Daisy's Story

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

This is from one of the pages from Natalie on the forum and the curve looked similar to Daisy's:

In this curve, the blood sugar falls sharply because there is more action from the insulin in the first three hours after the injection is given. The food isn't keeping up with the insulin. And then the insulin runs out (because it was used up so quickly) and the blood sugar goes high again.

So my question is- do you add more fat? More protein? More fiber? What foods will allow the the food to keep up with the insulin?

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Daisy's Story

I think this is the curve you are referring to...



I'm no food expert, but one way to prolong the duration of insulin would be to add more complex carbohydrates (fiber) to diet.

Funny thing though... Looking at that curve, my first thought is that it might be Somogyi Rebound, with the body reacting to a fast drop in BG buy releasing stored glucose.

[jesse girl]

Re: Daisy's Story

you would need highly digestible food .things like protein digest slowly . fiber slows the overall process of digestion . fat puts stress on the pancreas .

i remember giving Jesse pancakes . white rice potatoes and bread . i think with jesse her digestive system had a problem so things just did not digest very well . so she struggled with dropping blood sugar early after insulin

we improved things by splitting her dose . half with dinner and the other half 2 hours latter

my thought insulin isnt running out its just being overwhelmed by internal sugar reserves but we cant know for sure . its all a bit of a guess but if you guess wrong you can be going in the wrong direction as i did with jesse .

i actually had to take a break from the forum because my head was going to explode and needed a quiet place to figure things out

the one thing with the forum its a great resource but it seems to be difficult to find the perfect answer for your situation . why that is i dont know . jesse is my Frankenstein diabetic . i took pieces and parts from others and created something unique

there was not one individual that could tell me what to do and i could not understand why and the reason there just is to many factors that come into play thats unique to each individual dog

you will figure it out. may not be perfect but workable . jesse has had a pretty good run lately she goes in and out of quality regulation with her range . usually for her a reduction helps . down to a couple units per shot . mind boggling for a 25 pound dog and if i went by the typical rules jesse would have not reached her book on regulation

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

Her nadir runs about 6 hours later around 190. (I don't have her regulated yet, I was going to go another .5 units Saturday if her curve showed she needed it which I'm sure it will) I've checked her at about a week straight at 430-5p and she's at 225 or so. Then around 5:30 -6p she's at 450 again. She eats around 615ish, sometimes closer to 630, 12 hours apart.

I let her settle in for at least 3-4 days before I slowly change her food. Tonight I gave her Hills Weight Mgt. that had more fiber in it along with her Stewbie. I just checked her and she hasn't come down much. So I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

So I can't tell if it's Somogyi or her insulin is running out early or maybe like Jessegirl said, sugar reserves.

we improved things by splitting her dose . half with dinner and the other half 2 hours latter

I can see why. When she was in the 750+ a couple weeks ago the vet told me to give her 3 units, then 2 hours later another 3. She was down to 300 at fasting.

[LizE]

Re: Daisy's Story

I also see good results when I split my dog's dose.

I split Snicker's dose when she doesn't eat right away (often caused when her bg is running high). She gets half the dose before she eats, a walk around the block, and then assuming she eats she get the other half. The second dose is usually 1 hour later.

The split dose almost always helps bring her numbers in line right away as opposed to floating down over a few days.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Daisy's Story

hi.

i dont say its curve time. it takes a week for changes. you just fed hills. yesterday you fed Daisy NAtural balance.

i would stick with the Stewie feeding the right amount of food according to her weight. okay this is important. wait a week then do a curve without any changes.

regulation is under 250 .

right amount of food meeting up with insulin also adding timed exercise.

no additives. no changes for at least 7 days then do a curve

i.d stop the R fast acting insulin to see the effects of the nph long acting insulin. unless Daisy is very high bg say 500

questiions
are you injecting right after feeding??
are you injecting close to a blood supple mid back above the front leg
how much stewie r you feeding?

mo

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

are you injecting right after feeding??
are you injecting close to a blood supple mid back above the front leg
how much stewie r you feeding?

I'm injecting at feeding. Actually right when she's eating.
I get her sample from her ear and inject up and down her mid back, alternating sides.
She used to get 1 1/8 cup Stewbie. She's now on 1/2 c Stewbie and the rest doggie food.

We walk approximately 1 mile every evening, depending on the heat.

I use the R because around 530am-pm she jumps up from mid 200's to 4-500's. If I can get her in closer range, I can discontinue the R.

She was pretty well regulated on Stewbie and 4.9 (no R at all) units up until a month ago. When she stopped her antibiotics for a UTI, the next day is when she went out of whack and started 600-700's at fasting and hasn't been right since. Her vet said it was her food so I slowly was adding RC Glycol. It made her miserable so I've been trying to get a dog food that agrees with and doesn't have too much fat and more fiber. I don't know what to do.

Thanks!!!!!!!

[CraigM]

Re: Daisy's Story

Just wondering how you are measuring .9 units?

