Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum
 

Go Back   Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum > Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog

Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #241  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:11 PM
BogiesMom's Avatar
BogiesMom BogiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California
Posts: 518
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judi View Post
ok but where did he used to be? higher? then that means the insulin is working; he just may need more. If levemir is 4 times stronger than NPH then he has not hit the 1 unit for 1 pound test yet for true insulin resistance.

1/4 of 25 pounds would be 6 units. Hang in there Dawn, I don't have much knowledge but I have lots of sympathy. And you know the cushings drill. His cortisol could be high right now due to the diabetes and his other issues. If he doesn't have cushings symptoms, no need to test or treat.

hugs, Judi

ps. the WD usually helps them with regulation so I don't know if I'd switch if he is eating it
Hi Judi,
In the beginning he was very occasionally in the low 400's but mainly upper to mid 300's. So yes he has come down a little.
If he does meet insulin resistance which would be close to 6 units of levemir (he currently weighs about 23, 22 pounds) wouldn't that be a symptom of cushings I know there needs to be more symptoms present and diabetic dogs show very similar symptoms. I really wish my vet would stop bring this up to me because it really pushes me over the edge sometimes I read some good information that Dr Peterson wrote and it did help explain when to treat I would really like to find additional information like that to read... It's google time again I wish they had a book (Canine Diabetes For Dummies) I would certainly buy it
Bogie is due for blood work in January so I am going to have them do a fasting test so we can test for excess lipids... I don't think they have ever checked that because he has never been fasted for blood work.
I'll hold off on the diet change and see if we can get his levels down if not then I’ll look into it. He has stayed very level on the W/D and levemir and I am thankful for that... It just break my heart to see him so thin
I wasn't able to get a hold of the cushings mod so I will try her later and if all else fails I will send her a message through the cushings forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubytuesday View Post
Hey There, I am not sure at what ratio insulin resistance is determined, but I would guess you have a ways to go.

I think it is possible that he just needs more insulin. The amount each dog gets is so dog dependent. For instance, my 17# dog gets less then 1/2 of what Craig's dog gets and I think Annie is only 2# more then Ruby.

So my approach would be to curve for informational purposes and increase. Now I am not sure on all the times with all the variables in the numbers below, but the nice thing is they are all pretty close together.

Keep your chin up.

Tara
Thanks Tara, I'll do the curve tomorrow and see where we stand... I really hope we have better numbers.
__________________
Bogie is a 8 year old 24 pound Miniture Schnauzer, Dx on 08/24/12. Home cooked diet formulated by Just Food For Dogs, Switching from Levemir to Vetsulin.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:16 PM
BogiesMom's Avatar
BogiesMom BogiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California
Posts: 518
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyMunchie View Post
Hope your mind is set at ease after you have the conversation today. I agree with Judi. I think getting diabetes regulated would be #1 on the priority list right now. IMO with no Cushings symptoms I wouldn't be pursuing testing at this point (been there done that).

The Cushings Guru, Dr. Edward Feldman, would and does say no symptoms, don't treat. I know you're worried about Bogie and his health and I can certainly empathize. We want the best for our babies and it sounds like you're doing a very good job to me.

Louise

PS: If you think Bogie has a bit of a pot, go look at pictures of actual dogs who have Cushings and you'll see the difference.
Thank you Louise,

I wasn't able to get a hold of Glynda so I will try her later and if all else fails I will send her a message through the cushings forum.

I'll google Dr Feldman and see what I can come up with... I really want to learn all I can so I can be ontop of this if it does come about.

I hope Munchie is doing better today.

Dawn
__________________
Bogie is a 8 year old 24 pound Miniture Schnauzer, Dx on 08/24/12. Home cooked diet formulated by Just Food For Dogs, Switching from Levemir to Vetsulin.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:20 PM
Judi's Avatar
Judi Judi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 4,215
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

I understand. My Jenny did have cushings and at 8 pounds, she got up to 7 units of NPH before we could budge her out of the 400-600's so I totally get it. I'm just repeating to you what some of the experienced folks said to me to keep me from climbing the walls.

He has made some improvement. So it is working. I think the full curve will definitely tell the tale. It is so frustrating. (I've never earned a patience hat LOL)

Any vet will tell you that the 2 types of tests for cushings are only about 80% accurate. All they do is measure cortisol levels in a dog's body. So if a dog's body is stressed from diabetes, or other issues, their cortisol will be up. Unfortunately we have seen a lot of dogs incorrectly diagnosed with Cushings when they didn't really have it.

Jenny had crummy skin and fur, a serious pot belly, looked for cool places to lie down, and ate like a horse.

Her first vet doesn't treat cushings and I was in denial after googling. When she was losing weight from the diabetes, yet her pot belly still stuck out, her vet tech and I discussed the possibility of cushings. Vet #2 said just from reading her history he was 99% sure she had it before he examined her. She was easy to diagnose. Others, not so much.

the cushings tests are not cheap so I would hold off till you get the diabetes under control. Since you are able to test at home you will be able to monitor and reduce insulin if that is needed.

Judi
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:51 PM
Abby's Mom's Avatar
Abby's Mom Abby's Mom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,322
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Dawn,

I am going to chime in here with my experience, and if it were not for Glynda on the K9Cushings forum, I am sure that Abby would have been an Addison dog, because they would have treated her for Cushings when she did not have it. I had the tests done, she was positive in her ACTH test. She had an ultrasound done as well. Her vet at the time said she had Cushings and she was not diabetic. Stop insulin, and take Trilostane.

