Trying to regulate Macy Girl

[Carol & Milo]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

Just want to say Hi and Welcome to you and Macy

You have received a lot of good advice already. I agree with lowering the insulin dosage and keeping her meals the same. Hopefully you won't be seeing those "scary lows" anymore.

If you give her a treat, you might want to try something like a few green beans or maybe a few small bites of chicken breast. Those should not affect her BG too much. I buy the frozen green beans. My husband gives them to Milo straight from the freezer....I run them under warm water for a minute. Milo loves them either way
If I gave Milo a pupperoni his BG would be thru the roof. Every dog is different, so it might not affect Macy

I think it was already mentioned, but you can get Novolin N insulin at Walmart for $25. Its the Walmart brand (ReliOn).

Carol & Milo

[13409whitby]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

UPDATE ON MACY and her frantic Mom. Since reading all the extremely helpful information (and realizing how ignorant I am about all this) I dissected every one of 9 pages of spreadsheet info I have been recording since Dec. OMG! Now I am 99.9% sure of the main problem, thanks to this forum. I have read it before and it did not click "The Race for Balance" under "Food & Diet" Until reading all of your suggestions about KEEPING THE FOOD & INSULIN DOSE THE SAME.
WHAT WAS I THINKING? I never actually "weighed Macy's food". She was getting Wet dog food (W/D) in the a.m. and chicken and rice in the evening. To make a long story short, Macy was getting less food in the a.m with 5 units of insulin and more food in the evening meal with 4 units of insulin. No wonder She is so irregular.
As tempted as I was to start from scratch and lower her insulin to 2 & 2 units, for a few days we decided to start with the diet. Morning & Evening we are mixing the W/D with the Chicken and Rice. Same exact amount morning and night. And doing 4 & 4 units. And keeping an eye on her numbers. So far only 4 meals and 4 doses, but even though the numbers are a lil high (245 to 455), no lows. 2 more days and we will do a full curve.
I also tested her before and after her exercise routine of playing ball for 10 minutes (3 & 1/2 hours after her insulin) and her BG dropped 50 mg/dl. Next time I will do the same test when I think the insulin is not active. It amazes me how much information you all have shared. Thank You All for the advice & encouragement!!!! I wish I could give you all a hug!!!!!!

[Judi]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

I read this as "update on Macy and her fantastic mom" lol

good job detecting. weighing food really helped us too! keep us posted

[k9diabetes]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

Good for you for keeping a journal and doing detective work! This sort of thing has happened to many folks along the way, even after many years of experience.

Will be interesting to see what results you get!

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

Great detective work! If you'd like we can change the title of your thread for you

[13409whitby]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

Great detective work! If you'd like we can change the title of your thread for you

Hi Patty, I am guessing (from your post) it would be appropriate at this point to change the title. However, that is how I have been able to find this thread when needed. I hate to admit it but Diabetes is not the only thing I am a lil ignorant about, and have not really figured out how to navigate this forum and find my particular "thread" (if that is what it is called ) other than the title . So I guess if it needs to be changed, could you change it to "Trying to regulate Macy girl".
I am so grateful for this forum and all of the "angels" here. THANKS!!
Ellen (Macy's Mom)

[13409whitby]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

UPDATE, As with all good plans of course there is a kink. We Planned on the changes to Macy's diet (Equal portions of the same food day and night) as a starting point in trying to regulate her (and I still think it might be the solution) and then do a curve to see what the changes are after a few days.
KINK...So Three days had gone by, we were going to do a curve Sunday (5th day) after having 4 full 24 hour periods go by with the same exact diet and insulin doses of 4 & 4 units. Saturday night Macy would not eat, upset tummy so there goes the plan. Periodic checking (3 BG's a day) had shown her levels to be a lil high, but gratefully no severe lows. So we did not do the curve Sunday.
This morning (Monday) Macy's BG is 545 . Hubby had done the BG, before I woke up at 5 a.m. and fed her and gave her the 4 units as usual. I woke up looked at the readings and PANICKED and gave her 1 more unit (one half hour after her meal). Probably a big mistake So I will check her BG every two hours. Right now it is 342.
On 6/14 her BG was at 581 and I had panicked and we rushed to the VET E.R. So I guess my question today is, at what point is a BG TOO HIGH OR TOO LOW that we should rush to the E.R. ? . I know I tend to PANIC, but really only when I am not sure what to do. This is all getting VERY EXPENSIVE.
God Bless you all for what you are going through or have gone through. Your are definitely all ANGELS.......ELLEN

