My dog is requiring more insulin than normal.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

Cool!

I forgot that you're in the same time zone as me. That's so unusual... I always think people are a couple of hours ahead.

What incredibly wonderful blood sugar today. Makes me smile!

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

Buddy's trip to the Vet.

The Vet agrees with Natalie in regards to the cookies. I brought him the bag so he could read the contents. Fat content was way too high for him (Min25%). He also said he didn't like the fact that the second ingredient was brown rice. So since Buddy is spoiled and needs his treats, I am going back to the WD canned. I was putting them in the microwave but he said to bake them. I haven't a clue for how long.
All his bloodwork came back fine, no infection. He gained 1/2 pound. I am happy because since he was diagnosed this is the first time he didn't have a weight loss. We agreed to up his food to 1 1/2 cups of WD along with the 1/2can of EVO morning and night. He said since I am giving him more food to just up his dosage 1/2 unit and see how that works. He does want to see him to try to get up to 60 pounds...means 7 1/2 more to go. I told him about this forum and how much help I am receiving...even let him know that Natalie called it on the cookies and how when reading some of the other stories, some Vets have no clue and others are right on. He said he feels the licking on the back end is just him being irritated, kinda like us rubbing our hands when they hurt. His anal glands are fine. He said for me to give him an occassional Rimadyl, like 1/2 pill every 5-6 days. Told him I would do another curve over the next 2 weekends and fax him the results. He did say by me doing the curves, it does save them alot of work and me alot of money.

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

Here's a link to a thread at K9Cushing's about baking W/D: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/show...4411#post14411

I think you'll find it helpful.

Alison

PS: Here's a quote from the thread:

He absolutely loves this food baked. Who would have thought? I cut the food in to round thin slices and then quartered them. Baked them at 350 for 25 minutes. They look like bagel chips I had no problem getting his ration of this food into him tonight. He has been mooching for more.

I can bake 1 can per baking sheet. Between boiling the chicken and peeling and cooking the potatoes, and now baking the canned dog food, I am going to be spending a LOT of time in the kitchen.

He's totally worth the effort

[Dog Mom]

Best time to give insulin

I was just wondering when some of you give your insulin. In reading some of the posts it looks like some of you wait a little while. Should I wait 15 minutes or so after Buddy finishes eating? I give it to him immediately after he finishes and there have been times when I have given it to him while he eats. He has never vomited so I guess that is why I don't wait. Wondering if that may be the reason why he peaks and drops so quickly.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

For about 90% of dogs, I'd say immediately after eating is best. Most of the time, the food gets going faster than the insulin starts working so the sooner you can get it in, the better.

When you see a rise in the BG right after eating, that's the food getting digested quickly before the insulin has had a chance to really start working. So delaying insulin would make that post-meal spike even worse.

Buddy's curve does show, actually, a sharp drop after eating and he's on WD... so in his case, delaying 15-30 minutes might be helpful.

Try it and see what happens. You can always go back to right after meals if it isn't any better.

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

EVO getting to be too expensive

I would do anything for my 5 guys but the EVO is just getting to be a little too high for me. It's close to $40.00 for a case and that is only 12 cans. With Buddy eating a can a day that comes out to $100 a month just for the EVO. The WD is close to $40 for a 20 lb bag. Can someone suggest something else I could mix in with his WD that is high in protein and maybe a little cheaper? How about leanest ground beef (7% fat) or ground turkey? And how much should I mix in with each meal? He is on 1 1/2 cups WD morning and night along with 1/2 cup EVO morning and night. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

You can mix in any kind of lean meat. We have used ground beef or turkey before and also whole chicken cooked and then cut into cubes. With hamburger you can buy the leanest version possible and then rinse it with hot water to further remove any excess fat.

We have often used lowfat cottage cheese too.

Figure how many calories of Evo you have been giving and then feed the same number of calories per meal. That's the best way to come close to the same amount of insulin. How much meat you use is really up to you.

Chris for a long time ate Canidae or California Natural canned, lowfat cottage cheese, and chicken in thirds.

Still, the processing of the meat or lack of processing will potentially change the curve. Most likely fresh meat with be digested more slowly than processed dog food.

