Frankie with many other issues

[frankie]

Name : Frankie

Breed : Dachshund
Diagnosed : in October by urine and blood test

Weight : 21 lbs.

age: 12 1/2 yrs.
Diet : Hill's W/d
Snacks: green beans, califlower, and baby carrots. Sometimes get some beef (cooked, no seasoning).

Insulin : vetsulin twice a day 14 units now.

Meter : I have the alphatrak and do curve about every 10 days.

His diabetes is not in full control yet, but almost there I believe.
Sometimes his glucose level peaks higher than 500 right before the injection.

[k9diabetes]

Re: New member Frankie doxie

Hi!

Welcome to you and Frankie.

I copied your post here as others will see it more often.

We'd love to see Frankie's last curve.

Are you going to try to stay with Vetsulin or switch to NPH?

Natalie

[ladysmom06]

Re: New member Frankie doxie

Hi and welcome to you and Frankie. Checking to see how Frankie is doing - hoping all is well.

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

Name : Frankie

Breed : Dachshund
Diagnosed : in October by urine and blood test

Weight : 21 lbs.

age: 12 1/2 yrs.
Diet : Hill's W/d
Snacks: green beans, califlower, and baby carrots. Sometimes get some beef (cooked, no seasoning).

Insulin : vetsulin twice a day 14 units now.

Meter : I have the alphatrak and do curve about every 10 days.

His diabetes is not in full control yet, but almost there I believe.
Sometimes his glucose level peaks higher than 500 right before the injection.

Welcome to you and Frankie, I will be following your thread.

Just wanted to say hello.

[frankie]

Frankie with many other issues

• Breed: Dachshund
• Age: 12 yrs and 8 months
• Weight: 20 lbs
• Date diagnosed with diabetes: Oct, 2009
• Type of insulin and how often given: Vetsulin 16 units U40 2x's day with meals
• Diet: W/D Science Diet
• Method of monitoring: AlphaTrak glucose monitor (checks pretty often and do the curve about once a week)
• Other medical issues: Cushing's disease, hypothyroidism, and heart murmur

Hi,

My dog, Frankie has diagnosed about 4 months ago. We started with 4 units of Vetsulin but he's on 16 units right now. He's been on 16 units for last 3 weeks and the glucose level sets from high 200s to low 100s.

He's on Anipryl for Cushing's, Soloxine for Hypothyroid, and Enalapril for the heart murmur.

I've joined here two months ago.

- Frankie's mom

[k9diabetes]

Re: Frankie with many other issues

Hi!

Patty alerted me that your post was in the Stories forum. Which is fine - we love having Frankie's story!

But people most often look here to meet new members so I've copied your thread here where everyone will see it. And I want to welcome you.

Your post raises a question...

Have you and the vet stockpiled supplies of Vetsulin? Are you switching to NPH?

Supplies are already drying up and Frankie's on a larger dose for a little guy so will go through a bottle fairly quickly.

Natalie

[frankie]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Hi,

I have 12 yr old (almost 13) dachshund.
We've switched to Humilin N last Wednesday starting from 3 units. I've been talking to my vet everyday, checking glucose level almost evey 2 hrs.

My dog (Frankie) is about 19 lbs and has cushing's and hypothyrodism. He had hear failure last month and his heart is ok with medications now.
He was on Vetsulin (16 units twice a day and it was working ok for a couple of months) but it dropped his glucose level to 55 all of sudden.
Since i normally check his glucose level every 6 hrs, I know the Vetsulin has stability issues.

Coming back to Humilin N, when it was 3 units, it was peaking at 7 hrs even though all the glucose level was in 400s.
My dog is on 7 units twice a day now, but it peaks about 3 hrs with 400s (glucose level) and the gluco meter shows "High" all the time.
According to the historical data here he should be able to be controlled by 6 units, but it is really out of control and I am very worried.

Would anyone tell me this Humilin L really works?
Does anyone use more than this given info for the body weight?


- Frankie's mom

[Patty]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Hi Frankie's mom,
Good to see you back. I alerted Natalie that your post was here so she may move it to the forum http://k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2 where more people will see it and respond.

The historical data are just guidelines to give a general idea of what some dogs have required for insulin amounts. However, every dog is different. Some require quite a bit more to bring glucose under control. If Frankie was on 16 units of Vetsulin, he may wind up needing somewhere around the same amount of NPH.

