Is my vet taking advantage of me??

[acer]

Few days ago my 16 year old chihuahua was diagnosed with diabetes at close to 700 mg/dL. While he was hospitalized, I did some research on the internet trying to gather info on what food I must feed him. Consensus seems to be to avoid foods containing corn, wheat, soy and potato. So I spend a lot of money buying the healthier wet and dry food with varying brands.

But my vet insists that I must only use the food they carry/sell which is the Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets as no other brands are good enough. They are very pricey as one can is $2.50 and a 6LB bag of dry food is $40. The dry food contains corn, wheat and soy.

And when I asked if I can test my dog's glucose levels at home, I was told NO it was not possible and I would need to visit them regularly. Yet when I checked Amazon, there is indeed a glucose meter for dogs selling for $17 with test strips at $30.

So do you think my vet is lying to me so they can make more money off me? They've already charged me over $1,000 which seems excessive.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Most likely your vet is not trying to take advantage of you since the advice you've been given is pretty typical. Most vets would say the same thing.

However, all of them are behind the times when giving this advice. Absolutely you can test your dog's blood sugar at home, either with a human meter or one designed or pets.

In terms of food, the prescription diets can be very effective - I've been following diabetic dogs for 14 years now and I've seen hundreds of dogs not only survive but thrive on the prescription diets.

Dogs are akin to Type 1 diabetics and much of the advice about corn, carbs, etc. with diabetes is aimed more towards Type 2 diabetics. In fact, because many dogs absorb the injected insulin relatively quickly, they often NEED some carbs in their diet to provide sugar to go along with it.

Very little is really known about what foods are best - for humans or for dogs, let alone diabetic dogs... and my experience over all these years tells me there is no problem with feeding the prescription diet as long as your dog doesn't have any allergies to the ingredients (true with any food). The best food is the one that works best with your dog's insulin.

Diabetic dogs also can eat many other types of foods - and many of the dogs here do not eat the prescription diet. Ours started on the prescription diet and later ate premium canned foods (but not grain free) and later ate premium canned mixed with cottage cheese. With the insulin he wound up using, he needed some pretty quickly digested food.

If your vet is unwilling to include you as a partner in your dog's treatment, you may want to look for a vet who is willing. The vet can't stop you from testing his blood sugar and you can use the information for yourself and perhaps convert him to home testing with your results.

You can see videos of people testing their dogs' blood sugar at the main website at http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.htm.

And there is quite a bit of general information and links to other sources on the main website as well: www.k9diabetes.com/forum

Natalie

[jesse girl]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Hi and welcome

Diabetic prescription foods do seem to work with injected insulin that dogs use

the corn and the things you dont like seem to be ingredients thats work well with injected insulin . Carbs like this and potatoes you would think would be a problem but not in a dogs case as insulin may need to be fed by some highly digestible carbs to match a dogs metabolism that can use insulin faster than humans

Now i dont know if the food you will be getting from your vet is made for diabetics . We also know that low in fat diets is also important to keep pancreatitis away . This is a life threatening condition that can be a complication of diabetes .

As far as testing blood sugar at home is hog wash Doctors would not tell human diabetics not to test blood sugar at home . Now they have pet meters but many of us use human one also . I have used a human one on jesse for 8 years

I think with your vet is more about control than money but definitely its more profitable . i dont think its better for regulation in most situations . Now there are some caretakers that try to correct sugar every number they see and panic which can be a problem for regulation and safety

Now many of us use our on foods sometimes another commercial diet , maybe homemade but nothing we can say is defiantly better for the general diabetic community . What works for one dog may not for another

[Judi]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

my vet didn't want me to test at home because 1. he didn't think it would be as accurate as his tests and 2. because he didn't want me to willy nilly change the insulin dose based on 1 reading. Dogs need 5-7 days to adjust to any change and it is really tempting to react to a reading.

After we spent thousands of dollars I just started doing my curves at home and e-mailing him the results. He'd call, we'd discuss his recommendation, and occasionally he would send me a bill for $45 for a phone consult.

As far as the food goes, like Natalie said, the vets have seen success with this and they want you and your dog to succeed. I obsessed over the food for a long time but my Jenny did pretty well on the prescription food for a long time until she just wouldn't eat it any more.

Jenny's doggy eye doctor, who sees a LOT of diabetic dogs, has helped get a lot of diabetic dogs under control when their owners were messing up and she did it with a strict diet of the Purina OM. No treats, no nothing else.

So I think your vet is just being a control freak with good intentions.

