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Angel Kylie... July 12, 2017

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  • #16
    I think your vet is right about the cushings meds. Also, sometimes, resistance just breaks finally and usually unexpectedly. Hoping you start making progress soon.
    Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

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    • #17
      Re: Diabetes and Cushings

      That is what we saw in the beginning too. What about the insulin dose?
      Jenny: 6/6/2000 - 11/10/2014 She lived with diabetes and cushings for 3 1/2 years. She was one of a kind and we miss her.

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      • #18
        Re: Diabetes and Cushings

        Hi All,

        We may finally have a bit of good news about Kylie!?!

        First, however, the bad news. Last Saturday Kylie's curve was terrible. Her lowest test score was 26.8 mmol/L and her highest was 38.6 mmol/L.

        The good news is that on Monday, Kylie had an other ACTH (Cushings) test. Her post level was 287 (normal is around 250) and it is down from 417 two weeks ago.

        Since Kylie's sugars were so high, the internal medicine specialist was worried that Cushings may have caused some insulin resistance. She recommended that we leave her Cushings meds as is and increase her insulin from 4.5 units to 6.0 units twice a day.

        I was very worried about such a big jump in insulin. Since increasing her dose on Tuesday, I have been doing a few 'random' test samples. She ranged from 18 mmol/L at the highest point (right before eating and her insulin) and most of her scores were between 7 and 9 mmol/L.

        I know it has only been a couple of days - and Kylie is a 13 year old dog - but these are some of the best numbers I have seen since her diabetes diagnosis in January. Our vet want us to wait about a week with the higher dose before doing a complete curve but I am really hopeful!!

        We have an appointment with the ophthalmologist next Friday. If anyone has any advice about cataract surgery, it would be greatly appreciated! I thought i had seen a few threads on this site which were devoted cataract surgery but i couldn't find them tonight. Could someone please point me in the right direction?

        Lastly, I just want to say how terrific this forum is! You guys are really, really great! You provide so much helpful information, guidance and understanding to people when they need it the most. I am so lucky to have found you

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        • #19
          Re: Diabetes and Cushings

          i might have gone one unit but 1.5 was reasonable especially since you test at home

          the numbers sound very good . the only worry is you got there very quick . the cushings does provide resistance but that seems to have been broken . there may have been a delay to that so the need for insulin may need to be reduced

          monitor and see how it goes this appears to be an important time in the regulation process

          good news
          Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
          Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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          • #20
            That is good news. I, too, would keep a close eye now that things went so well so quickly. You may have to adjust insulin if the numbers get too low. But, this is really good!

            I will try to find some threads on cataract surgery or post Maggie's experiences later when I am not on my phone.
            Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......

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            • #21
              Re: Diabetes and Cushings - My Princess Kylie has Passed Away

              Hello All,

              Kylie passed away on July 12 during dental surgery. We are devastated and heartbroken. She had moderate gum disease and our vet recommended that she have her teeth cleaned before the infection worsened. Approximately 20 minutes into the surgery she suffered a massive heart attack and died.

              We are shocked by this news. Kylie was 14, she was diabetic and she had Cushings. However, both diseases were controlled. Her last curves and her last Cushings tests were perfect. She was happy, healthy, playful and active prior to the surgery. As well, she had cataract surgery last August and had no issues with the anesthetic.

              We thought this was dental surgery was routine and never expected that it would kill her. We are shocked and are still trying to understand how this could have happened.

              Kylie's surgery was undertaken by a veterinary dentist recommended by our regular vet. He insisted on using an anesthetist for the surgery and that she have an echocardiogram before the surgery. Her echocardiogram was fine and was cleared for surgery.

              The reason that I am posting is that I think her heart attack may have been caused by her diabetes. The veterinary dentist sent me copies of her surgery records and there is no indication that the dentist or the anesthetist checked her blood sugar before or during her surgery even though there were numerous notes in the dentist's records that she was diabetic.

              My vet says that low blood sugar would have caused a seizure and not a heart attack. She thinks they are unrelated and that sometimes anesthesia deaths 'just happen'.

              What do you guys think? We have ordered an autopsy (we don't have the results yet) but I am told that they are unable to check her blood sugars during an autopsy.

              Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

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              • #22
                Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                This is so sad and upsetting to hear. Especially since things were going so well. We had dental procedures done a couple of times after Jenny became diabetic. I know the vet was a nervous wreck about it and very relieved when she came through ok.

                I hope you get some answers that bring you peace. I always think it is harder when it so unexpected.

                Run free Kylie. You were very very loved. Judi
                Jenny: 6/6/2000 - 11/10/2014 She lived with diabetes and cushings for 3 1/2 years. She was one of a kind and we miss her.

