Daisy Vee

[Mike Vee]

Hi All,
I just joined after reading posts for several weeks. I will leave out previous medical adventures and skip forward to explain our most recent excitement. Our 4 year old Golden Ret-mix Daisy had a grade two mass cell tumor removed a little over a year ago. Even though the vet got good margins around the tumor, we went the extra mile with radiation therapy and *another* extra mile after that with 10 weeks of Prednisone "just to make sure we got it" in the words of the oncologist. The oncologist forgot to mention the possible side effect of Prednisone was that it might leave the dog with type 1 daibetes. After we figured that out, our vet put our 100 lb Golden retriever on Vetsulin. I am very close with my nephew who has been a type 1 daibetic since early grade school, so we were not discouraged at all by this new challenge. We've got many meters and count carbs, etc. We had a lot of trouble with the Vetsulin, and finally got things under control after switching to Novalin-N bought at Wallmart. I personally felt my vet took too long to give in and support this idea. 5 weeks ago, I figured out my dog Daisy was having big time vision problems, and took her to the vet. The vet said "oh yea, many dogs that turn diabetic will go blind from cataracts within a couple years. He showed me the cataracts in Daisy's eyes. He told me we should just let it mature and if we wanted to, then we could look into removal of the cataract lens in each eye. This opinion differed from many that my wife found on the net suggesting that infections and inflamation can result when you let cataracts "over ripen" in a diabetic dog. Not wanting to take a chance with our baby Daisy, we had her examined at a University Vet School, and they said we should do the surgery now to avoid complications often associated with over-mature cataracts. The lens replacement surgery was done 3 days ago, and we are in the midst adjusting insulin to counter the effects of steriods that we *must* use for at least a few weeks. Some probably forever in low dosages. I can feel the love on this list. Real pet owners "get it" when it comes to returning the unconditional love they get from their dogs. I gave my vet an insulin curve graph of 72 hrs in 2-4 hr intervals and he thought I was a total whack-job. Dogs are family. I laugh when I think how much more my dog's medical care has cost than any car I've ever owned. I don't regret that one bit. Cars don't love me! My wife and I love our dogs & cats. Well, lots of love here. Just checking in. Hope I can help in some small way. Mikey

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

I need to make a correction. That came out wrong. If we were to choose to have lens replacement surgery, it could yeild more complications if we were to wait for the cataract to completely mature before doing so.
Many dogs with cataracts are perfectly fine and have long, healthy, happy lives. "Wally" next door to me would fit into that category. - MV

[k9diabetes]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi!

Welcome to you, your wife, and, of course, Daisy!

I'm glad you weren't too ovewhelmed with the diabetes diagnosis. I'd had a diabetic cat before our dog Chris developed diabetes so I wasn't freaked out like I was the first time... had a major needle phobia to confront the first time around.

So how's Daisy doing on NPH?

I'm thrilled to hear you're home testing and please feel free to post your curve here. I'd love to see it. 72 hours... that really is dedication!!

And, of course, pictures please.

They have to be online somewhere. If you don't have a place to store them online, you can email them to me and I'll upload them to the site (k9diabetes@gmail.com).

I hear the first few days after cataract surgery are pretty grueling with the drop regimen. We never did the surgery so Chris has had mature cataracts for going on four years. He does have to have daily eyedrops (an NSAID, Voltaren) to keep the inflammation that the cataracts can cause at bay. I figure we didn't save any money by not having the surgery as the drops and ongoing opth. visits cost plenty, but he just wasn't a very good surgery candidate.

Very happy to see you here and to learn that Daisy has such a caring, dedicated, and knowledgeable family. That always does my heart good.

Best wishes,

Natalie and Chris

[BestBuddy]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi and welcome Daisy and family,
Yes it is a really good bunch of people here all at different stages with their diabetes journey. My Buddy also has mature cataracts and like Nat's Chris has had them for many years. We also have daily ointment and drops to keep him form getting ulcers and at age 15 I couldn't put him through the surgery. I do wish I had known enough about the cataract surgery years ago but too late now. Wow a 72 hour curve, that is great.
Jenny & Buddy

[Denise]

Re: Daisy Vee

Welcome to a fellow whacko!!! I love meeting people online that feel as I do. For the longest time I thought I was the only one out there!


Health issues just make us more whacko in a lot of people's eyes but I don't care to ever KNOW those people.

My dog was dx'ed at age 5. He is turning 12 in 2 days. Diabetes didn't bother me much so I adopted another diabetic dog, it's no more work than one, maybe more money but that's OK. My car is paid off and I might just have to drive it till it dies. Since the house will be paid for next year maybe that means I can get more! LOL

I have 12 cats and 7 dogs and love other animal people! Welcome! I wish you the best with Daisy, sounds like you are doing all you can and then some!

[bgdavis]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Mike and Daisy,

Welcome to our world of $10,000 dogs! My girl, Crissy Ann, is 12 1/2 and has been diabetic for over 4 years. She also has hypothyroidism and Cushings' disease. She went blind from cataracts, had the surgery, developed glaucoma, and eventually lost both of her eyes. But, we just keep doing what it takes to keep on.

Everybody on this site understands what you mean about love and dogs.