I'd have a heart to heart about the money and see if you can meet in the middle

You get better curves doing it at home because the dog's routine is not disrupted.

good luck! Judi

[acer]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Thanks for your responses! Learned quite a lot already. As you can tell I have 0 knowledge when it comes to this matter as none of my previous dogs ever had diabetes before but then none lived as long as this one.

If you don't mind, could you answer a few of my questions as I never got a chance to ask the vet or the vet tech to be exact. She kinda slipped away after I paid the $1000.

1. If I feed my dog at 8AM, then I would need to feed him again at 8PM correct? But what if he gets hungry and starts begging for food at 1PM? Can I feed him or only give him snacks?

2. As suspected, my dog is real picky and is thumbing his nose at the vet recommended dry food. Is it OK if I add some boiled chicken or beef to it so he'd eat it?

3. Can I feed him the non-grain premium food I got him or just stick with vet recommended?

4. If he refuses to eat and tries to skip a meal, do I have to force feed him so I can inject him with insulin? Or can he miss 1 or 2 shots without dying?

5. Can I still feed him duck jerky, chicken jerky and beef jerky? These are his favorite snacks of all time. All made for dogs of course. High in protein is good, isn't it?

6. Is exercise necessary and when should it be done?

7. If I get the glucose meter, when is the best time to check his level and how often?

Thanks for any help!

[jesse girl]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

the key to diabetes is staying consistent . !2 hour schedule , same amount of food and insulin . Even exercise and walks need to be consistent but kept low key initially Try to stay away from treats and meals before the required time . Sometimes the food is not processed well with higher sugar so they may feel hungry all the time .

You can usually give a quarter of the normal dose if no food is given . half if half food is consumed but its helpful to be testing blood sugar when making adjustments like this

now if your dog is struggling to eat this food and you think this will be an ongoing problem you may want to switch to something more appetizing . Many do add some toppers to the food to get there dogs to eat and that does work as along term solution

I am one not to force feed but we do here of many on the floor begging there dogs to eat .

Now once your dog is regulated adequately( maybe 150 to 250 for most of the day ) you maybe able to add some treats but at the beginning you would like to stay consistent to get through the regulation process as soon as you can

[Judi]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Thanks for your responses! Learned quite a lot already. As you can tell I have 0 knowledge when it comes to this matter as none of my previous dogs ever had diabetes before but then none lived as long as this one.

If you don't mind, could you answer a few of my questions as I never got a chance to ask the vet or the vet tech to be exact. She kinda slipped away after I paid the $1000.

1. If I feed my dog at 8AM, then I would need to feed him again at 8PM correct? But what if he gets hungry and starts begging for food at 1PM? Can I feed him or only give him snacks? Feeding only twice every 12 hours is key for most dogs. He should be less hungry after his blood sugar comes down. Sometimes a frozen green bean will appease them. No snacks if you can manage it. Personally I cut up freeze dried liver for my dogs (8 pounds) and had always given them some when I leave the house. I kept my routine and figured the insulin dose would include it

2. As suspected, my dog is real picky and is thumbing his nose at the vet recommended dry food. Is it OK if I add some boiled chicken or beef to it so he'd eat it? Lots of people have resorted to some boiled chicken. Try to be consistent. I followed Craig's recommendation and bought a food scale

3. Can I feed him the non-grain premium food I got him or just stick with vet recommended? My vet said the best food for a diabetic dog is something he will eat. Keep in mind that diabetic dogs are more prone to pancreatitis which can be triggered by fatty foods. But eating is the key

4. If he refuses to eat and tries to skip a meal, do I have to force feed him so I can inject him with insulin? Or can he miss 1 or 2 shots without dying? The general rule of thumb is if they don't eat anything, give him 1/3 to 1/2 of a dose (this is where home testing comes in handy). If he eats a little maybe 1/2. Dogs can handle high blood sugar better than low so maybe go with 1/3 if he won't eat anything

5. Can I still feed him duck jerky, chicken jerky and beef jerky? These are his favorite snacks of all time. All made for dogs of course. High in protein is good, isn't it? Most dogs can handle protein without it affecting their blood sugar. My dog got duck jerky after her shot because she hated her shot. My vet wasn't a fan but like I said earlier, I figured my dog should still be a dog

6. Is exercise necessary and when should it be done? my vet said to just stick with our normal routine while getting regulated (couch potato doggy) Exercise can use up insulin and some dogs do use exercise to help with regulation (also where testing comes in handy) and they maybe need a milk bone or something if too much exercise makes their blood sugar drop. Depending on where they are at the exercise could make the blood sugar go either way so if you are testing, test before and after the exercise so you will know if your dog earned some carbs!