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

So is it a good thing that the food is digested slower? I know that when he was first diagnosed he was eating lean ground beef, carrots, green beans, bone meal and fat free cottage cheese. His numbers were good but he was still losing weight, hence the change to regular dog food

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

From his last curve, Buddy got a sharp drop in blood sugar right after eating so he doesn't necessarily need slower digestion of his food.

But digestion of food is so dog-specific that it's really impossible to predict what a dog will do with any food.

If his numbers were good on his previous diet, I don't see any reason you can't switch back to that.

Gaining weight is all about enough insulin, which he's getting, and enough calories. Short of them having some other disease that makes it impossible for them to gain weight, it's really just a matter of feeding enough of the food.

So if you switch back to the other diet you should feed him more of it. I'd feed him as much as 25% more quantity of the same proportions, though you might want to go with lowfat cottage cheese rather than fat free. For their skin and general function, they do need some fat in the diet. It may have been so lowfat that there wasn't enough fat in it.

The vet school vets talked about "WD coat" - dry and coarse from eating food so low in fat - and suggested we add some vegetable oil to Chris' WD diet.

Natalie

Or do a mixture of the Evo and the home cooked.

[Dog Mom]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

You mentioned mixing the EVO and home cooked. Do you think the WD and home cooked might be ok? I was just thinking about adding the 7% ground beef and low fat cottage cheese. He doesn't have a problem eating and will eat just about anything I give him for which I am very thankful for. Maybe a cup of WD, 1/3 cup beef and 1/3 cup cottage cheese or more? I know he is on the right track and I just wish financially I could keep him on the EVO. I am almost glad you & the Vet decided the cookies weren't good. Those were the most expensive cookies I have ever purchased.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

LOL - they must have been really nice cookies! We have bought the freeze-dried cheddar cheese treats for Jack. They are delicious... and I speak from having tasted them! But they are expensive too. I could just give him cheese from the fridge just as easily!

I think you can try pretty much whatever you want. The BG tests will tell you whether it's working.

We once tried to get a quick burst of carbs for Chris by giving him kibble and instead we got a late rise in blood sugar. So really the only way to know how something will work is to try it.

What you will have to watch is that first couple of hours where Buddy got a sharp drop in blood sugar in the curve. What you can do is always controlled by the lowest blood sugar as you have to keep that in a safe range.

I will have to go back and look... not sure if you had readings prior to that morning drop. It can be that the new injection gets moving fast while the food lags behind and/or that there was overlap from the previous injection still dropping the blood sugar before the food caught up.

Either way, though, any diet that doesn't give him enough glucose during that first couple of hours won't work for him. So that's the spot I'd watch and of course the curve in general to see if there are any other times that are concerning.

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

$13.00 for a 16oz bag. Anyway, last night I did a quick curve on Buddy and here is what I got. I did it close because I still gave him close to 8 units at 183. I have never given him that much with a BG like that and I became a worrisome Mom

5:36P 183
6:36P 197
7:14PM 164
9:21PM 164
10:51PM 206
6:00AM 93....I only gave him 4U. I went back to 1 1/2 cups WD and 1/3 cup EVO along with 2 treats (Canned WD.) I cut a slice of the WD and then quarter it.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

I meant to mention that Science Diet Lite, which you can buy at pet stores, is very similar to WD. Maybe a tad less fiber but mostly the same ingredients. And it is usually less expensive than WD unless your vet is giving you a really good price.

Natalie

[Dog Mom]

Buddy's latest Curve - Saturday

6:00AM bf feeding 148 1 1/2 CUPS WD 1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 W/D TREATS
6:20AM 7U
8:00AM 87
10:00AM 162
12:00PM 185 1/2 CUP GREEN BEANS 2 W/D TREATS
2:00PM 160
4:00PM 111
6:00PM b4 feeding 79 1 1/2 CUPS WD 1/3 C EVO DUCK 2 W/D TREATS

My concern is how much insulin to give him at his 6PM feeding. 7 will make him drop too low.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Buddy's latest Curve - Thinking about food change

I'm probably late to offer a suggestion. I would cut the dose 1 unit if you will be home with him and 2 units if you have to leave him alone.

1 unit from 7 is a pretty good decrease. After all, his curve is pretty flat so there isn't a huge difference between lowest and highest numbers.

You might want to cut him back to 6.5 units... are you using a human meter? (sorry, can't keep them all straight!)

Natalie