Apollo

[Debbie & Apollo]

Hi! I found this site after being on the Canine Cushings forum- Thanks!

A brief history - Apollo is almost 9 years old. He developed pancreatitis in November of 2006. He spent 3 nights in the Vet hospital on just IV fluids. We got to bring him home and in 6 days we were back with another round of pancreatitis... again 3 nights in the hospital on just IV fluids. He came home 12/24/06 -- That was the best Christmas present ever!
After the second attack we also wound up with a different Vet (holiday time -on call rotation) That was a blessing! The new Vet got it right -- we had diabetes --
Apollo started on Vetsulin.

The next major event was he developed bladder stones. We were on the road traveling in our motor home (we are retired) - went to a different Vet to see about blood in his urine... long story short we headed home to our Vet!
Apollo had surgery and had 3 large bladder stoned removed.

Due to the stone formation he is now on Royal Canin Urinary SO - wet and dry.

We use urine strips to test his levels now - I wish we had been using them earlier we might have avoided all the complications from the bladder stones.

We have since moved - have a new vet here (we hunted harder for a vet than a house

I would like to start some additional supplements but I am waiting for him to get over a slight UT infection. He is presently on Baytril -- which is giving him a bit of the 'runs' and he also is on an eye drop antibiodic.
Ah, I forgot - he also take Pepcid an hour before his 1st meal.

Apollo seems to be exhibiting signs of Cushings so next week it looks like we'll be doing those tests.

Apollo has been vomiting, drinking more water and we just don't have a handle on the glucose levels - even after making increases in his insulin-- this is why the vet is suggesting we check for Cushings. They want him to feel better so we don't get poor test results.

Thanks for listening - Debbie and Apollo

[rhodesian46]

Re: Apollo

Have you thought of home testing?Is your vet doing curves? I don't know whether the food has anything to do with his Bgs as Pebbles is on Purina DCO I don't know anything about Royal Canin and my dog didn't have bladder stones.Did your vet tell you why he thinks Apollo is vomiting? Drinking more water could be due to not being regulated. Pebbles had an ultrasound,urine creantine test and ACTH stim. I do suggest that you consult with an Internal Med Dr. They deal with multiple problems in dogs all of the time. Your everyday vets usually don't. If money is an issue maybe your vet could consult with via telephone, I took Pebbles to Tx A & M after dealing with a vet that had no idea how to handle Pebbles problems and misdiagnosed her as well. I learned the hard way So it makes me more careful on who handles Pebbles care. I hope Apollo feel better And welcome to the forum

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

Hi Debbie!!

Very happy to see you here!

I'll bet you'd love home blood glucose testing as you're obviously very interested in staying on top of things with Apollo.

Most of the small dogs I know are tested on the back at the base of the tail and Denise's Chihuahua is tested on the upper lip, which is where I test my medium to large dog, Chris.

You can learn more about home testing on the main website at www.k9diabetes.com/monitoring and then see tutorials on many different places to test a dog's blood sugar on the BG test video page. We don't yet have a video of a base-of-the-tail test, but there's a pictorial and text description of how to do it there and videos of the lip test and testing on the pad at the dew claw: www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

You'd be surprised how well they handle the lip. I test Chris a minimum of three times a day because he's on faster acting insulin and gets 4 injections a day. He doesn't mind the lip a bit.

Anyway, just something to consider. It's especially helpful when you're worried that blood sugar could be low.

I always suggest people start with regular meters for people and once they're proficient then they can consider the animal-adjusted meters because the animal-adjusted meters are a LOT more expensive to use. Usually with the human meters you can get the meter free or nearly free after a rebate and the strips are half to a third of the cost of the strips for special meters, which don't actually measure the blood sugar differently. They are coded to adjust the values to an average, which works well for some dogs, not so well for others.

Welcome again!!

Natalie and Chris

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Thank you for the reply.

Yes we are moving towards testing with a meter at home -- I heard an ad on TV for a free meter so I have requested one.. I received a DVD on how to use it... now I'm waiting for the meter.

In the past we have done curves - especially when he first started insulin - also since we moved here he was in for the day and had an excellent curve -- that was awhile ago however....

I told the Vet this visit about using a meter and they will help me - if I need it - this site has great info! I never thought I could give him a shot -- I learned that fast Apollo is an excellent patient.

Our Vet is in contact with an endocronoligist (sp?) at the Univ of Tenn.
The last visit we were with her over an hour checking and talking. I have to say this site and the Cushings site.... well you can't put a price tag on it!
The idea of an Internal Med Dr maybe the way to go -

As of tonight Apollo is feeling much better -- he stole my slippers and put them in his little bed (which is beside my side of the bed). I'm walking around in socks and loving every minute of it!

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Hi -- between here and the Cushings Forum I have had fantastic input, and suggestions!
I am beginning to think Apollo may be having the beginnings of another bout of Pancreatitis. That's why we had the vomiting etc...

I have scheduled the Cushings test for Monday morning. It will take a week to get the results.

Also the Vet was on the phone today with me and we are going to try and swich Apollo over to Hills W/D and use Gold-Vet Potassium Citrate Granules to control the bladder stones (calcium oxalate stones).

Today was a good day -- glucose numbers look very good!

Debbie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

I saw that you were getting some very good information on pancreatitis and hyperlipidemia over at the Cushings board. When I get a chance I'm gonna catch up on Munchie's (I think that was the one) thread on the lipidemia.

