New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

[Cebe]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Tell us more about your home testing attempts. What size lancet are you using, where are you trying to get the blood, what kind of meter, etc.

I have a lab mix and i use her carpal pad for testing. I wasn't fast enough with the lip test, so carpal became my favored spot, and she tolerates it well enough.

I disagree with your vet about the food. There's another dog's thread that discusses this, too. apparently, a lot of dogs get better regulation on W/D but I never tried it because my dog has allergies, and my vet said to keep the non-allergic food as opposed to changing her diet to a diabetic food because it was more important to keep the allergies at bay rather than try to regulate with that particular food. Point is, that the type of food is not an absolute, and you can try other things.

I've had luck keeping my dog's weight constant on Pinnacle food that I buy at Petco. It's a limited ingredient food with a lot of protein.

[Patty]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

This week, he has gone in at 2 pm every day to be checked.
On Monday, they had him on 17 units 2x daily. His reading was 396. They upped him to 20 units. - increase of 3 units
Checked Tuesday, he was about 450. They upped him to 22 units, - increase of 2 units
and today it was back in the 390s.... so she upped him to his max (apparently?) at 25 units and she wants to check him on Friday. - increase of 3 units

Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about the way this is being handled? He has never shown any signs of going too low, so I guess that is not a major concern right at this point....but still.

Cosmo has had an 8 unit increase in insulin in 3 days based on one reading taken in the middle of each day. This worries me MORE than a little bit.

Any change in insulin dose needs at least 3-5 days to settle in. The background insulin can build up over the next few days and drop his numbers even further.

He needs a full curve done to know how the food/insulin are working together. His low point may not actually be the "classic" 6 hours post injection. Some dogs have a mountain shape curve where low points are at food/insulin time. Others may have a sharp drop in the first couple of hours then rise in the afternoon.

The higher numbers you see can also be the result of a sharp drop or low blood sugar at some point during the day, causing the body's protective mechanisms to kick in and release glucose from the liver into the bloodstream. The body can only do this for so long before it's reserves are exhausted.

Your vet's approach is a very dangerous one and I fear Cosmo could have a hypoglycemic episode with such a rapid increase in insulin. You would need to rub honey, karo, or pancake syrup on his gums if this happens.

I just went back to look at Cosmo's weight that you initially posted. Sounds like he may be under 35 lbs now.

If this were my dog, I would drop the dose back to 17 or even 18 units and have a full curve done if he hasn't had one recently. You really need to know how low he is going before increasing his insulin. Even a 1/2 unit can have quite an impact on many dogs.

Some potential reasons to consider for persistant high blood sugar can also include Urinary Tract Infection/other infection and insulin bottle has lost potency if used too long. There are other reasons as well but these are 2 of the most common.

Please let us know if he's had a full curve done recently. We can certainly help with ideas to make testing easier.

Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about the way this is being handled? He has never shown any signs of going too low, so I guess that is not a major concern right at this point....but still.

No you definitely are NOT wrong to be uncomfortable with the way your dog's blood sugar is being managed. No way would I give those kinds of increases in insulin dose to 13-pound dog. And I wouldn't give them in quick succession. And I wouldn't give them without doing a serial blood glucose curve.

Any inflammation and any infection can raise blood sugar. So the eye problems alone could be making a major contribution.

Does the eye ointment contain a steroid?

Even in eye ointments, steroids also often raise blood sugar. Unfortunately, some vets don't believe that but we've seen many many cases where it has been absolutely clear that the steroid in the eye drop or ointment was being absorbed into the bloodstream and raising blood sugar.

When was a full curve last done?

Spot checks at 2pm don't tell me anything - and they don't tell the vet anything either. Blood sugar can be going through a very large swing between highest and lowest. Some dogs whose insulin and food are poorly balanced can have blood sugar that starts at 500, drops to 100, and rises back to 500 in 12 hours. Check that blood sugar in the middle of the sharp drop or the sharp rise and you will get a 396 and have no idea that the blood sugar is actually going quite low some hours earlier or later.

So a good blood glucose curve is absolutely essential. And I think it should be done on 17 or 18 units about three to five days after going back to that dose.

Fill us in on what's been done and what hasn't and we can offer additional thoughts.

Natalie

[Shellie]

Re: New to Diabetes: Stopping Weight Loss

I'll agree with everyone on the insulin and the testing that needs to be done. One reading just can't cut it.

However...on the food issue...many of us have tough dogs who won't eat this or that and we've had to figure out what on earth TO feed them. If he has no issues such as allergies or pancreatitis...you can feed your dog what he'll eat...or what YOU want to feed him...really!

You will find that there are a lot of great foods out there that work beautifully for diabetic dogs and if needed, you can always tweatk the diets here and there by adding in more carbs or protein or varying the amount given. www.dogfoodadvisor.com is a great place to really get the skinny on the dog foods out there...and I like the fact that they do tend to be somewhat unbiased about what they promote. Just the facts.

I would suggest that you continue with the current food for now however and deal with the insulin dosing and testing first. You need to get that under some control before you start working with diet. Any changes in anything that impacts your dog's sugar should be done and allowed to settle in for a minimum of five days before any more changes are made. You have to allow time for the dog's body to adjust and allow you to get a clear idea of what changed. It's also good to only make one change at a time so you know exactly what caused what. You don't want to be doing insulin change and food change at the same time or you won't have a clue what affect either one had.

Sounds like you are ready to take some control tho and that's great! We really do need to be advocates for our dogs and deep down, we KNOW them better than the vet. So good luck and hugs! Been there and still there and know how you feel!