[amydunn19]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

When she did not eat, did you give any insulin? What were her numbers yesterday?

I would not panic too much at high numbers. If you have some urine testing sticks, you can test for ketones at home. As long as the urine testing sticks don't show ketones, you can just wait for the next shot. Dogs can withstand some pretty high numbers. The problem is the highs and lows she was experiencing earlier. Trying to correct a single high number with a long acting insulin can possibly bring problems later on in the cycle. It is best to endure them and go on. I would test her quite often to make sure she is not having those crazy drops.

The immediate goal should be to get her back on the same food and 4 units. After she has settled from this episode, try to do your curve again.

[amydunn19]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

I changed your title, too. Hope that makes it easier.

[13409whitby]

Re: YIKES! My Pup's blood sugar is 68

When she did not eat, did you give any insulin? What were her numbers yesterday?

I would not panic too much at high numbers. If you have some urine testing sticks, you can test for ketones at home. As long as the urine testing sticks don't show ketones, you can just wait for the next shot. Dogs can withstand some pretty high numbers. The problem is the highs and lows she was experiencing earlier. Trying to correct a single high number with a long acting insulin can possibly bring problems later on in the cycle. It is best to endure them and go on. I would test her quite often to make sure she is not having those crazy drops.

The immediate goal should be to get her back on the same food and 4 units. After she has settled from this episode, try to do your curve again.

Amy, We do not give any insulin if Macy does not eat. Sometimes I try to entice her with a scrambled egg, which she loves, and if she eats it I will dose her according to the amt. (weight) of food she eats. If she doesn't eat, no shot! I was told this could be dangerous.

As far as the urine strips, I will get some today. The urine strips I have are just for glucose, not ketones.
???What if they do show ketones????

For the past 4 days we have been testing Macy 3 times a day, every morning before her meal & shot, mid afternoon to see if there is a significant drop, and evening at dinner time. For 3 days her levels were ranging 297 to 455 at what I think is the end of her cycle (12hrs. after her insulin) But this morning was 545 (probably has to do with the missed meal and insulin Sat. night.

But today I am testing every 2 hours, since I gave her that extra insulin. We have been on the same "trial" regimen of same food same insulin dose since Wed. night (with the exception of No food or insulin Sat. eve.).

[amydunn19]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

If ketones are present, then she needs to be seen by the vet. Now, if it says "trace", you might can get those flushed out before it becomes a problem. Try to entice her to drink.

I am thinking that her numbers have gone higher because of combining the food. Mixing the wd with the chicken and rice is probably a little more carby than she might need. I would probably cut out the rice and just do the chicken and wd. Would she eat this reliably?

If you want to still use the rice, then you may just need to adjust the dose. It is kind of an either/or option. If she likes the rice and it causes her to eat well, then you may want to keep it. But, you need a curve to base that upon(like you were trying to do) before you can be sure.

You might try to do one tomorrow if no more craziness goes on.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

I wouldn't have gone to the ER vet for a spike in blood sugar that likely was the result of having no insulin.

And in general I wouldn't rush to the ER because of a spike in blood sugar unless it was much much higher... 700s, maybe even 800s.

Dogs are much more tolerant of high blood sugar than human diabetics. They can have long healthy happy lives even if their blood sugar never gets below 200. And they can manage fairly long periods of significantly higher blood sugar.