Bonnie and Crissy

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Thanks everone. Crazy people love company. My Daisy has hypothyroidisn too! I went to work on transferring my excel sheet data that I give the vet to a HTML page. That was a little more work than I thought.
I'm no web designer, so I put *everything* vertically on a somewhat tall page.
http://www.enzoco.com/mike/dog/

It seems everyone here has a handle on this stuff, so I have to ask: Does exercise really knock you pet's glucose numbe down?
I was so excited when I figured that out for our dog. I wish my vet would have mentioned that little detail months ago. Maybe it's not as big of a factor with other dogs, so he didn't know. My Type-1 nephew told me to try it. There are many factors involved, I'm sure, but I can knock a 270 reading down to 180 in 20 minutes with a hard walk. Well, that was before the PredForte steroid that we have her on post surgery. Now it's not making a lot of difference. Maybe 30 points tops. Still upping her insulin slowly though so that could change.
Mike

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Oh! on the Vetsulin vs NPH;
my particular 95 lb dog could not get stable with Vetsulin for more than a week. There was no "trend" other than unexpected spikes into the 400's twice a week or so. After we 'thought' we had things under control, I reduced testing intervals to once-a-day. Well, months later when the vet did a fructosomine test to get a longer term picture, he was very concerned about the high values. That was when I had noticed her sudden vision problems too. I did a glucose curve and confirmed we were averaging in the low 400's. I had to try something new. I insisted we switch at that point.
The NPH seems to give her more consistent readings. We still get swings, but we're only a month into it, and fight steriod effects now. One bonus of the switch was that it's 1/3 cheaper insulin, and the consumption was cut in half (approx) on top that. The switch to u100 NPH is good for us so far. I can see where u40 Vetsulin would be great for a lighter dog when it comes to tweaking dosages. Every animal is unique in terms of activity level, carb intake, metabolism, etc.
Mike

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Bonnie, Crissy looks like a happy camper. I see a lot of Cushings when reading about diabetes. I need to read more about it. Maybe there are breeds that are predisposed <?> You know what I hate that. I get so tired of people telling me that Goldens are sweet but they always die of cancer. (Thanks for that!) Our Golden / Yellow Lab *mix* is the sickie, while our purebred golden rescue dog can probably eat cans and poop nails. She is tuff <nock on wood>. Mike

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Agreed, regarding not wanting to meet the people that don't get it. My mother-in-law voluteers 3 days a week at big rescue shelter near us, and she sees the people first hand, who would think us whackos. They are dumping their pets at the first episode that presents them with an incovenience. I love the "Dogs Don't Dump People" bumper stickers. Okay! I have to step away and stop posting for a little while! Cheers, Mike

[k9diabetes]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Mike,

Yeah, Chris' blood sugar can plunge from exercise and even from high anxiety like a long vet visit. He could easily drop 50-100 points back when he could move fast enough to burn some energy.

Thought I'd put a copy of Daisy and the gang here directly...



Buford looks a lot like our Gus.

I was laughing about Daisy being "lazy." One of our members here, Paul, has a doberman named Zip... he doesn't like to move either!

Your curve looks GREAT!

Really nice control with the NPH.

I have sometimes given Chris' BG a boost before a walk with some syrup so he gets some glucose into his system immediately while he's walking and I know it won't last a long time so won't drive the blood sugar up hours later like food would.

I wonder if the Vetsulin was actually causing some rebound and that was the reason for the large spikes.

NPH is definitely the cheaper alternative and a lot easier with a big dog - with Vetsulin you have to give such a large volume if the dose is very high.

Not sure if you're getting it at Wal-mart. I don't typically shop at Wal-mart but with the expense of all of Chris' meds I have switched several of his most expensive medications there and the insulin is half the cost of the regular pharmacies because Novo has an arrangement with Wal-mart so all of Chris' insulin comes from there.

Mike, you really are a testament to what an actively involved owner can mean for a diabetic dog. Daisy's lucky to have you.

Natalie

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Thanks Natalie,
I never thought of the suguar spike before the walk. That sounds like a useful tool if she's already low and it's walk time. Maybe I'll try that when we get control again and the situation is right.
MIke

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Daisy Vee! and welcome!

Here's lookin at ya! love your picture!

nothing really too add - I'll keep an eye on your post in case I can add anything. You are in a good place here -- great information, love and licks!

Debbie and Apollo

[rhodesian46]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Mike,
Just a suggestion.You might want to try to keep the fasting curve then maybe test an hour later to see how the food effects Daiseys bgs then every 2 hours thereafter. So you would have a total of 7 times. And keep the times consistent This way you can have the exact times to compare to..You are doing a great job with her I have a siberian husky named Pebbles with cushings,diabetes,and hypothyroid Reading what you posted you are a great furdad and really love your animals. I too have alot 6 dogs,2 cats and a cockatiel Welcome to this board!!

[Mike Vee]

Re: Daisy Vee

Hi Marianne,
I'm not that clear on how to do a fasting curve and use the data, but I will likely do it, with help, after we get through this steroid tug-o-war in a few weeks. Two weeks before her eye surgery, they gave me PredForte eye drops to apply once-per-day. At that point, I noted a need for more insulin. with just one drop in each eye per day, it went from 23 to 25 units at each meal. Now, after the surgery, she is receiving 4 times that amount of the PredForte eye drops along with several other new (to her) medicines. Glucose was at 450 when I got her home from the clinic (3 hr drive) Friday night. It was in the low-mid 400s all day the next day while I incrementally went up on the Novalin volume. She was requiring 23-24 units before any of the medicines were introduced, which kept her in the zone of 80-200 bg pretty well. Now, she is receiving 37 units of Novalin at meal time, and her glucose is in the upper 200's. Pushing any more Novalin scares me at the moment. I believe this insulin load would kill her, if not for her meds counteracting much of it, so I'm not going to push things any more. Her readings for today were sorta high, but very steady, between 260 and 280 all day and into the evening (16 hrs). She's never had a curve that flat. I'm going to keep her at the 37 units and monitor her very closely for now. As soon as her bg levels went below 300, she was her playful self again All of this makes me wonder about the dogs whose owners don't test bg, and stick to the original insulin levels, regardless of the Prednisone (or any steroid) hit. - Mike