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Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

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  • #1

    Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

    Hi,
    My dog Lucy was diagnosed last Tuesday and it seems like she has steadily declined in such a short time. This all started (or I noticed it) when she was on Temaril for a cough. She had been on it for a week when I started to notice what I thought were side effects.. drinking a lot, peeing a lot, lethargic, muscle weakness, peed twice in her sleep. I tapered her off because I was afraid of just quitting cold turkey but she was on two weeks in total. Then I waited a week thinking the side effects would wear off once it was out of her system. Well they didn’t wear off, they got worse so we went back to the vet. I don’t know if the Temaril just aggravated a diabetic condition that was already there to the point that I finally noticed or if they actually were the fire starter. The vet says it was such a low dose and she was on it for such a short period of time that it couldn’t have caused the diabetes this quickly.
    She’s about 60 lbs (was 64 before she started on the Temaril and went down to 60)... he started her at 12 units Novolin 70/30. She seems to be doing a little better... good and bad days... but on Tuesday she woke up and cataracts had started to form. Brought her in and he upped her dose to 16. He tested her in the office on Tues (abt 2.5 hrs after breakfast/insulin) and I think she was 360. He never did a curve because he said they’re unreliable in office and that I should do it at home. So it finally arrived yesterday and I did a curve this morning and these are the terrifying #s so far (he wanted it every 30 mins for first 6 hrs). I’m going to keep testing every hour til PM feeding/dose... and then I’ll run out of strips til more come tmw.
    (Also, She’s sleeping a lot and he advised against taking her on walks because she’s having trouble with hind legs)

    6:30a wakes up and it’s 605!
    She eats grain free Fromms with some chicken mixed in so she’ll eat it all
    6:55a (immediately after eating/insulin) 624
    7:55a 597
    8:25a 462
    8:57a 439
    9:28a 415
    9:58a 427
    10:29a 486
    10:59a 456
    11:30a 472
    12n 477
    12:30 498
    1:01 606! (I gave her a tiny homemade chicken jerky at 12:44... I made it myself and it’s literally just dried chicken)
    1:30 534
    2:35 578

    It’s so high ... never below 400... and at the same time so up and down. I texted him the results and he wants me to increase to 20 (she’s been getting 16 since Tuesday PM). I randomly tested her last night when the meter arrived just to make sure I had the hang of it for today and she was at 546 at 5:45 (which would have been 11 hrs after her AM dose).
    It all feels scary and like such random guesswork as to dosing. It seems like she’s getting worse by the day. I would appreciate any thoughts, help, advice.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

    hi and welcome

    its very possible your dogs medication could have tipped her to being diabetic . it is believed giving steroids in dogs has the potential for causing diabetes

    cataracts are one of the sided affects with diabetes in dogs and blindness is the result but most dogs dont have difficulty with this as smell is there primary sense ears are probably next and site last . some do get cataract surgery

    regulation is a slow process slowly raising the dose to higher sugar . moving to fast can slow down the regulation process and puts a dog at risk to low blood sugar .

    the 70/30 is unusual as a first choice for a new diabetic as most either use NPH or vetsulin
    Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
    Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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    • #3
      Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

      Originally posted by Lolo View Post
      Hi,
      My dog Lucy was diagnosed last Tuesday and it seems like she has steadily declined in such a short time. (Also, She’s sleeping a lot and he advised against taking her on walks because she’s having trouble with hind legs).

      Hello and welcome. It's likely the weakness in the legs is diabetic neuropathy and will pass when the blood / glucose goes down.
      Last edited by farrwf; 02-09-2018, 08:36 AM.
      Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

        The Novolin 70/30 is unusual, as in he doesn’t know what he’s doing and you should get another vet? It seems like she’s getting bad really fast. Is it concerning that he wants to increase her does to 20 this quickly? She was on 12 units for 7.5 days, 16 units for 2 days (since Tues PM) and now it will go up to 20 units... in about 10 minutes when she’s due for her dose.

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        • #5
          Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

          Originally posted by Lolo View Post
          The Novolin 70/30 is unusual, as in he doesn’t know what he’s doing and you should get another vet? It seems like she’s getting bad really fast. Is it concerning that he wants to increase her does to 20 this quickly? She was on 12 units for 7.5 days, 16 units for 2 days (since Tues PM) and now it will go up to 20 units... in about 10 minutes when she’s due for her dose.
          Although the Novolin 70/30 isn’t usually the starting insulin, a few of us have used it. I had my Annie on 70/30 for several months, but spent more time mixing Novolin-N and Novolin-R. In Annie’s case it was 7 units N and 2 units of R. I preferred the two separate vials of insulin, but never had any real problems with the 70/30.

          Yes, we would like more like 7 days on a dosage, but the vet is probably thinking your pup’s blood glucose is so high, the dog can handle the quicker increase. Every dog / situation is different, but 20 units for a 60 pounder isn’t all that concerning to me (then again, I was just a parent of a diabetic dog). My 18 pound dog spent most of her time on 7 - 9 units: again, every dog is different.