Craig

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

Just a teensy bit under 5 on the 3/8 syringes. If I hit 5 she would go up, but if I stayed a teensy bit under 5, she was fine. So I call it 4.9.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Daisy's Story

I'm injecting at feeding. Actually right when she's eating.
I get her sample from her ear and inject up and down her mid back, alternating sides.
She used to get 1 1/8 cup Stewbie. She's now on 1/2 c Stewbie and the rest doggie food.

We walk approximately 1 mile every evening, depending on the heat.

I use the R because around 530am-pm she jumps up from mid 200's to 4-500's. If I can get her in closer range, I can discontinue the R.

She was pretty well regulated on Stewbie and 4.9 (no R at all) units up until a month ago. When she stopped her antibiotics for a UTI, the next day is when she went out of whack and started 600-700's at fasting and hasn't been right since. Her vet said it was her food so I slowly was adding RC Glycol. It made her miserable so I've been trying to get a dog food that agrees with and doesn't have too much fat and more fiber. I don't know what to do.

Thanks!!!!!!!

a 1/2 cup is good according to her weight
adding more food then that will raise her blood sugar
if the problem started after stopping the antibiotics i would think theres still an infection.
blood tests will solve that.
maybe Daisy girl needs another round of antibiotics?
hows her peeing? and water intake?

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

if the problem started after stopping the antibiotics i would think theres still an infection.
blood tests will solve that.

They checked her and her infection was gone. No Cushings, no UTI, which was what she was on antibiotics for.

But.......
I thought, nothing is working, I'll try splitting her dose. I gave her 3.5u (3/4 of her food)at 6a then 1u at 8a (1/4 of her food). She started coming down. I have a 4 day weekend so I can keep a real close eye on her and yesterday she ran in the mid 200's then down to 150-200 for most of the day, then this evening she was 140 fasting. I haven't used any R in 2 days.

We're getting there..... I hope.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

I think we're on the right track.

Fasting bs has been 124-258 for the past couple of days on 3.5 units Novolin N q 12 h. No more R, no splitting the dose.

She's eating 1/2 c Hills Healthy Weight, 1/2 c Stewbie, 2 tbs brown rice and 1 tsp pumpkin.

I'm holding my breath, but instead of an increase, she needed a decrease in insulin.

Weather permitting, I'll do a curve on Saturday.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

Well, the 3.5 every twelve hours didn't work for long. I tried different dog food combinations, giving her brown rice, pumpkin, dog food, Stewbie, a mixture of both, a snack in the afternoon, nothing was working. Fasting numbers high 500-600. Nadir in the 100-200's.

So......I think I found something that did remembering what Mike said about her insulin running out.

I feed her at 6am 1/4 cup Hills Healthy Weight and 3/4 cup Stewbie (If I give her any more Hills her numbers go through the roof), half a vitamin and a tsp. vinegar with her 2.5 units N.

At 7-7:15a she gets 4 green beans and 1.5 units N. This pulls us through enough until 6pm feeding. At 6p she gets fed with 2.5 units N, we go for our walk then at 7-715p she get her 4 green beans and 1.5 units N.

If I give her any food or a treat with the second injection (1.5 units) she skyrockets and is up in the 500-600's at fasting.

Her nadir yesterday was 110, staying in the mid 100's until almost 5p, then up to 270 at 6p. The fact that she's under 300 at fasting is a miracle.

My question: How long is too long after eating to give her the second reduced dose (a little over 1/3 of her insulin for the feeding) of insulin with her green beans? I would like to try and wait 1 1/2 hours for the second dose instead of 1-1:15 hours to try and stretch her out of the high 200's at fasting.

On another positive note- Daisy withstood 80mph gusts. When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

[jesse girl]

Re: Daisy's Story

sometimes you just have to think out side of the box to attain your goals. thats what we had to do with jesse

wow those were some big swings i seen that with jesse early in her diagnosis

hope this works for daisy

[Daisydog10]

Re: Daisy's Story

What a horrible two months this has been. Daisy didn't last very long on the split dose.

Her vet was adamant on her switching over to dog food so I was slowly introducing Hills Healthy Weight....

I've been doing curves on her every weekend as I added more food. The more dog food I introduced the earlier her Nadir and the faster her insulin ran out. The pattern really became clear last week when she was up to 1/2 cup Hills Healthy Weight and 1/2 cup Stewbie. I did a curve on her Saturday and her nadir was at 10:30am (she eats at 6a/6p) and her curve started going up by 1:30p. By the time 4:00 rolled around she was back in the 4-500's. I spot checked her on Sunday and the same thing so I gave her a little over .5u at 2p to try and ward off a 500+ reading at 6. She was 468 at 4:30p. I am failing miserably at the expense of my Daisy.

Last night I decided to h*ll with what the vet wants. I gave her 3.5 units, no splitting doses and no dog food, just her stewbie. I carefully measured the caloric/cup/ounces on a food scale to adapt to the weight she should be at, as she has lost several pounds through this ordeal. This morning she was at 175 fasting.

When I got home from work at 5p she was 268, a far cry from 4-500's she was at by 3-4p.

I'm still holding my breath and praying hard. I can't lose her.