I'm sorry the vet had you start at such a low dose. That was information that many vets were offered in written literature but a 25% reduction should be all that is warranted, which would have been about 12 units. So you have plenty of room yet to increase.

You asked about Humulin L. I'm guessing you were reading about the different profiles. The Eli Lilly company discontinued this insulin so it's no longer available. I think the NPH may very well work for Frankie but he's not yet getting enough insulin to sufficiently lower his blood sugar.

With his blood sugar so high, do you have Ketodiastix you can use to monitor his urine for ketones?

Patty

[CraigM]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

If you look at the chart, you'll notice there are inconsistencies - heavier dogs requiring less insulin than light dogs. I find the chart "interesting", but wouldn't base my use on it.

Just for your info, Annie weighs about 16 - 17 pounds and is doing well on 8iu of NPH; twice per day. She had been using about 7½IU of Vetsulin before the switch. Of course each dog is different (food, exercise, medications, etc.).

Craig & Annie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Frankie with many other issues

Hi Frankie's Mom,

I brought together your two threads about Frankie into one here. It's a little disjointed but this way we can see all of Frankie's history and information here at the forum.

You are also user "frankie" at the Cushing's forum, aren't you?

If so and you would like, I can put a link here to your posts at the Cushing's forum - they are fairly extensive there.

Natalie

[frankie]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Thank you, Patty, Craig & Jane.

I was talking about Humilin N. (my bad...)
I sincerely hope more units of NPH works.

I do not have ketodiastix yet, but will get it soon.

Before I switched to Humilin N, Frankie had several crisis by heart failure and too low BG all of sudden. Ever since then, I had to start with 5 units of Vetsulin (it was early Feb.) and ending up with 10.5 units since it didn't work well. Frankie was on 16 units before the crisis even though it worked ok (not great).

I am worried about his BG so high for a long time (it's been almost a month), but my vet says we can't raise it too rapidly.
I'll talk to my vet tomorrow morning, but I guess I should be more patient, right?

Sorry about posting in the wrong place. It would be great if Natalie can move these thread to discussion board.

[Patty]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

I'll talk to my vet tomorrow morning, but I guess I should be more patient, right?

How long does your vet have you go on a dose before making an increase?
When was Frankie's last ACTH stim test done?

Patty

[frankie]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Hmm...
Normally my vet told me to stay on same unit for a week and do a curve, but I talk you my vet everyday ever since we switched to NPH on last Wednesday.

Frankie had 3 units NPH on Wednesday morning, 4.5 units in the evening (Wed), 5 units on Thursday morning and evening, 6 units on Friday, 7 units on Saturday and Sunday morning, and 7.5 units Sunday evening and this morning. I just talked to my vet and he told me to raise to 8.5 units this evening. I asked about ketodiastix but he said it is not necessary as long as Frankie is eating and drinking ok.

ACTH test was done in November 12, 2009. Frankie had ACTH test, DEX test, and Ultrasound.

[eileen]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Since it normally takes 6 doses or 3 full days for the effects of an insulin dose to be seen increasing too fast without giving the dose time to settle in it is easy to by pass the correct dose.

Not taking into accout Frankie's Cushings because I don't know how that is affecting his glucose levels but by seeing HI all of the time now it may be that there is some rebounding going on. With the very quick and doubled insulin increase in a very short 4 days it may be possible that you have gone over his required dose. It is usually suggested that whenever you see an increase in bgs while you are increasing the insulin dose it is rebound and the dose needs to be decreased instead of the continual increase.
If per chance it is rebound the only way to stop the cycle is to decrease the dose.

Testing for ketones with Ketostix is an important part of monitoring their diabetes. Ketones can form quickly so catching it early if it was to happen would lead you to quicker medical attention to rid him of the ketones.

Eileen/Mildred

[frankie]

Re: Historical Data - How Much Insulin Needed?

Ok, Eileen. I'll do ketodiastix for sure.

You are right about there is a possibility of somogy effect, but it shows numbers rather than "High" from last evening with 7.5 units.
It was 408 at the injection, and 453 at 2.5 hrs. I think it is raised due to food.
I'll check more and post it later. Thank you~.