Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Thanks for all your input. The digestive issues do make it all really complicated. She’s been eating food she’s been sensitive to (acid reflux and/or allergens causing soft stools) since diagnosis. I wonder if that could have been driving her numbers up all along and maybe now that they’re removed (hopefully!) she needs less?? I just have no idea. Too many changing variables.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

So she hit 105 at 10:15 (4 hrs). Since I know her nadir is usually 5-6 hrs I played it safe and gave her some rice and turkey so she wouldn’t go lower. One hour later (11:15) she went up to 170.
I do think she runs higher at night AND the probiotic/prebiotic is in 1x/day in her AM food only so that may change how she digests. I tend to think she needs more at night though. Whenever I took readings at night she was always a little higher than that same time during the day.
This is crazy though. I guess I have to lower her dose again, but how much?? 9u? 8u? On 11.5-12u of 70/30 she was basically getting 8-8.5u of N.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Well i have worked backwards before lowering the dose to find regulation because initially jesse was on to much insulin ( lower than a normal starting dose )

I was surprised to see how low she went on just nph and 10 units . You should reduce the dose from what you are seeing today as nighttime is harder to track with sleeping and all

What dose that would be is a decision you would have to make and what your comfortable with maybe 1 to 2 units .Like i said i was surprised what you saw on 10 units

The once a day probiotic could make a difference . It may speed up digestion over the 12 hour time period with it . I did that with jesse with a probiotic and a digestive enhancer and digestion seemed to pick up a bit faster with more sugar after eating but i cant be sure because we cant test where sugar comes from the body or digestion

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

She’s only been getting the probiotic for the past 10 days or so. Agree it could impact her digestion day vs night. But the trends of running higher at night and the 400s by 8-9 hr mark predate the probiotic.
I am def going to reduce like you said. Its a big drop but I may just take her down to 1.5 or 2u to 8-8.5 since that’s basically how much N she was getting with the 70/30. She was ok last night and I didn’t have to intervene but she did drop fast and 100 is lower than I’m comfortable with especially at night.
Is there a basic standard that if you reduce 1u you’ll see lows increase X amount?

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Once again its every dog is different . The problem is your on a new insulin regiment so you have no history on dosing maybe you could get some info from the 70/30 curves but i dont know you could correlate that .

I can usually say by adding a half unit for jesse that can be a 25 to 50 point reduction at the lowest number and she gets 2.5 to 3 units at a time . I just dont see how you could correlate jesses routine to your dogs situation

It really is an instinct type thing and i think you understand your dogs trends . You made a good decision to go with a lower dose last night

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I know potatoes are a bad idea for diabetics, but I’m starting to wonder if rice just isn’t cutting it on the bland diet. After four days she finally pooped (yay) but it’s super soft and bordering on diarrhea again : ( I started adding a tbs of pumpkin on sat to get things moving and maybe that just isn’t good for her? Or maybe it’s unrelated. It’s like whenever she’s on metronizadole it slows things down too much... then once it’s moving again it’s still not normal.
Anyway I’ve read potatoes are good for diarrhea and her old dry food had potatoes as the starch/carb so it’s not foreign to her. Should I do potatoes instead of rice? I don’t want to end up with her constipated again, but some regularity would be nice. I have russet and sweet. Is one safer/better than another?

[amydunn19]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I looked at those, but I’ve read mixed things about brewer’s yeast (an ingredient in the food). Some say it turns to sugar and to steer clear. I don’t know if it’s true but I’ve been trying to avoid it in ingredients just in case.
The Wellness LID foods have 11-12% fat, but they’re pretty high carb.
I went with 10u N last night and today. I’ll do straight N all week and see how she does. I know it’s not a good test after only one time and needs a week with consistent diet to settle, but my concern is mostly with her dropping too low at peak when I’m not around or am sleeping so I tested a few times last night. She hit a low of 108 at 6hr mark. At what point do I lower the dose again just to be safe? If she goes below 100?

To be honest, when you have a dog with gut issues, it is more important to find ingredients that help the gut issue, then work on diabetes. Remember that dogs need carbs to balance with insulin. You can’t really go by what “experts” say should work because my little Maggie spent her diabetic life proving many experts wrong. I think you should try things and see what works for your dog. I had to - it was very scary but I found out the rules aren’t necessarily in stone. You just be careful to make one change at a time. That way, you can undo the last thing you did if it goes off the rails.

