Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

With her dropping low 4-5 hours in, and going a bit high at 9 hours in, still makes me think you don't need the R fast acting insulin. With straight NPH the 4-5 hour mark would be a bit higher, and more NPH would be left for the later part of the day.

The only problem I see is that’s she’s usually 450-500 at fasting. If there’s no short acting wont her numbers just continue to go up after eating and then intermediate won’t kick in until much later? She could be in 500s for 3-4 or so hrs after eating that way, couldn’t she?

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

The only problem I see is that’s she’s usually 450-500 at fasting. If there’s no short acting wont her numbers just continue to go up after eating and then intermediate won’t kick in until much later? She could be in 500s for 3-4 or so hrs after eating that way, couldn’t she?

Not necessarily. You may see higher fasting numbers initially, but over time and doing a few curves, things should flatten out by going to Novolin N. By eliminating the R, you won’t see such a big drop after insulin. If you still get high fastings you can always look at a diet change or add a small amount of R if she shoots up high after eating. All of these decisions should be made by looking at her BG curves.

The chart below shows that, in humans, Novolin N has a longer duration than Novolin 70/30. Of course, in general, dogs process insulin faster than humans.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Need some advice on diet for tonight.
I started transitioning Lucy’s food to Origen fit and trim on Thursday with a tbs of Nutrisca we as a topper. Following all the rules of 75% old and 25% new (incl topper) for 2-3 days. I’m changing her food now because an allergen panel said she’s allergic to beef and her old food was beef and had potatoes really high up on ingredient list.
To complicate things, the specialist I saw said she also had chronic acid reflux/gerd... which didn’t surprise me after I read all the symptoms. I took her to the vet a few times over the past year about coughing/hacking and spitting up food or throwing up water and it went undiagnosed all this time. They never id’d it as acid reflux. So anyway the specialist told me to give her omneprazole 20mg (Prilosec) 15 mins before each meal. I have a packet from them with it all written out and called them to make sure I got the right thing. Started giving it to her Sat AM.
I think a combo of something about the new food and the omneprazole is not good for her. She’s thrown up twice today and her acid reflux was worse the past few days. I called the specialist’s clinic and they said just to check her glucose to make sure she doesn’t drop too low and I’m making sure she’s drinking water. I boiled some chicken breasts and made some brown rice and I’m going to go this route in the short term of not indefinitely.
My question is the ratio of rice to protein?? Rice/carb is bad for diabetes. The protein (and fat) is bad for acid reflux. What do I do?? And do I add some fiber like green beans in there? The clinic was not very helpful so I figure I’d ask her since you all have experience. I’m definitely stopping the omneprazole because I’m wondering if it was way too high a dose for her and that caused her to throw up today.
Help?!

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Rice is not technically bad for all diabetic dogs . Sometimes carbs like these work with the strength of insulin . Its possible your dog would do just fine with rice . if your worried you could try brown rice

Be careful as you would think its the re flux but you could also be seeing an inflamed pancreas

For me if i see stomach upset i fast jesse for a minimum of 24 hours . Now i dont know how that works with acid re flux maybe needing something to settle the stomach You could give a much smaller meal

The thing is you dont know what is causing the problem . Maybe the change in diet . could be the medication or some other medical condition that has popped up

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I think I’d be afraid to fast her since I’d have to skip her insulin. Maybe two small meals of chicken and brown rice tonight? If she normally gets a cup of food I could do half cup at 6:30p with her insulin and another half cup at 9:30ish?? What do you think? Everything feels like a dangerous experiment these days.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I think I’d be afraid to fast her since I’d have to skip her insulin. Maybe two small meals of chicken and brown rice tonight? If she normally gets a cup of food I could do half cup at 6:30p with her insulin and another half cup at 9:30ish?? What do you think? Everything feels like a dangerous experiment these days.

Well as you know i have been giving jesse one meal a day with a full dose and i give her a reduced dose and a milk bone for the other half of the day . Usually you can give a quarter of the normal dose with no food given or maybe a quarter of food consumed . Definitely better to test blood sugar with this method to see how a dog reacts

If a dog receives half the amount of food usually half can be given .