7. If I get the glucose meter, when is the best time to check his level and how often?

At the very least, once I finally started testing I tested before the food and shot. I also started doing my curves at home (every 2 hours for 12 hours) to see how she was doing

Thanks for any help!

this can be very overwhelming at first but it can usually become a routine. My dog had cushings and diabetes and my husband and I were amazed we didn't kill her (this forum helped a lot)

If we can do it, you can do it! hang in there. Judi

[acer]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Thanks again for the quick and informative responses!

He still wouldn't eat so just gave him few ounces of chicken which he devoured. Had no choice since he also has to take liver pill every 12 hrs. Quickly injected him with insulin (is it normal for there to be a bubble on top of the bottle?). Now he's sleeping but breathing heavily and labored? Geez, I hope I didn't kill him on my first shot.

Honestly, I am feeling quite overwhelmed since I didn't know how much work this would entail. The vet tech made it sound like it would be a cakewalk and that he'd live another 4-5 years but I'm thinking she was just thinking about the money. Lost another dog (his sister) a little over a year ago so that wound is still fresh so didn't want to lose him too I guess. I know... selfish.

[acer]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Also he seems to have gone completely blind from the late treatment which I blame myself. He went in the bathroom which he had done a million times before and couldn't find his way out. Started whimpering while walking in to walls. Anyone know if there are treatments to restore his vision or is it permanent? This is so heartbreaking.

[jesse girl]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Most dogs do perfectly fine with not having there sight . It takes some time getting use to but there other senses are excellent to let them know where they are . It may take a bit of time to kick in .

Helping them with commands on what to avoid can help . Lots of info and books out there . Now if your dog is struggling there is cataract surgery which can restore sight . Its expensive and i believe 80 % effective and something you would need to discuss with your vet .

Now this is not your fault. Cataracts are a complication of the disease . A large percentage of dogs do get them and it does come on quick

Its just another reality you have to deal with but for most dogs not a big deal giving a bit of time

[acer]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Thanks for your kind words, jesse girl. But I keep thinking had I immediately taken him to the vet when he first started drinking & going to the bathroom excessively and not when cataract set in, he'd still be able to see.

This morning, I tried feeding him the vet recommended canned food and again he thumbed his nose at it even though I'm sure he's extremely hungry. So ended up feeding him chicken only again. Getting really worried. Should I try the other canned food I got for him or does this require another trip to the vet?

Gave him insulin shot right after but this time he yelped in pain. I don't think I can handle this if he keeps doing that.

[jesse girl]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

Your anxiety is probably affecting his mood . Where are you giving shots ? depending on the dog some places are better than others . I give jesses shots on her back end about 8 inches or more up from the start of her tail on either side of the spine ( stay away from the spine ) . I just pull some loose skin and give her a shot

My thought on food is if you cant get a dog to eat a particular food but will eat something else that maybe telling me the dog doesnt like that particular food

My jesse is on a homemade diet that i came up with and its evolved over her 8 years being diabetic . Her primary meat source is skinless chicken breast

Now i hear allot of people say a homemade diet is just to much work and you cant get the balance needed for good health . Well with jesse i did not see that and she is well over 13 years old .

There are as many commercial diets out there and homemade . The key for diabetics is to jeep the fat content low to keep the pancreas from being inflamed . This is another complication diabetics dogs do see and life threatening

in a few months down the road you will wonder what all your fuss was about as you both settle into this new normal . You will spend less time looking back and what ifs and work more for today and the future .

[acer]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

The vet tech showed me 4 places to give him shots (2 on shoulder and 2 on hip). Said to rotate them.

Called the hospital to ask about feeding him chicken and was told to stop due to "high sugar content." Yet when I checked the nutritional info online for a breast of chicken it says 0g carbs and 0g sugar. I'm beginning to think they're just making stuff up as they go along.....

[jesse girl]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

The vet tech showed me 4 places to give him shots (2 on shoulder and 2 on hip). Said to rotate them.

Called the hospital to ask about feeding him chicken and was told to stop due to "high sugar content." Yet when I checked the nutritional info online for a breast of chicken it says 0g carbs and 0g sugar. I'm beginning to think they're just making stuff up as they go along.....

thats bizarre . If you have other vets in your area you may want to call around to see what there experience is with diabetes . Let them know you plan on testing blood sugar at home as a requirement

More than likely they dont want you to deviate from there program . You will probably need more than just chicken for your pup

[Daisydog10]

Re: Is my vet taking advantage of me??

thats bizarre

That is bizarre. Daisy's main protein is chicken.

If you have other vets in your area you may want to call around to see what there experience is with diabetes . Let them know you plan on testing blood sugar at home as a requirement

I wholeheartedly agree, especially with home testing. Your vet may not be taking advantage, she just may not know how to treat this.

No bubbles......