Very happy to hear that Apollo's feeling better!!

Natalie

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Thanks Natalie,

yes I am getting fantastic information!
So much is trial and error --- I am sorry to say!
We had changed Apollos food last summer because of the bladder stones - on our Florida Vets advice. But I think it would have been much better to keep him on the low fat (Hills Science Diet -Lite) and add Potassium Citrate to his food.

This is most likely the direction we will be going in--- I do think we will go to the W/D if he will eat it. I really don't see a big difference in the W/D and the Lite.... but the W/D is geared for the Diabetic so....

Anyhow -- tomorrow morning we'll at the Vet - with my list of questions
and my checkbook

thanks
Debbie

[We Hope]

Re: Apollo

Just a note re: switching to W/D. Do it gradually and keep a good eye on Apollo as it can have quite an effect on insulin requirements--lessening them considerably.

When we switched Lucky, we were also going to switch insulin as what he was using at the time was at resistance level and not doing anything. This was before Vetsulin was in the US, so we were going to Lilly Iletin II Lente (pork Lente-discontinued by them in 2003). The insulin was identical to Vetsulin in everything except strength--Iletin was U 100, Vetsulin is U 40.

Since we had to order the Iletin, we switched him to the W/D first. Within 24 hours of that, he had a lot less PU/PD. To be cautious, we decreased the insulin that we were replacing. I believe if he had been on pork Lente at the time we went to W/D, he would have had a hypo.

We had another little guy at the other board who was very easy to control and did well with human NPH insulin. His vet thought switching to W/D would be better for him. When he was switched to the W/D, he did go hypo. He needed less insulin permanently because of the W/D.

You may want to talk with Apollo's vet about the possibility of the W/D lessening Apollo's insulin needs.

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Thank you for the headsup on the possible need to lower the insulin!!!
We have already adjusted down to 5 1/2 units since his readings have gone down in both the AM and PM testing.

We are familiar with hypo spells! after his bladder stone surgery we didn't realize what effect getting the infection cleared up would have on him -- that was a learning curve I don't want to repeat. We keep kayro syrup close by -- even when we travel in the car.

I am still waiting for the meter to arrive - Tomorrow I will pick up the new food and get him going gradually. I still need to get the potassium citrate (looks like I'll have to buy it over the internet). However, until Apollo is on the new food 100% the vet said don't add it to the food.

thanks again

Debbie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

Hi Debbie,

There is very little difference at all between Science Diet Lite you can buy off the shelf and WD. I think you could use either one.

You can compare their ingredients and content in terms of protein, fat, and fiber here:

Prescription Diets: http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/pro...sp?d-49653-p=4

Regular Diets: http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/pro...ienceDiet.hjsp

The one difference we found was that there is soy in the Science Diet Lite and not in the WD, at least not a couple of years ago. For Chris that turned out to make a big difference as we discovered he was allergic to soy.

[BestBuddy]

Re: Apollo

Hi Debbie,
Just wanted to say hi and tell you that Buddy was put on WD when he was first dx. He did well on it but it was expensive and we had to order from the vet 10 days in advance to get it. After a few months I did a bit of research and came up with Science Diet Lite as an alternative so we switched. It worked just as good for him so that is what we fed for the next 4 years, we have changed but only because of Buddy's age and now we are using the Science Diet Mature.
Jenny & Buddy

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Interesting about the W/D and the Lite.

Apollo was on the Lite orginally. I will take the nutritional info with me tomorrow and see what the Vet says.

One thing... I bet the Lite will be cheaper in the long run!

I do remember there was a lot of 'Poop' with the Lite and I think the W/D will have the same results

I'll also check out the Science Diet Mature!

thanks
Debbie & Apollo

[Debbie & Apollo]

tested for Cushings

Hi well we did the test for Cushings test today -- Apollo did super!

The Vet was thrilled about all the information I had learned --
You guys get a GOLD STAR!

I have started to switch his food to W/D. We came to that conclusion after seeing the protein and calorie counts in the Lite and some of the other brands.
The less protein the better for Apollo -- bladder stone problem
and the less fat and calories -- since his Trigl was sooo high.

Hi glucose reading was 159! that's fantastic for him!

I am going to monitor his insulin needs very closely, as you suggested, since we are making the food change... The Vet gave me instructions about how to watch and adjust. Since he is still on Baytril I will go extra slow making the transition to all new food.

thanks again

Debbie and Apollo

[We Hope]

Re: Apollo

Debbie,

Years before diabetes, Lucky had a huge bladder stone removed. Matter of fact, that's where I initially thought his problems were coming from when I brought him in on "D" (diabetes dx) day. We'd been told that everything was fine with the bladder biopsies, but that we had to make sure any UTIs were handled promptly. When I saw he urinated in the house, I made an appointment for that afternoon.

We never had any further problems with his bladder once we got the stone removed and the irritation cleared up with H-Ray laser treatments.

Apollo gets a Gold Star too--he did FANTASTIC today!

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Just wanted to give a brief update -
Apollo will have the last of the Baytril today -
maybe we can get the poop back to normal now

His glucose levels have been very good - we actually have been able to go down to 5 1/2 units in the AM and PM.

The new food (W/D) seems to agree with him - we are still mixing with the old food and will most likely mix all next week - I am thinking ...since he's coming off the Baytril it may shock his system ??

We still don't have the meter -- but the urine strips seem to be working ok for us now.


thanks for listening
Debbie and Apollo