advice-please

[nfjchester]

Does anyone one here have a dog with congestive heart failure and diabetes? chester has both and am really scared and sad.

[Patty]

Re: diabetes and chf

Hi and Welcome to you and Chester!

I'm not sure that we have a member currently with Congestive Heart Failure and diabetes, but we have had a few with other heart issues and diabetes as well.

Can you tell us more about Chester? What type of dog is he? How old? How long has he had CHF? diabetes?

As I said we do have dogs will other multiple diseases that have led very full and happy lives. Glad you found us.

Take care,
Patty

[nfjchester]

Re: diabetes and chf

chester ia a 12 year old miniture pinsher . his heart murmur is a 4 - found out he has a murmur in december of 09 . diabetes - found out 2 weeks ago . he is still going through a curve and i guess they want to inject 2 x daily . sounds like they upped his dose to 3 units today - he weighs 13 pounds - he started at 16.8 pounds . this weight loss stuff really SCARES me - to me he looks ill from losing that much weight . i will find out more when i get him at 5 today .

[nfjchester]

Re: eye drops

thanks for all the replies so far - i really appreciate hearing them all . i would like to also hear more about this billberry stuff if you have any info .

[k9diabetes]

Re: diabetes and chf

Chris had numerous heart problems - a murmur, an enlarged left ventricle, a leaky valve, and an arhythmia! His heart problem never progressed to actual congestive heart failure...

Usually if heart failure is present, there is fluid accumulating in the lungs. Has Chester been x-rayed or otherwise checked to determine that his heart is in failure?

Is he on any medication for it?

They often will give a diuretic.

Vetmedin (pimobenden) is an absolutely wonderful drug for dogs with heart problems. It was approved in the U.S. about the time Chris' heart was starting to have serious problems. I was told that they just "feel better" on it and that was certainly true for Chris. I credit it with giving him a much longer and fuller life than he would have had otherwise.

We worked closely with a cardiologist and if you have access to one, they are very helpful.

A lot depends on how severe these kinds of problems are and how well they respond to the medication.

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: eye drops

Heidi,
I went back and looked and actually these links were ones you'd sent me.

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.67.10.1783?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ajvr

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&Category=4141&PID=26 167&O=Generic

I hate how the avma one was done. Feeding a poor diet to cause cataracts, euthanizing the dog to study the lens. Ugh.
Patty

[Chloe's Mom]

Re: eye drops

Heidi,
I went back and looked and actually these links were ones you'd sent me.

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.67.10.1783?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ajvr

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&Category=4141&PID=26 167&O=Generic

I hate how the avma one was done. Feeding a poor diet to cause cataracts, euthanizing the dog to study the lens. Ugh.
Patty

Hi Patty,

I know, it is animal abuse in my opinion. Thanks so much Patty for posting these links. My brain is pretty scattered right now and I really appreciate having you to help. You are soooo organized and a blessing to us all

Hugs,
Heidi and Chloe

[Joan]

Re: eye drops

My first thought reading through this thread is that I do not personally have knowledge of drops helping cataracts... However as usual I will go where angels fear to tread.....

No vet, albeit ophthamologist, iternist, neuroloist has all the answers. I do have personal knowledge of this fact. I think on this forum, as on others, what we use for guidance, is what has worked for others, combine that with our own vets knowledge and experience, and enhance the whole thing with as much research on any subject as we can possibly do.

I do personally know a vet who recommends the ocluvet drops that buddingartist has been using, and he reports that 80% of dogs see some improvement. Since Louise's dog has shown imporvement, that is confirmation to me that it will work in at least some dogs.

There are good vets out there, and some not so much. There are experienced vets that go by what they have personally experienced, and what they learned in school. Some younger vets are less experienced for sure, but are more willing to try alternative therapies. None of their options should be dismissed out of hand because our own personal vet has not tried the procedures.

With our first spinal rescue, after $5,000 in diagnostic tests with noted research neurologists, we were told that Solomon would never walk. They were right. They said he would not live more than a few months, they were wrong....he will have his 5th anniversary with us in Oct.

Our second spinal rescue, after being examined by the best neurologists available, we were told he would also never walk. He didn't for nearly 2 yrs, then he began walking and now 4 yrs later he can run!!

On our handicapped pugs, we have been given endless advice on feeding Hills foods. Similar adivce I was given on our diabetic pug. Wonder if that advice would have been the same, if they did not sell it and you could pick it up at Walmart? One member of my handicapped pet forum was told not to give a pinch of tuna in the water as I had advised because of the sodium content. Course she was advised to stay on the the Hills C/D with nearly 50 times as much sodium.

My point is this, none of us are vets that I am aware of, none of our vets are perfect or know everything, and we should give some leeway to people who have actually used a product or a procedure, not discount it because some "expert" advised us to. I also think that ones finances do enter into the care of our precious pets. In a perfect world this would not be the case, but last time I checked we were not living in Utopia. JMO

[Chloe's Mom]

Re: eye drops

Oh my Joan, this is so very well said! If we always blindly took the advice of a Vet or anyone else as the absolute, my Chloe for one would not be with me today. The Vet I had when Chloe was first diagnosed kept increasing her insulin based on nothing more than her Fructosamine tests. Each time the test was repeated, it was worse; why, because she was rebounding from too much insulin. They did not believe in home testing or doing curves. Thank the Lord Carla stepped in and saved Chloe from that Vet. She advised me to get a new Vet right away and I did. In no time, all was well.

