Bogie - miniature schnauzer

[BogiesMom]

Re: Brown Rice or Pearled Barley

Thank you for your fast replys... I'll give the barley a try tonight and see how that works and I can always go to the brown rice.
Thanks again

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Brown Rice or Pearled Barley

Hi Dawn,

If Bogie drops very quickly after food/injection, then you want something that will react very quick as well. That would be something like white rice, bread, pasta..

A more complex carb, such as Brown Rice and Pearl Barley would take longer to digest, and may keep him more even for a longer period of time.

I tried Lentils, and that really did nothing for Abby's drop... so I started to move up on the Glycemic range... and found millet, only cooked 12 mins to be the ticket.

It truly is trial and error... and always have honey on the side, and ready to go. Also, that 86 number may have scared you, and if Bogie was trending down, certainly a reason to be concern... but I would suspect that 86 he was still in a safe range. Certainly at a range too close for comfort, but I would not suspect that he would be hypo at 86.

I used a similar chart when attempting to find a carb that I could use to flatten Abby's curve.

http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

I had found that lentils did not raise her much, and found that I could adjust the millet to get the effect I needed.

This is the millet that I get:

http://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Red-Mill-.../dp/B0052OP2CU

Also, I have found it at Whole Foods, or any co-op or food store that sells bulk food.

Barb

[jesse girl]

Re: Brown Rice or Pearled Barley

it all depends on the low point (nadir) you see if bogie is dropping early then a quick acting carb maybe better if its later then a slower acting might work and very late probably wont make much of a difference

if the the numbers are slow to drop and slow to rise probably just need to reduce the dose and that might do the job i never have a problem doing that with jesse if her numbers dictate it

the carb i use for jesse is yams a form of sweet potato not sure how well it works anymore because her curve completely changed and does not drop at onset but she likes it and it has some nutritional benefit and i believe her body does process it so we kept it

[BogiesMom]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Thank you Barb and Jessie Girl,
I guess the 86 spooked me a bit since Bogie has always been so hard to bring down and my previous Vet told me we didn't want him below 100.
What would you consider a hypo event?? Would it be below 70? My new Vet hasn't mentioned a number to me.
He stayed pretty level today... his fasting BG tonight was 166, depending on how he does tomorrow I will go from there.
Thank you again for all of your help… Bogie has come so far with all of your information and help!!!

[jesse girl]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

i think a hypo event would show the symptoms of not enough blood sugar to the brain of coarse the worst of these is a seizure

for me i prefer jesse to be above a 100 but i don't freak to much anymore if she is lower because she doesn't drop the way she use to so i know we have time to see if things stabilize and i know her pattern quite well if she was low and still way off from her nadir i may have to do something its all about information

so hard to say where the level is between low blood sugar and a hypo event i dont think you want to get to that point so i would have intervene with that number in the 80s its still new for you with insulin and a new food so as your vet said probably better to be a bit higher establish a pattern then think about tighter regulation if you want

remember many dogs do just fine ranging from 150 to 250 just to put it into perspective

[amydunn19]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Maggie's last hypo was at 31 and I would describe it as pre-seizure. She was shaking (especially her legs) and she tried to get up but fell on her face. Her previous episodes when she was close to seizure - she was very lethargic like she didn't have the strength to get up. She actually had a seizure at 25 on my meter. I can always tell when she is lower (45-60), she acts really hyper, scratching at my leg with bugged out eyes demanding attention. I don't consider that to be hypo but certainly something I want to feed immediately. I don't use any syrup at that point - usually some pieces of kibble or a biscuit or some freeze dried meat treats. Nothing that brings her up too high. I have heard of dogs who seize at higher numbers like 40-50. Just like everything else, it seems to be an individual thing. Some dogs never show signs like mine does too.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Hi Dawn,

This chart may help with some guidelines. Every dog is different, but it is nice to see what may be acceptable overall.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Bl...gar_guidelines

Barb

[BogiesMom]

?? About Decreaing Levemir

Thank you Barb, Jessie Girl and Amydunn19,

I do have a question regarding the Levemir insulin... Bogies fasting BG last night was 166 (which was good) I then checked him last night at 11pm and he was at 115 this morning his fasting BG was 100.

As I said earlier my old vet said no insulin if I was under 150 so I gave Bogie 1/2 a dog biscuit and then fed him his Zeal adding in about 2 tablespoons of Barley. He had gotten 1 tablespoon last night. I then checked his BG about 25 min later and he was up to 160 so I then gave him his insulin.