The other thing with any spike is often there is no need to correct it. I don't start correcting high blood sugar until it's a pattern. Isolated spikes just come with the territory and often the blood sugar will correct itself with no intervention at all. In Macy's case, she had no insulin so it made sense that her blood sugar was higher than normal.

Certainly testing her for ketones is a good idea. In my experience, over ten years on forums for people caring for diabetic dogs, I've found that ketones are not all that common unless a dog's blood sugar has been really high all day every day for a while. Some dogs are quick to throw ketones, but most are not.

Anything more than mildly positive for ketones does mean a trip to the vet for care. Mild ketones would tell me that more needs to be done to improve the blood sugar regulation.

Natalie

[13409whitby]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

Just an update and of course a QUESTION. It has been 4 weeks since we last posted and I wish I had good news, but we are still struggling with regulating Macy. We have tried 3 diet changes to address her tummy issues, tried giving her Pepcid on a regular basis, changed veterinarians, (This facility has 4 vet’s that have diabetic patients, we have seen three of the four, and we are seeing the head Hancho this coming Tues.) Macy had a full CBC, Urin test and Thyroid test. No signs of Cushings or hints to any other disorder that would effect her tummy issues.

Today I read older posts about the differences between Humulin N and Novolin. Just want to say, I believe part of our problem may have been the Humulin N. We were struggling with dosages because every once in awhile Macy's BG would go really low (down to the 70's and had actually gone as low as 47). And we were terrified of raising the insulin thinking she could go into Hypo-glycemic shock in the middle of the night. Recently (7/11/14) we did switch over to Novolin N with the Vet's approval (prior to even reading the posts) just simply because of the cost ($98.00 and was told not to keep the insulin for more than 31 days), and so far so good, NO NOSE DIVES or serious lows in 12 days. However Macy's BG is still running high, and she is still having tummy issues. We started the Novolin on 5 and 5 units, which is what she was on with the Humulin, and have been increasing it by 1/2 unit every few days. Today we will be starting (re: the vet.) 7 and 7 units because her numbers are running high 300's and mid 400’s (and with few 200's) and even has gone up to high 500's. We have done a few Ketone tests and they are now showing “Small”. I know there is an underlying problem with her, since she has (too many times) had upset tummies and would not eat, and we did not give her any insulin. Impossible to regulate when the injections are irregular. We are giving it a few more days, and trying to figure out if it has anything to do with the insulin before resorting to hospitalization, which we will more than likely have to put on a credit card ☹ (Blue Pearl a Specialty and Emergency Hospital).

So my question is this, has anyone experienced their pet having upset tummies due to highs or lows in their BG's?

Today we tried a new technique since she did not want to eat again with her A.M. BG at 472. (The vet had suggested giving her half her dose even if she didn’t eat when BG was that high). That scared me so we tried this. We got her to eat one or two bites (she was very reluctant) and gave her 2 units of the Novolin, an hour after her dose I took her BG again and it was at 315, so I put some more food down and she ate about 2 1/2 ounces (usual meal is 6 ounces) so I gave her another 2 units, waited two hours and her bg is now 260. I am happy with that until dinner time, but keeping an eye to see if it goes up or down.

PLEASE! Any comments are welcome!!!! Thank You all again for being here!!! Macy’s Mom

[momofdecker]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

Only one quick thought - has she been tested for pancreatitis? Any signs of her having gassy bouts to go with the grumbley tummy? Any signs of abdominal pain? Do you notice her eating grass at all?


It seems most dogs will present with obvious symptoms and possible clues will show up on a CBC, but short of having an SPEC cPL blood test done I'd be hesitant to rule it out. A low fat diet, pain meds and possible antibiotics would be treatment for pancreatitis.