Many dogs tolerate potatoes just fine and sugar wise as well.. Some believe sweet potato is a better choice. Maggie could not tolerate white potatoes (if she got even a small bite of something with white potatoes, my carpet or clothes would be wearing it in short order) but she did great with sweet potatoes. It is a mystery why but that was just the way it was. And some say the gas is bad with white potatoes too. But that is probably case to case basis.

When people would talk about Ingredients and such, and this food being good or bad, my thought was always, I don’t care if it is cardboard, if Miss Picky will eat it and not throw it up and I can keep her blood sugar decent, we have the right food for her. It can be eye opening when you open yourself up to possibilities.

You will turn into a detective too. Bet you didn’t know all the hats you would be wearing.

[Raysaint]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

The good bacteria in a gut feeds off of fiber. Good fiber helps keep the good bacteria plentiful, and that can help with stools.

Pinto beans, blueberries, peas are examples of good gut fiber sources.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I know fiber has been an issue. There’s been almost zero fiber in her diet for too long. Mostly because I was trying to keep it easy on her system after bouts of diarrhea but it creates other problems. I did do sweet potatoes last night and this morning. I halved the amount of rice I had been doing and subbed sweet potatoes. I just wanted to play it safe and not go all in immediately.
We have an appt with a new dr, internal med specialist, tmw. I’m hoping he’ll be of help. It just feels like we’re always sliding backwards.

[Raysaint]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

With no fiber the bad bacteria can eat at the linings of the colon and things and cause inflammation, which can cause the runs.
The right fiber might be the answer.
Are you sure fiber is causing the runny poo?

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I don’t think fiber is causing the runny poo. I suspect too much protein and not the right (and not enough) carb is doing it. And probably not enough fiber.
I saw a specialist today and it was pretty much useless. They said to put her on RC glycobalance 100% and if it worsens diarrhea temporarily so be it. That I just need to do a switch. I’m not opposed RC food, but the #2 ingredient is barley and I told him that when I fed her barley it gave her acid reflux. I’m really frustrated with vets/drs these days.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Just a small update on Lucy. So her Gi issues have FINALLY been resolved and I have her on a dry food (wellness core reduced fat) with a little bit of ground turkey for more appeal. And no acid reflux on this food *knocks on all the wood*. I also switched her insulin to Levemir last Thursday and for the first time I’m seeing fasting numbers under 300.
The food is a bit of a problem because it spikes her BG about 100 points. It’s probably the potatoes, but I suspect things like chickpeas, lentils and barley give her reflux so that doesn’t leave me many options. I’m not used to a food spike because Lucy was previously on Novolin 70/30 and then Novolin N. Both of them started acting pretty quickly in her and she never really got a food spike. But then they quit working around the 8 hr mark and she’d be back to 400s. I think she metabolized NPH more quickly so it stared working sooner than normal, but then stopped working early.
Levemir truly takes 2 hours to start working for Lucy. It hasn’t even been a week and the dosage will need tweeking, but I’m seeing fasting numbers in the mid 200s for the first time ever. The problem though is that her food spikes her 100+ points in the 2 hours before Levemir starts working and then it takes another 4 hrs to bring her back down to high/mid 200s. Her curve has changed from a bowl shape to more of a mountain and the nadir is at about the 10 hr mark now.
It’s only been a few days so too early to draw firm conclusions, but so far I think it’s going in a good direction. I’m really hoping that maybe she’ll get used to the food and have less of a spike because I dread another food change.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

A 100 point spike after shot and food is very common . So if the nadir comes down to 150 and spike to 250 thats a pretty good range

I would not worry about that right now as you said the fasting is much better and all numbers may improve after the regulating process of the new insulin is complete

still early but a positive sign

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

It’s just better that I’m seeing less drastic drops and increases. It’s all very gradual on levemir. I do think things will hopefully level out a bit more given time. She’s only been on this food 100% for a few days and at a better (slightly higher) dose of levemir since Sat. I know it can take some time to adjust especially with both a food and insulin change.
Feeling good about the trend though!

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Very nice. Hope things continue to improve now that she is on Levemir. Mountain curves are good... you don’t have to worry so much about low BG in between fastings.