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Thank you! I’ve got 3.5 hours until her dinner. She’s been drinking water and I gave her a small snack of rice+chicken half hour ago and hasn’t thrown up yet. I guess I’ll just see what the next few hours look like and then if all seems well do half meal and half dose like you said and another half meal at bedtime. And I’ll be sure to test her before I give her her evening meal/dose. Im guessing she may run high overnight because of the rice?

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

Well I ended up taking her to the emergency clinic. She threw up tiny bit of chicken and rice I gave her. I just didn’t want to risk it. She’ll stay there overnight and they’ll hydrate her and run some tests.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

So I know carbs are tricky for diabetes, but I’ve been home cooking for Lucy this week after her ER visit Sunday night. I’m feeding her steel cut oatmeal, boiled chicken breast, green beans and have been adding a tbs of pumpkin the past few days to get her more regular. She’s not spiking up at the 8-9 hour PM mark anymore. I read that steel cut oats can help human diabetics regulate their sugar, so figured it would be good as a bland gentle carb and better than rice.
She’s still pretty high at AM fasting but her PM fast is good. I’m not sure what’s going on. If it’s the oatmeal or just the change from dry food (that gave her acid reflux and had a protein she had a sensitivity/allergy to) to more easily digested fresh chicken, oatmeal and veg. Or maybe just a fluke. I actually decreased her dose 1 unit yesterday because she was dropping a little too low at peak. She’s also getting fewer calories now because I wanted to go easy and not overwhelm her system. I know that is probably the reason I needed to lower the dose, but would it also be the reason it’s lasting longer? Seems like that’s more about the carb/protein/fiber mix than the calories.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

It could be all the those things you suggested . The reduction may have been helpful also

Either way you wont know for sure and you cant know how well this will work until the routine can settle for say 3 weeks . Dont get discouraged if you see some higher numbers . Transition is a slow process for diabetics and they will fall of the wagon from time to time

we have seen some grains do wonders for members in a time of grain free in many dog foods

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

The big hitch is that I know I need to add some multivitamin and other stuff to make sure it has everything she needs. I ordered Nupro supplement and I think I’ll need to add calcium too. Just waiting to intro anything new, even a vitamin, until I know her system is settled.
It’s discouraging reading through so many threads where people think they have it figured out and then out of the blue their pup’s numbers drastically change.

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I don’t know what to do. I have not been able to get Lucy back on regular food since her ER visit a week and a half ago. It wasn’t pancreatitis but just a reaction to food or Prilosec, but she had a case of diarrhea after and too much bacteria in her gut. She’s on day 10 of metronidazole and after seeming like her poops were getting a little better/firmer late last week now they’re back to being really soft and gross and verging on diarrhea. I’ve been feeding her brown basmati rice, chicken and added green beans and some egg whites starting later last week when things seemed to be getting better and I knew she needed fiber and more cals.
Do I have to just suck it up and do white overcooked rice and chicken? I’m so worried what that will do to her glucose levels ... which are already high... but I’m guessing maybe the grown rice is harder to digest. It’s going right through her.

[Judi]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I don't know if you want to add one more thing but some folks on the cushings board use slippery elm powder for this a lot. This summer my non-diabetic dog had diarrhea for a few days and I couldn't get to the vet. So I went to a natural foods store, found the capsules and opened them and put the powder on his food twice a day. He improved pretty quickly, sign me up

no clue how it would affect blood sugar but it sure worked for his upset tummy

[Lolo]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I feel like every new thing I try is a disaster I immediately regret so I am a little afraid to introduce anything new. I just sucked it up and gave her about 50/50 mushy white rice and boiled chicken tonight. No fiber and a slightly smaller portion. A little terrified about what her numbers will be but I have to try to get her system bak to normal so I can get her back on a commercial food with all the needed calories, vitamins and enzymes.

[Raysaint]

Re: Dog diagnosed 1/30... Need advice/help!

I believe pure pumpkin is also good for bowel function.
Just brown rice is a good fiber, but you could add pureed sweet potato or pinto beans or even some oatmeal. They are good fibers and good carbs.
Those are all things I add to my dog's canned food.