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                • #23
                  Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                  oh my totally unexpected

                  yes blood sugar should have been checked before and during the procedure . i just watched an episode of the amazing doctor pohl where a diabetic cat was having surgery and they checked blood sugar before they started which was a bit low so gave him some glucose

                  did you give less insulin that day ? was he fed ? . i would prefer sugar being higher before a procedure

                  getting down to the nuts and bolts if sugar wasn't low before and there wasn't any evidence of a seizure it probably wasn't low blood sugar . actually a hypoglycemic event is rare from what i have seen on the forum especially for dogs that are regulated

                  the anesthesia was probably the culprit . my mom is 88 years old and could use shoulder surgery but her doctor said she probably would not survive the operation with anesthesia so she gets steroid shots for the pain

                  in hind site at 14 probably should not have gone under anesthesia at her age and having additional challenges adds more strikes . gas may have been a better option but limits your time

                  my opinion i dont think it was low blood sugar it just was an older dog having a reaction to anesthesia . its very sad for you i understand and all the effort you put into getting your baby in good shape and you did a wonderful job

                  your love lived a long life at 14 . i dont think the vet did anything malicious and may have done this procedure 100s of times without a problem

                  glad you posted this information as my jesse is an older gal now and it reaffirms to me not to put her under any procedure that involves anesthesia

                  many times we just dont get all the info we need from the medical professionals . dont know why it was very simple in this case with a dog at 14 .
                  Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                  Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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                  • #24
                    Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                    The only comment I would offer (besides my sincere condolences) is that anesthesia can cause this in any human, and I assume animals.
                    The only connection to diabetes I'd wonder about, is we know diabetes weakens and affects the heart in humans, so anesthesia is potentially more dangerous. Don't know if diabetes affects a dog's heart the same way.
                    Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                      I am so so sorry to hear about Kylie. I know you are devastated.

                      Anesthesia can be tricky, especially with the elderly and any type of complications such as diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.

                      What happened to Kylie is heartbreaking and also an eye opener to complications. ((((Hugs)))) to you and your family.
                      Daisy 12 1/2 y/o 20lb Mini Schnauzer - 115g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin, 8 units Novolin N q12h. Other meds-1/4t d-mannose twice daily, 1 Proviable DC daily, 1 multivitamin, 1/4t ground eggshells each meal, 1200mcg methyl B12 daily, 5mg zyrtec daily

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                      • #26
                        Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                        Thank you for your messages! My mom has a 15 year old diabetic poodle with a grade IV heart murmur. Mya developed a gum infection that caused pancreatitis. Her mouth hurt so much that she stopped eating. My mom thought she had no choice but to proceed with a dental procedure. Mya underwent the same dental procedure that Kylie did. Mya needed 13 teeth removed so they did it in 2 procedures so that she wouldn't be under anesthetic as long. She came out fine. I guess it depends on the dog. If it is life threatening,then you have to take a chance on the anesthetic

                        My vet recommended the dental cleaning because Kylie was regulated and otherwise very healthy. Plus she had been under anesthetic less than a year before for her cataract surgery and she did very well. We were trying to prevent the situation that developed with my mom's dog.

                        I am having such a hard time accepting this. I never thought this would happen and I keep thinking that I made the wrong decision. I just miss her so much.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                          I'm so very sorry for your loss of your beloved Kylie. Anesthesia is a risk, no matter the age, and no guarantees. It's generally the biggest risk of any surgery. Diabetes does affect the heart in dogs as in humans. My vet always cautions me with my dog that they are more prone to heart issues - stroke, heart attack.

                          Hugs to you.
                          Gus - **Angel as of March 7, 2018"
                          10.5 yr mini-schnauzer, diagnosed Sept. 2015, currently 17.5 units Novolin N 2x day; diet W/D, tblsp pumpkin, Advocate PetTester tester/strips & Alpha-Trak2 for alternative (when I question weird BG readings); blind as of March 1, 2016

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                          • #28
                            Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                            I'm so sorry for your loss. The loss of a loved one is never easy and you can never really be emotionally prepared for it.

                            Please don't second guess your decisions. While it is currently debated in the medical world there are many who believe that there is a correlation between gum disease and heart disease. It probably wasn't the dental cleaning that caused the problem. More likely it was some inflammation issues that aggravated the situation.

                            Anesthetic can be a problem (my dog is not a good candidate for it) but given that Kylie's did not have any complications with her other recent surgery I think you were correct to assume that she would be ok with a routine cleaning.
                            Snickers was an 18 year old Skye terrier mix. - Diagnosed 12-1-15. Angel status 4-21-19. She was a once in a lifetime dog that will always be in my heart.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                              So sorry to learn you lost Kylie. You, and yours, have my condolences and Godspeed to Kylie.
                              Last edited by farrwf; 07-23-2017, 03:06 PM.
                              Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Diabetes and Cushings

                                I am truly sorry for your loss...

                                My dog is going in for a teeth cleaning this Friday and I am a nervous wreck after reading what has happened to Kylie.

                                This was so sudden...sending you my condolences and a big hug.
                                Mochi is a 11 year old Pomeranian. Weighing 11-12 lbs
                                Diagnosed with diabetes February 2016
                                Had cataract surgery June 2016.
                                On 5 units of HumilinN

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