Humulin vs. Novolin N causing lows - anyone else?

[theresakae]

I have used Merick (certified low glycemic) and Origen ( also certified low glycemic). Both foods work well but I found a raw dog food and the Origen dry dog good to be my best combination.
The food and insulin regiment worked well for over a year. Thenl Wal-mart changed their contract with Novolin N Insulin and started Humulin N. They told me there would be no difference and all of a sudden, I was dealing with too low blood sugar and now trying to regulate I have been too high. I'm changing back to Novolin N today, but want to know if anyone else has experienced this. I'm hoping I'm not dealing with her becoming insulin resistant. Anyone have any answers for me?

[k9diabetes]

Hi!

Welcome to the forum!

I copied your question to its own thread so it will get more responses.

And I'm sorry to say that I have been getting quite a few reports similar to yours - with the Humulin N seeming to be more potent than the Novolin N and doses having to be decreased.

Which really surprised me because four or five years ago I saw a lot of dogs switching back and forth with the two insulins behaving pretty much identically. For whatever reason, that no longer seems to be the case and I think we will have to start advising people to do maybe a 20% reduction in the insulin dose when switching from Novolin N to Humulin N, whether through Walmart or for some other reason.

Maybe a more important question is whether the regulation is still good once the insulin dose is reduced? Having to give a little less insulin is only a problem if it's not generating the same quality of regulation.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Just popping this up to the top of the list.

[Taylor]

I have only been using the Humulin for a couple of months (my Wal-Mart had a lot of Novolin to use up) but I have had to increase the dose from 34units to 35units and test more often. Taylor seems to be running much higher for the most part but throwing me a low every once in awhile when I least expect it. I’m not sure I am ready to pay the higher price, but things were better on the Novolin. Pat

[jesse girl]

jesse doesnt exactly work well with either as far as staying constant and predictable there are things we do to keep her in good numbers but you cannot get comfortable and take things for granted I could leave her in the 300s and 400s but that will not be good so I try to keep her in the 100s and can do most of the time but she can get those low times out of the blue and highs . I wish there was something more constant maybe its just the way her body works with the insulin (it wasnt developed for dogs ) and thats as good as its get until something else enters the market ( after the vetsilun problems there may not be anything else designed for dogs)

This creates a scenario that I have to test her quite a bit I wish that wasnt the case but thats the trade off for keeping her in better numbers i guess

[Norma Jean]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I have only been using the Humulin for a couple of months (my Wal-Mart had a lot of Novolin to use up) but I have had to increase the dose from 34units to 35units and test more often. Taylor seems to be running much higher for the most part but throwing me a low every once in awhile when I least expect it. I’m not sure I am ready to pay the higher price, but things were better on the Novolin. Pat

Yes Pat, I had a terrible time with the switch with higher numbers and irregular curves and had to return to the Novalin N and things are definately better. It will be interesting to see if more and more have this problem. It is supposed to be the same but after 3 months of trying everything to figure it out I was done and now back to Novolin. Back to reads between 100 to 264. Good Luck, Norma Jean

[eileen]

With Mildred it was as simple as a slight reduction in her insulin dose when I switched her over to Humulin N.
And, I can not even say for sure it was the insulin and not just her body ready for a change, and in this case, a reduction in insulin.
Her great numbers continue now on Humulin N.

A friend of mine who is a homeopathic doctor and who teaches diabetes awareness and education, who has a recently diagnosed dog herself, suggests that if there were any significant difference between Humulin N and Novolin N they would not both be NPH insulin.

[k9diabetes]

I agree that there shouldn't be a significant difference and I've said for years that they are interchangeable even in terms of dosing.

But I've gotten a handful of reports from people transitioning from Novolin to Humulin who are finding that they need to give less units of the Humulin. Strictly anecdotal but in much higher numbers than I would have expected.

So in the name of caution, I would now recommend that the dosage be lowered some... not more than 20%, maybe more like 10% or a unit or two... when making the switch just in case there is a difference.

You never know what might be happening with the manufacturers - Vetsulin has certainly taught us that. These insulins are not much of a profit maker for the drug companies as they are long out of patent - they would much rather be selling Lantus, Levemir, Novalog, etc.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Natalie

[eileen]

I can't help but think that in some cases if blaming the insulin has just become a 'scapegoat' for other actual issues.

[CarolW]

Eileen - I think if a person is keeping careful observations and GOOD RECORDS - blaming the insulin MIGHT make sense. I once wondered about my vial of Novolin, whereupon Novo Nordisk tested my vial free of charge. The insulin was good. So much for that one! It's a reputable company, and I'd never had trouble with Novolin-N before, and there WERE other possible causes.

However, if record-keeping is sloppy, blaming the insulin REALLY doesn't make sense at all. The place to start is, understanding the difference between data (observed phenomena, carefully-recorded) and interpretation. It's not possible to interpret sloppy data and at the same time, expect to come up with facts.

Sometimes insulin does go bad; as Natalie has pointed out - often, in transit (shipping), and we've all probably heard how, at times, clerks in pharmacies mis-handle insulin. Percentages for damage caused by such mis-handling are probably fairly low, and/or scattered, maybe depending on the pharmacy.

Just had one other thought. Our own memories notoriously betray us, so record-keeping needs to be done on the spot at the moment the data are available, and (again) done with care and attention.

So, a first step is to check one's own observations and record-keeping. If we tighten that up, then we might reasonably start questioning the vial we have.

Fri, 25 Feb 2011 01:14:58 (PST)