Ok, I feel like a total newbie again Since Bogie takes Levemir which we all know is 4 times more powerful than regular insulin I am wondering how I should decrease his insulin? Should I do it in 1/4 units like I did when I was increasing it or should I do it is 1/2 units and how long should I wait in between to adjust if necessary?? 3 to 5 days?? Also, it seems as though the insulin starts to really kick in about 4 hours after it is given.

Also, this morning when I saw the BG of 100 should I just have fed him his food and forgone the biscuit. I looked all over town and there was no millet to be found so I ordered it from Amazon (Thank you Barb) and should get it the first part of next week.

Thanks again for your help… My vet isn’t in until tomorrow and I am going to run all of this past her but I wanted your insight as well.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

It seems like you are testing quite a bit, and considering these are not really LOW numbers... actually quite good numbers, I would lower 1/4 of unit. In comparison that is 1 full unit with Novolin.

Keep on testing and lowering if his fasting number is lowering, and he is still dropping after his food.

I do give insulin/food when I see that Abby's numbers are low, but then again she will raise after food... but I still keep a close eye on her. I am home with her ALL day, so I feel ok with doing this.

Hang in there...
Barb

[momofdecker]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

Dawn,
When we adjusted Decker's insulin (levemir) we moved in 1/2u increments. Mostly because both John & I took turns giving shots and moving in 1/4u increments would have left a lot more room for inconsistency with two different people giving shots. For us the levemir was a godsend and worked extremely well with Decker with many varying circumstances from food changes to steroids. We never had any problems making 1/2u adjustments but I also realize the way the insulin worked with Decker has not been standard with many other dogs.

If you are reducing you could always start with a 1/2u reduction and if it turned out to be too much you could gradually change to 1/4u adjustments.

I'm so happy the food change has had such a positive impact on Bogie. Hope the trend continues.

Holli

[momofdecker]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

I think my post crossed with Barbs. If you are comfortable with a 1/4u reduction that would certainly make sense.

What made the levemir so great for Decker was that he had very predictable patterns and trends on it. He went as high as 10u on levemir, prior to his hypothyroidism being diagnosed, and as low as 3.5u while on steroids. Most of the time his dose was 4u to 4.5u depending on his fasting numbers. Ideally you'd like to find one dose that you could hold steady on for Bogie. Decker's varied because his steroid dose alternated.

If Bogie has produced any predictable patterns and trends, maybe you could use them as your guide when reducing? You are doing a great job with him!

[Abby's Mom]

Re: ?? About Decreaing Levemir

Also, this morning when I saw the BG of 100 should I just have fed him his food and forgone the biscuit.

With Bogie trending DOWN after food, I would have done what you did. But you could always give food, and see where he is trending, and if he continues going down...then give biscuit.

You are charting in unknown waters right now, so it is like starting all over. Once you have no lows (ones that you are not comfortable with) then I would hold steady for 3-5 days to see how it goes. You can always tweak your way up again, if needed.

You are doing a great a job.

Barb

[Patty]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

It seems like you are testing quite a bit, and considering these are not really LOW numbers... actually quite good numbers, I would lower 1/4 of unit. In comparison that is 1 full unit with Novolin.

Keep on testing and lowering if his fasting number is lowering, and he is still dropping after his food.

I do give insulin/food when I see that Abby's numbers are low, but then again she will raise after food... but I still keep a close eye on her. I am home with her ALL day, so I feel ok with doing this.

Hang in there...
Barb

I agree with this Dawn. Sounds like things are going well

[BogiesMom]

Suggestions Please

Hi Everyone,

Today Bogies numbers were pretty good until at 4pm.

5am 184
11:45am 123
4:02pm 72 (Gave 2 Dog Biscuits) his dinner is at 5pm.

Last night his fasting BG was 137. I then rechecked before bed which was only roughly 5 hours after his dinner… 10pm 115.

10pm 115 (so I gave one biscuit just to be safe through the night)

5am 184

Then his numbers were as listed above. I have the Levemir down to 3.75 and am waiting for my vet to call to help me decide on a lower dose for the Levemir. If I don’t hear from her before dinner I will lower to 3.5 units.
It seems that the Barley is holding his at noon but he is dropping a couple hours before his dinner. I think he holds steady at night because I give him a biscuit before bed.
Any suggestions at this point… Maybe increase the barley? I give him 1oz now with meals.

Thanks for your help.

[Judi]

Re: Bogie - miniature schnauzer

so close! I'd do what you are planning. love the latest picture!