          Craig
          Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

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          • #6
            Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

            Thanks everyone! It’s scary and I appreciate the advice. It all feels like such imprecise guesswork but I guess that’s the way it is?
            I actually called the vet and he said to take it up to 17. He’ll loan me one if his glucose meters in a few days and I’ll test with that just to make sure mine isn’t off. It seems odd that her numbers have gotten so elevetated since she’s been on insulin. You’d think they would come down not go the other way.
            Her last reading an hour before eating/insulin was 690 which I know is dangerously high.

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            • #7
              Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

              Hi and welcome to you and Lucy.

              What is her age and breed? Has the vet done any additional blood work yet? There are several concurrent conditions like hypothyroidism and infections that can have an effect on insulin.

              It’s good that you are home testing. That will help a lot.
              Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
              Diabetes: Aug 2013
              Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
              Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

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              • #8
                Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                She’s 11.5 and a complete mystery mix. I did dna testing years ago and it was a mess of tiny percentages including some terrier, Alaskan malamute and chow among them.
                He hasn’t done any additional blood testing. I’m wondering if I shouldn’t switch vets. I’ve gone to him since she was a puppy, but he just doesn’t seem very proactive in terms of testing. She does have a history of valley fever (we live in AZ and it’s not uncommon here). She’s had it twice (diffuse and then respiratory) and was on fluconazol for awhile. It’s been a few years since she had it bad but it never totally goes away. He tested her last month to make sure it hadn’t flared up again.

                The only thing that seems to bring her levels down is right after she’s active. I’m wondering if that’s not why she tests lower when she’s in his office. Because I’ve gotten her up and out and moving around to get her there.

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                • #9
                  Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                  Exercise usually lowers blood glucose. You might want to try a test by testing before, and then soon after exercise.

                  It seems excitement can affect dogs by either raising, or lowering their BGs. That’s why home testing can be better than taking them to the vet clinic.

                  Unfortunately, what happens in one dog might not be the same in another. Heck, what I think would happen to my Annie sometimes would be the opposite!😏.

                  Craig
                  Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                    The exercise issue is kind of dicey though. She definitely has some neuropathy in her hind legs. Just today I gave her a new toy and she was running around a bit playing with it and her back leg kind of collapsed. I asked the vet if I should take her on short walks to try to get her numbers down and he said no walks. He did suggest we may want to add b12 for the leg weakness but hasn’t gotten back to me with a dosage yet.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                      He did suggest we may want to add b12 for the leg weakness but hasn’t gotten back to me with a dosage yet.
                      B12 is good but the Methyl B-12 (GNC has with no additives that are harmful to our pups) is what is recommended for the neuropathy at 67mcg per pound. I've heard some wonderful results with Methyl B12 from several people. Just make sure there's no harmful ingredients (some have xylitol which is deadly to dogs).
                      Daisy 12 1/2 y/o 20lb Mini Schnauzer - 115g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin, 8 units Novolin N q12h. Other meds-1/4t d-mannose twice daily, 1 Proviable DC daily, 1 multivitamin, 1/4t ground eggshells each meal, 1200mcg methyl B12 daily, 5mg zyrtec daily

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                      • #12
                        Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                        I took Lucy to the vet this morning to have a few hard bumps on her skin checked that cropped up on Wed and it turns out there’s a bit of an infection/bacteria. He said it’s not uncommon when their sugar is high and we’re obviously still trying to get it under control. He gave me an antibiotic. Unfortunately I’ve always relied on pill pockets to get Lucy to take pills and they have corn syrup so that’s now def no. I’m trying to make my own pill packet using partially frozen canned pumpkin (NOT pie filling). Anyone see any problems with giving her pumpkin? Would a natural peanut butter be better?
                        He also gave her a b12 injection and said it should last her about 2 weeks and then I’ll either do another injection at home or bring her in for one. He said it will absorb better than pills.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                          Canned pumpkin, like Libby’s 100% pure pumpkin, is good for our diabetic pups.

                          I give Lily a heaping tablespoonful with each meal. The additional fiber helps flatten out her BG numbers.

                          The pumpkin should work well for giving pills.
                          Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
                          Diabetes: Aug 2013
                          Went peacefully to heaven on 04-24-2021
                          Video in Lily’s memory: https://www.facebook.com/10000201631...3260300417807/

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                            We used Pill Pockets. Depending on the size of the pill, I’d break apart the Pill Pocket into a piece small enough to just surround the pill. So little “sugar” I don’t think they affected Annie.

                            Other times, I’d use a tiny piece of turkey / chicken / other meat to push pills into. Sometimes, I’d just put the pill in her regular meal and she would gobble it down with the food (watch the area around her food dish to make sure she didn’t spit it out!)

                            Craig
                            Last edited by CraigM; 02-10-2018, 11:15 AM.
                            Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

                              Sharp Cheddar Cheese
                              Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dad’s loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

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