Here is a link with more info about pancreatitis. There are three tabs, each has different info - diagnosis, treatment, and related documentation:
https://www.idexx.com/smallanimal/ed...is-canine.html

[13409whitby]

Re: Trying to regulate Macy Girl

Just an update and of course a QUESTION. It has been 4 weeks since we last posted and I wish I had good news, but we are still struggling with regulating Macy. We have tried 3 diet changes to address her tummy issues, tried giving her Pepcid on a regular basis, changed veterinarians, (This facility has 4 vet’s that have diabetic patients, we have seen three of the four, and we are seeing the head Hancho this coming Tues.) Macy had a full CBC, Urin test and Thyroid test. No signs of Cushings or hints to any other disorder that would effect her tummy issues.

Today I read older posts about the differences between Humulin N and Novolin. Just want to say, I believe part of our problem may have been the Humulin N. We were struggling with dosages because every once in awhile Macy's BG would go really low (down to the 70's and had actually gone as low as 47). And we were terrified of raising the insulin thinking she could go into Hypo-glycemic shock in the middle of the night. Recently (7/11/14) we did switch over to Novolin N with the Vet's approval (prior to even reading the posts) just simply because of the cost ($98.00 and was told not to keep the insulin for more than 31 days), and so far so good, NO NOSE DIVES or serious lows in 12 days. However Macy's BG is still running high, and she is still having tummy issues. We started the Novolin on 5 and 5 units, which is what she was on with the Humulin, and have been increasing it by 1/2 unit every few days. Today we will be starting (re: the vet.) 7 and 7 units because her numbers are running high 300's and mid 400’s (and with few 200's) and even has gone up to high 500's. We have done a few Ketone tests and they are now showing “Small”. I know there is an underlying problem with her, since she has (too many times) had upset tummies and would not eat, and we did not give her any insulin. Impossible to regulate when the injections are irregular. We are giving it a few more days, and trying to figure out if it has anything to do with the insulin before resorting to hospitalization, which we will more than likely have to put on a credit card ☹ (Blue Pearl a Specialty and Emergency Hospital).

So my question is this, has anyone experienced their pet having upset tummies due to highs or lows in their BG's?

Today we tried a new technique since she did not want to eat again with her A.M. BG at 472. (The vet had suggested giving her half her dose even if she didn’t eat when BG was that high). That scared me so we tried this. We got her to eat one or two bites (she was very reluctant) and gave her 2 units of the Novolin, an hour after her dose I took her BG again and it was at 315, so I put some more food down and she ate about 2 1/2 ounces (usual meal is 6 ounces) so I gave her another 2 units, waited two hours and her bg is now 260. I am happy with that until dinner time, but keeping an eye to see if it goes up or down.

PLEASE! Any comments are welcome!!!! Thank You all again for being here!!! Macy’s Mom

Only one quick thought - has she been tested for pancreatitis? Any signs of her having gassy bouts to go with the grumbley tummy? Any signs of abdominal pain? Do you notice her eating grass at all?


It seems most dogs will present with obvious symptoms and possible clues will show up on a CBC, but short of having an SPEC cPL blood test done I'd be hesitant to rule it out. A low fat diet, pain meds and possible antibiotics would be treatment for pancreatitis.

Here is a link with more info about pancreatitis. There are three tabs, each has different info - diagnosis, treatment, and related documentation:
https://www.idexx.com/smallanimal/ed...is-canine.html

Yes, tested(full CBC, Urin test and Thyroid test), but apparently (per a new Vet) pancreatitis only shows up when there is an actual flare up. And Yes, most of the time there are gassy bouts, and a grumbly tummy. I guess we need to look at the diet again. She presently is getting i/d, chicken breast, and brown rice. And I really don't like the i/d because I can actually see the fat when I open the can. But is is supposed to be for gastrointestinal disorders.

Thanks for the links, I will definitely be checking that out. If diet and antibiotics are an option we will be trying that. The pity of it all is, even though these veterinarians treat diabetic animals, none of them specialize and if there is anything out of the ordinary they are as lost as I am. Thanks!!!!