I think this forum is a wonderful source of knowledge. Like you said, no one is perfect and no one knows everything (except God). It is so wonderful to be able to have a place to hear others opinions on things; people who have "been there" with their fur babies.

Again, a great post you made.

Hugs,
Heidi and Chloe

[Joan]

Re: eye drops

Thanks Heidi, BTW Carla saved my Bella too, so we have lots in common.
Hugs Joan

[k9diabetes]

Re: eye drops

Note that the new drops under discussion claim only to make some improvement in "early" cataracts. That's a key piece of information. There reaches a point where the structure of the lens has been destroyed and no drop is going to reassemble the structure of the lens after it's dismantled.

Which is not the same as saying the cataracts won't disappear. Once they become hyper mature, the lens can dissolve entirely. This occurred in Kathy's dog, Lucky.

There is more than opinion behind the concerns about Ocluvet and about any drop that promises to get rid of cataracts. There is, for starters, a lack of scientific evidence that they work (hence the objections from ophthalmologists) and a lack of scientific rationale for how they would even be able to work when the cataract reaches the point of physically damaging the lens. The new product mentioned does not promise to make any improvement at that point.

So my opinion is based not only on what "experts" say but also on an understanding of the cataract process and how such a drop might or might not function depending on how advanced the cataract is. I could wholeheartedly endorse a product that successfully interrupts the process of sugars damaging the lens - the promise of the new product mentioned here. I can't endorse a product that claims to clear up cataracts in a lens that is structurally destroyed.

So I have no problem with trying Ocluvet with early cataracts since it apparently does no damage. Once they are advanced, though, I continue to believe that financial resources are better directed elsewhere, including to drops to contain the inflammation from advanced cataracts because uncontrolled inflammation could lead to losing the eye altogether.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: diabetes and chf

I was aware, on another forum, of a dog with both diabetes and congestive heart failure - lasted years.

So I think it can be managed.

Wed, 4 Aug 2010 21:09:42 (PDT)

[Chloe's Mom]

Re: eye drops

Thanks Heidi, BTW Carla saved my Bella too, so we have lots in common.
Hugs Joan

Hi Joan,

Oh my, I did not know this. I have to tell you, it seemed like she just came out of nowhere and helped us. I was a member of a canine nutrition list at the time and was getting absolutely no help at all and was so worried. Carla sent me an e-mail out of the blue and helped me through all the confusion that we all go through at the beginning. I know I worried that poor woman to death with my endless questions, LOL. It's hard to believe that was almost 4 years ago. She is just an Angel.

Hugs to you!
Heidi

[nfjchester]

chester

i have posted 3 threads already and got some great replies , but my posts really havent said much about us so -

chester is my 12 year old min pin - and like your pets - he is my world . me and chester were in a car accident in jan of 02 . i ended up in a wheelchair and chester was lost for a day and a half - he was found 4 1/2 miles from the accident site - in good shape but hungry and thirsty -

chesters health was great up until december of 09 - the vet said chester had chf - through the months we got him on meds - vetmedin , spironolactone , furosamide , enalapril . then early july of this year he kept losing weight and drinking alot .he was 16.8 pounds and now down to 13.4 i had him tested for cushings - came back negative so the vet want to check his electrolites and i told her i wanted every blood test possible on chester . when the results came back she said i am glad you wanted a full lab because chester has diabetes . his bg was 583 . she got him in for a curve the next day - his levels have not come down much - sunday he was rushed to the vet because he puked saturday night and twice sunday morning - his levels were up past 500 again - she gave him a cerenia shot for puking and some other shot that is an antibiotic that lasts for 14 days . she never said if it was pancreatitus - does anybody think maybe his kidneys or liver are going ? i had him tested for this today - waiting for results .

i am not doing well with the shots and feeding part - i am still so lost with trying to learn all of this . and mostly i am scared and depressed . chester is my life , my reason for living . i will NEVER put myself through watching an animal get old or sick ever again . i cannot mentally handle this . i am maxed on depression pills and have taking valium for anxiousness . cant do this . dont know why animals have to get illnesses - why cant they just get old with no complications ? i cant stand seeing him lose weight , not eat like he used to , and i miss walking him 2 - 3 miles a day with my power chair and im sure he misses it too .chester is on humarin ( spelled wrong ?) 3 units 2 x daily . not regulated .

when i have more to add about chester i will keep it to this thread so i dont keep posting new ones .

[peggy0]

Re: chester

Welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry you are going through this with Chester. Let's think about the positives. He tested negatively for cushings, so that's great. Dogs typically do not die from diabetes!! He could have been sick because his levels were high. Most dogs don't feel well at all when their BG levels are high. He is on the right dosage for his weight. What does he eat and how much? It takes a while to get a dog regulated so we have be patient. Exercise is good for diabetic pets. You have to see how it affects his blood glucose levels as it drops them typically, but he certainly can go for walks with you. Let's hope that we get him regulated and you are back to normal with Chester!! Let us know what food you are giving him ok?