FERGY: What's with these numbers?

[Harry]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Thank you Eileen, I had those sites already bookmarked but still not the particular one I was looking for. I have to keep looking. I'm sure to post it here if and when I do rediscover it. It's probably just under my nose, so to speak.

Harry

[Patty]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Sounds like a good link Harry if you find it. I went looking but couldn't come up with it. Let us know if you find it again.
Patty

[Harry]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

I haven't found it yet either, Patty but really didn't put much time in, looking for it.

I made a curve on Fergy yesterday. Fergy was on 2.0 units Novolin N. This curve was after 5 days starting on 2 1/2 units. I missed the 8:00 AM reading but the rest are here. The 4:00 PM reading took two sticks to get a good drop and a bit of excitement before the 5:30 PM pre-meal. I'd like to think that is what caused the dramatic rise from the 14:00 reading. What do y'all think?!

Pre-meal
05:30 AM____322
10:00 AM____133
12:00 PM____89
14:00 PM____137
16:00 PM____258
17:30 PM____438
Pre-meal

I made a pre-meal reading on him this morning and he read 332. I think I did enough lip sticking on Fergy and will give him a rest for a few days.


Harry

[CarolW]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Hi Harry,

I just made a chart of those readings from yesterday - a quick and very basic one.

I'm going to put it in my photo album here, perhaps in an album I'll call "other dog charts" or something like that.

Gosh; apart from a considerable difference between highs and lows, Fergy's chart looks like one that theoretically might be put in a basic book about canine diabetes.

Thu, 20 May 2010 20:02:11 (PDT)

[CarolW]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

I think I succeeded in getting Fergy's chart up.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/albu...&pictureid=785

See if you can see it!

|I'm totally out of it after Hunt Day - need to sleep in BED instead of at the computer - back another time!

Thu, 20 May 2010 20:17:41 (PDT)

[peggy0]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Hi Harry

Are you still feeding him BB? These numbers do look good except for the spike before his meals. I would test premeal and at 12n to make sure that low number does'nt get any lower and to see if the spikes are consistent.

[Harry]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Hi Peggy,

No, Fergy really liked the BB for only one day. He flatly refuses to eat dry food and just sniffs at the canned. I've been feeding him home cooked that I picked up from someone here on the forum. He loves it.

I have been doing what you have suggested...reading his pre-meal in the morning and a noon reading. This Wed. noon reading of 89 has been the lowest. The day before, Tue. was the lowest at 106. Of course, before this week he was on only 2 units of Novolin so his noon readings were in the lower 200's. He is now on 2.5 units.

What's up if he continues to have a good curve from 8 AM to 4 PM but really "spikes on both ends of the 12 hours?! I have no idea?

Harry

[peggy0]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Well it means he's running out of insulin too soon. Unfortunately, with the lowest number you have on your curve, you'd have to adjust the food, in my opinion, to smooth it out a bit. Sometimes you have add something like oatmeal or pumpkin to the diet to accomplish that and maybe even raise the insulin a bit once its added. It's really a science experiment unfortunately. You just have to make small adjustments and see where it goes. If you give us the recipe, we may be able to help you make an adjustment. Patti or one of our other members may have something to add

[Harry]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Thank you Peggy, I do appreciate your help on that as I'm at a loss.

His diet meal is cooked in a Crock Pot with 3 cups of water and consists of:

5 skinless chicken breasts
1 cup Brown rice
2 sweet potatoes
2-3 cups Broccoli florets
2-3 cups Cauliflower
1/2 tspn salt

This amount lasts him about a week. He gets little snacks 2-3 times a day.


I've tried adding spinach and stringbeans but had to "pick: 'em out as he didn't like it.

I just had a thought, how would adding a couple "Pupperoni" sticks to the concoction? He really loved those but hasn't had any since he was dx?!

Thanks for any help.

Harry

[eileen]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Harry,

I'll detail to you what I do for Mildred as I have home cooked for her for several years...maybe some of what I say will be helpful to you.

Because I want Mildred's meals to be very consistent from one to the next as I believe this is very important.

I boil boneless, skinless chicken breasts, drain and puree into a bowl and set aside.
I have also cooked barley which is in another bowl.

I use a scale to weigh out 4oz of chicken breast, dump this into another bowl. I then weigh out 4oz of barley and also put that into the bowl with the weighed chicken. Lastly I weigh 2oz of canned pure pumpkin which I mix thoroughly with the chicken and barley. I then bag this and repeat the steps until all chicken, barley and pumpkin has been carefully weighed, mixed and individually bagged, each bag representing a meal. I put into the fridge a day's worth of bagged meals, freeze the rest taking out one bag from the freezer everytime I use one from the fridge.

The above porportions are figured based on the number of calories that Mildred needs to sustain her current healthy weight.

Cooking everything separately and then combining makes each and every meal exactly the same which works much better with the insulin.
Maybe some of the problems you are seeing with Fergy's numbers are because his meals are not the same from one to the next, with more chicken in one to more of the veggies in the next?

I see no reason for you to add the 'pupperoni' sticks to his concoction...he will not know they are there and you will be adding unneeded 'junk' food.
Keep in mind that a dog has far less taste buds than we as humans have so can not distinguish half of what we sometimes think they need ;-)

In order that Fergy gets all of his needed vitamins it is important that they are supplemented when one goes the home cooked route.

I add a tsp of plain lowfat yogurt to each of Mil's meals after it has been heated in the microwave. In her evening meal I add fish oil, a multivitamin, milk thistle, vit -E and vet prescribed, Epakitin (calcium carbonate as one of the ingredients).

[Patty]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Hi Harry,
I have family here this weekend so haven't been on the board as often.

Some thoughts:

Every dog is certainly different in how they process foods. You might try cutting back on the brown rice and adding some white (unenriched) rice. It would be faster to digest and perhaps level out the curve some. The brown rice is slower to digest and may be contributing to the climb into higher numbers in the afternoon. My experience with sweet potatoes in Ali was the same as brown rice as well. They didn't level her out in the middle but created an earlier rise in the afternoon.

Are you feeding any vitamins with the home cooked or a calcium supplement?

I'm not sure I would add the salt to the recipe unless there was a specific reason.

Patty

Oh, one last thing...with the chicken breasts, many are enhanced with a solution. I'd make sure it has less than 5% added solution if you can.

[Patty]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

I agree with Eileen that cooking and weighing each ingredient separately will give you more consistent results.

There is a site I've seen that offers suggestions on how much calcium to add for the amount of meat you are feeding. I don't have time to look now but you might be able to google it.

[eileen]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Yes, added calcium is important too. The Epakitin that Mil's vet has me using has calcium carbonate.

I agree and had the same thought as Patty...no need to add salt.

I also had the same experience as Patty when using sweet potatoes.
For Mildred barley works much better than brown rice.

I use to just measure Mildred's food but since going to actually weighing it out I can clearly see an improvement. The volume in a measuring cup can vary...the weight will alway be consistent.

I have the chart for the needed amount of calcium tucked away somewhere. I'll look and post it unless some one else does it first.

[eileen]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

The information that I have in my files is to add 900mgs per pound of food.

I see in this link it states 800-1000mgs per pound of food.

http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade3.html

[Harry]

Re: FERGY...Needing advice.

Oh boy...thank you Eileen and Patty. I have a lot to read up on now. I will adjust his diet over to what's been said. I have to go to the market for some fresh supplies as I just made a batch yesterday.

I have been using a postage scale to make sure he gets the same amount each meal but I can see your point that he may be getting more or less of any particular ingredient.

Thank you much. Looking forward to any more help. It now sounds encouraging.

Harry