My dog is requiring more insulin than normal.

[Dog Mom]

Can't seem to find out exactly what it is supposed to do. Not sure if I should have my Vet do one on Buddy if he doesn't gain some weight soon. I am going to do another curve on him Saturday. His BG seems to be hovering around the 160's (at least it was this morning and again tonight). Wondering if the can of EVO may be keeping it up there.

[k9diabetes]

Hey Arlene,

I just can't "get" the message in a curve unless I graph it - I think vets might benefit from charting these things. I can look at lists of numbers and get some basics but really need the visual to get a sense of how things are going and especially to compare curves. Sometimes you will have a new curve that's higher or lower than the last one but basically the same shape so you really get a sense of how the food and insulin and working with each other.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

160s is excellent. Buddy will gain weight with blood sugar in that range as long as he's getting enough calories to gain.

They can gain weight even when the blood sugar is mostly in the 200s as they are getting most of the glucose from their food at that point.

I'm betting he just needs more calories per day. You will get there with such great blood sugar readings.

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

Since I am still a newbie at all of this I was wondering if a bladder infection can cause the BG to go up. I am doing another curve on Buddy today and it was 213 when he woke up. Fed him his food and gave him 6U. Tested his ketones just a little while ago and he is spilling. His BG at 8:15 was 165. His BG for the past couple of days has been higher than normal. Wondering if I should cut back on the EVO duck and increase the WD Dry in his food.

[We Hope]

It sure can! Anyone with diabetes is more prone to having infections than those who don't have the disease. Those with diabetes are especially apt to have urinary tract infections because when there's sugar in the urine, it makes a great place for bacteria to multiply.

Most often, when there's an infection, you see the bg's go up but it's also possible to have one and see the bg's go down lower than normal in response to it--a lot like when you're sick--you might run a fever or you might have a below grade temperature.

Buddy needs to have his urine checked and if there is an infection as you suspect, to have the vet prescribe some antibiotics to get rid of it. You might ask your vet if you can bring in a urine sample or if he/she prefers to take one at the hospital.

The food had nothing to do with Buddy's getting the possible UTI; unfortunately it can come with the territory of diabetes.

Kathy

[k9diabetes]

I wonder about the ketone strips... it is very unusual for a dog with such low BGs to have ketones. Any chance they are not functioning properly?

Rebound would be one potential explanation.

[Dog Mom]

I know the food has nothing to do with the infection but I am wondering if I am giving him too much canned...1 can a day (1/2 at each feeding) and 1 cup WD. Have a call into the Vet...just took his BG again and it's 235. This is not like him. BTW, what is rebound?

[We Hope]

When you did the curve you posted, Buddy was getting 1 1/2 cups of W/D dry and 1/3 can of Evo; his numbers were very good--when did you make the change to 1 cup of W/D and 1/2 can of Evo at each meal?

Originally Posted by Dog Mom

Did my first curve on Buddy yesterday and personally I don't think it looks so good. Doing another one today.

DATE TIME LEVEL FOOD
10/24/09 6:30:00 AM B4 FEEDING 180 1 1/2 CUPS WD/1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 LITE COOKIES
GAVE HIM 6U

10/24/09 8:30 AM 70

10/24/09 10:30AM 155 1 LITE COOKIE

10/24/09 12:30P B4 SNACK 251 1/2 CUP GREEN BEANS

10/24/09 2:30p 183

10/24/09 4:30 PM 129

10/24/09 5:15 PM 1 1/2 CUPS WD/1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 LITE COOKIESGAVE HIM 4.5 U

10/24/09 6:30 AM 94

10/24/09 8:30 PM 162

10/24/09 10:30 PM 237

According to this, Buddy was getting more food total when you did this curve than he's getting now. Generally, the more food eaten means more insulin needed to cover it.

Since Buddy needs to gain weight and it's not easy to do that on W/D because it's also used as a weight loss/weight maintenance food, I believe your vet suggested adding the 1 can of Evo daily to help him do that.

Rebound can happen when there's too much insulin being given. Having too much insulin causes the bg's to hit a low and the body's "self-defense" hormones who believe the system is in danger respond to that low by automatically sending the bg's to high levels to try to protect itself.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

When it's a case of rebound, the only way to stop it is less insulin, not more because only with less insulin can you stop the lows that trigger the highs.

According to this specialist, not using a special prescription diet shouldn't have that much effect on bg's:

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com...09%09&pageID=8

Diabetes mellitus (Proceedings)
Apr 1, 2009
By: William D. Schall, DVM, DACVIM
CVC PROCEEDINGS
DVM 360

"The consequences of feeding a non-prescription diabetes diet are usually minimal as the increased dose of required insulin is seldom greater that 2-4%."

The largest portion of what Buddy's eating is prescription diabetes food, so I don't think the 1/2 can of Evo would be causing too much difference in his bg's; he was eating 1/3 of a can of that per meal when you did the recent curve that turned out so nicely.

Kathy

[Dog Mom]

Actually I changed him on Thursday....and it has been since Thursday when I got home that I noticed the change in his BG. The vet is calling in an antibiotic just in case. I guess it looks like I will put him back on his other regime of 1 1/2 & 1/3 Evo. Extremely thankful for this forum.

[Dog Mom]

So when I took his BG this morning it was down to 191. Gave him his 5U and his antibiotic...and I went back to his regular amount of food. I bought new cookies yesterday which have Vitamins E & C in them and are mostly made of Duck like his EVO. I am hoping I can find the cookies cheaper as they were 12.99 for a 16oz bag. They are made by Plato.