.

So what do you think?

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Daisy's Story

That sounds encouraging! Hope Saturday's curve shows progress.