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  #31  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:42 PM
stardeb55 stardeb55 is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Excess production of the associated hormones, usually estradiol, progesterone, & 17-OH can cause the same sorts of liver damage that the excess cortisol will do. I almost sure that skin & coat issues are a common problem, too.

I'm not doubting your vet's word, but I think there may be a misinterpretation of what Dr. Oliver has said, this is why it's important to get a copy of that treatment recommendation sheet. The following link is the treatment recommendation straight from the UTK website, it might be good to review. I would also suggest you take a look at the enclosed link for Dr. O's article on steroid profiles.

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en.../treatment.php

Hope this helps.

Debbie
  #32  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Coolidge Coolidge is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

What I would give for a webpage that listed the complications of atypical cushings. Something that people can understand.

So basically she is in the same boat she was before, other than a final diagnosis.

I will still have to watch her closely, liver and other organs can still be affected.

I will have them fax me a copy tomorrow.

In the meantime, thank you thank you thank you. The expertise on this board is unsurpassed.
  #33  
Old 05-11-2009, 04:38 PM
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gpgscott gpgscott is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Sorry I have not posted to you earlier, it has been a crazy period.

Yes, get the treatment recommendation.

It will most likely be melatonin and lignans.

It is not a profound treatment like Lydosren or Trilo and that is because these other hormones although profound in their effect over time are not as immediately affected.

My Moria has been on melatonin and lignans now for almost 2 years. She is 15 years old. She is responding well to the treatment.

Scott
  #34  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:20 PM
Coolidge Coolidge is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Results are in:

Cortisol:
Baseline: 24.2 ng/ml (Normal 2.1-58.8)
Post Acth: 83.1 ng/ml (Normal 65-174.6)
Androstendedione:
Baseline: 0.03 ng/ml (Normal 0.05-0.57)
Post Acth: 0.80 ng/ml (Normal 0.27-3.97)
Estradiol:
Baseline: 63.4 pg/ml (30.8-69.9)
Post Acth: 54.2 pg/ml (27.9-69.2)
Progesterone:
Baseline: 0.13 ng/ml (0.03-0.49)
Post Acth: 1.60 ng/ml (0.10-1.50)
17 OH Progesterone:
Baseline: 0.11 ng/ml (0.08-0.77)
Post Acth: 2.22 ng/ml (0.40-1.62)
Aldosterone***
Baseline: 76.1 pg/ml (11-139.9)
Post Acth: 141.4 pg/ml (72.9-398.5)

*** Normal range values for male and female dogs (N=72 baseline, N-23 post ACTH)

Dr. Oliver's Comments: Most hormone levels are normal, but both progestin's are modestly increased at stim. Consider items 2 or 3 or 5 on the treatment option sheet attached.

Feel free to comment. Thanks. (Am I the only one who thinks these "abnormal" findings are extremely mild, and that Cushing's really isn't the cause for her problems?")

Please note that I just realized his recommendation is different from what my vet told me he said. Have asked for clarification.

Last edited by Coolidge; 05-12-2009 at 03:29 PM. Reason: need to add again
  #35  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:19 PM
stardeb55 stardeb55 is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Could you post exactly what items 2,3,5 are? Yes, the elevations are mild compared to some that I've seen. The standard treatment of melatonin + lignans is pretty mild, so it might be the best thing to try. If it doesn't help, at least, it can't hurt.

Debbie
  #36  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:30 PM
AlisonandMia AlisonandMia is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

This is the UTK's treatment recommendation sheet: http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/en...ushing%27s.pdf

Alison
  #37  
Old 05-13-2009, 05:19 AM
Coolidge Coolidge is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

The treatment, according to Dr. Oliver would be:

2) Melatonin or
3) Melatonin implants or
5) Lysodren maintenance dose

I'm thinking (and waiting for it to be confirmed) that my vet pointed out that Coolidge is very sensitive to lysodren. So he probably recommended at that point to switch it to flaxseed or melatonin or Trilostane. However, reading up on the trilostane, we really don't want to go there because its not recommended for dogs with the higher progesterones. So I think the flaxseed and melatonin will be our course of action.

So she's mildly atypical cushings. Seeing what she is going through and being mild, I don't envy what you are all going through. Coolidge is experiencing a hiccup in her road of life. Others are experiencing tidal waves.
You all are tremendous in your love for your furkids.

ps. I'm having the vet check all of Coolidges records to find out if Coolidge was ever specifically tested for Diabetes.

Last edited by Coolidge; 05-13-2009 at 05:21 AM. Reason: over 50 forgive me...
  #38  
Old 05-13-2009, 05:59 AM
Coolidge Coolidge is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

I've probably asked this before, but what does one do with extra lysodren that they aren't going to use?

I have 15-20 500mg pills I halved for Coolidge. Before it expires, I'd like to find a home for it.
  #39  
Old 05-13-2009, 01:55 PM
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Wylie's Mom Wylie's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Regarding the Lysodren - I would donate them to an animal rescue or shelter if they could use it or see if your vet could donate them to a client.

I'm thinking that the flaxseed lignans are not necessary... I believe it is primarily for the patients that have increased estradiol levels. But see what the others think about this or double check with Dr. O.

-Susy
  #40  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:26 PM
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Wylie's Mom Wylie's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Coolidge...

Becky,

I was trying to get more background information on Coolidge... here's the first page of your cc.net thread:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

You had posted on 01/02/2009:
"Results of the ACTH stim test following the loading phase was 0.9 and 0.6 ug/dl. (That was the 20th of October)...Latest are Sample 1 (5.5 ug/dl) and Sample 2 (8.8 ug/dl)."

This is from your first post on this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolidge View Post
It's been since the middle of October since she was loaded, and only one dose of Lysodren on Jan 1st.
I'm confused - I just want to make sure - please confirm that we are sure Coolidge does not have regular Cushing's? The "within range" cortisol levels on the UTK panel are not due to the Lysodren?

-Susy

Last edited by Wylie's Mom; 05-13-2009 at 02:36 PM.
 

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