Cushings is something that you treat for symptons. If Bogie doesn't have any symptoms, for example increase of water consumption (after he gets into normal range with diabetes), and bad skin, loss of hair around the tummy, all the things that Judi mentioned below, in addition to being insulin resistant, then I would move forward with testing.

Now, Abby seems to be a hard dog to regulate... I get good days, and then I get some high numbers here and there, but we have approached our normalcy.

Schnauzers have been noted to need ALOT of insulin, and they also seem to have high triglycerides. I would not be worrying about cushings as this point, and not sure if I would be moving forward with the tests either. For us, it was a waste of hard earned money.

Barb
__________________
Barb & Abby 12/24/1999-12/31/2013 ~ dx 5/10/2011 ~ Forever in my heart ~
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:05 PM
BoJanie BoJanie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 135
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Dawn,

Our numbers have been odd the last couple of days and wonder if the time change can affect the numbers? Bo's sugar was over 500 this am and on the new bottle! I did give him a unit of fast acting novolog and it came down. By 5:00pm this evening, his bg was 160. The other thing you might consider is the food and the amount. When I was feeding Bo 1 1/4 dry food twice a day, his bgs were much higher than they are now (except for this am). I went to 1 cup twice a day and the numbers came down. I do give treats when his bg is under 150 and and I know the insulin has not peaked, a few bites of canned food Royal Canin PV, or mini carrots or tiny training treats. What I have cut out is boiled chicken. How much do you give? I found when I gave it as a treat for testing, it raised his bg quite a bit, much more than the items mentioned above. Also, if I give him bites of canned W/D, it goes up. Just a thought to consider the food.
Our food is 75% W/d dry and 25% Royal Canin PV dry, and daily fishoil capsule. I refused to go W/d dry only as he was on it for pancreatitis a couple of years ago and his coat was dry. I went to a specialist who prescribed the Royal Canin PV. Bo's coat was shiny and he felt great until the diabetes diagnosis. The vet said to switch to W/D. This is a compromise and seems to be good for the most part. Oddly, the boiled chicken breast, even a few bites, raised his bg.

Last edited by BoJanie; 11-05-2012 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 11-05-2012, 05:15 PM
BogiesMom's Avatar
BogiesMom BogiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California
Posts: 518
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

I just checked Bogies numbers and he is at 406... He's never been that high in the evening before. I wish I knew what was going on here I really hope he is lower in the morning.
__________________
Bogie is a 8 year old 24 pound Miniture Schnauzer, Dx on 08/24/12. Home cooked diet formulated by Just Food For Dogs, Switching from Levemir to Vetsulin.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 11-06-2012, 08:47 AM
BogiesMom's Avatar
BogiesMom BogiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California
Posts: 518
Default Curve Day and Slight Food Change

Decided to do a curve today...

Last night I decided to try BoJanie recomindation to decrease the wet food. So my choice was to lower his can food 4.4oz to 4.1oz and his chicken from 3.5oz to 3.3oz I left the dry at 2.5oz. I can always increase the dry later and slowly raise the chicken to see if it spikes his BG or if it stays the same.

Before I fed him last night 6pm his BG was 406 @ 10pm it was down to 301. This morning his fasting was down to 238. I fed him at 5:40am and @ his 7:40am BG check he went up to 343.
Were going to go out for a short walk here in a few min and then recheck just before 10am.

I'll post all of the numbers later and see where we stand... and well see if the food makes a differance.

Dawn
__________________
Bogie is a 8 year old 24 pound Miniture Schnauzer, Dx on 08/24/12. Home cooked diet formulated by Just Food For Dogs, Switching from Levemir to Vetsulin.

Last edited by BogiesMom; 11-06-2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Addition
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 11-06-2012, 09:44 AM
peggy0's Avatar
peggy0 peggy0 is offline
Senior Member and Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,715
Default Re: Curve Day

Interesting. Protein always raised forbins BGs. I had to watch what meat I gave him
__________________
Forbin, miss you every day. See you at the bridge Buddy.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 11-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Abby's Mom's Avatar
Abby's Mom Abby's Mom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,322
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

This is where the phrase of every dog is different.

I give Abby small pieces of chicken, as a reward for testing, or as a small treat when trimming nails and brushing the teeth. Never does it raise her blood sugar.

I found that when there is more protein, we have lower and more stable numbers with less spikes.

I think that is the goal here. A nice even, level BG readings throughout the day. Once that is acheived then you can raise the insulin dose.

Testing is so much fun, isn't it
__________________
Barb & Abby 12/24/1999-12/31/2013 ~ dx 5/10/2011 ~ Forever in my heart ~
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 11-06-2012, 01:14 PM
Linda1 Linda1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 696
Default Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

I've been giving Jake very small pieces of meat when I feel he needs a special treat for whatever reason. I felt protein would be better than a carb. and assumed it wouldn't do much to his bg numbers. Guess I better check what the meat does to him.
__________________

Jake
11 years old, diagnosed Sept. 24, 2012
novolin N 23 units twice a day. H as needed (as of 11-25-2013)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:53 PM.


Disclaimer -- The content on this site is provided for informational and educational purposes only. While we make every effort to present information that is accurate and reliable, the views expressed here are not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by a licensed veterinarian. Please consult with your veterinarian for specific advice concerning the medical condition or treatment of your pet and before administering any medication or pursuing any course of treatment that you may read about on this site.

The views and opinions expressed by contributors to this forum are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of the owners, administrators, or moderators of this forum and the k9diabetes.com website.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009, 2010 k9diabetes.com. All rights reserved.