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Old 06-05-2015, 03:17 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

oh my thats a difficult choice and understand your search for an opinion

as you described physical pain is usually the barometer for the decision but looking at a mental component can also be a different form of pain

jesse has been epileptic all her life and we have chosen no medication to interfere with it and actually her symptoms have reduced as she got older . it was difficult to watch her seize and feel so helpless . i discussed with others who said there is no physical pain but i believe there is some psychological pain which is fear based

she does have some anxiety and fear of loud noises . i have have felt jesse may loose the battle sooner on the neurological side over the physical

now i have elected to not perform any major medical intervention if something comes up ( a deal i made with her a long time ago not to put her through that again ) hope i can keep that promise dont know for sure we are only humane

i think for me is jesse must be present mentally still know shes here and the world around her . no major pain . i am kind of a belief of letting nature take its coarse but with limits

alfie has been a hero on the forum at least to me and jesse showing a dog with determination can survive and have a good life absent real consistent regulation so hard to throw in the towel having that kind of desire but there reaches limits what the body can do especially as it gets older

he truly is super dog in every way and what ever your decision it will be the best one for alfie
Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 06-05-2015, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

Originally Posted by k9diabetes View Post
I am very sorry to hear this Allison... If it was me, I would certainly consider the issues like urinating on himself and seeming agitated and not himself as valid reasons to consider letting him go. It's all about quality of life and that covers a lot of ground, much of it emotional.

When Chris started bleeding internally from cancer, he wasn't in pain, just very lethargic and tired. But he also couldn't walk to take himself out to go to the bathroom and that was really traumatic for him.

It was easier for us because we knew he had cancer and wasn't going to get better... but it really was his panic about not being able to take himself out to potty that told us it was time.

It's almost like Alfie doesn't notice to begin with tho. He will pee all over himself then if I don't notice which sometimes I don't as it's not always obvious he will lie there for ages before getting up. He has what I can only equate to a ' diaper rash' on his wee tummy almost constantly. This would b so much easier if I thought physically he was in pain but it's trying to judge if the emotional pain will pass or not. He is not concerned at all by lying in his own pee which makes me think things r bad for him tho?!?
Alfie- 11 1/2yrs. 8kg diagnosed June 2008. Insulin - NPH, Novorapid & Caninsulin - a work in progress! Dx left brain neuro focal lymphoma 4th Dec 2012, still fighting on!.
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

I remember Tami said they made a list of Sydney's 3 things that brought her joy.
As her ability to enjoy those 3 things faded, or went away, they knew it was time.

I kind of went by that when we were deciding for my Jenny. When I remember feisty happy Jenny vs the last week we had her Jenny, I know the time was right. I hope you can find that clarity when you finally decide for your little guy.

To me it is totally quality of life. What you described is not our happy little scamp Alfie. Is his pleasure when you are home worth his misery when you are gone?

The not going outside, I've never heard of that. Jenny didn't want to leave our yard her last weekend but she'd still go out. I suppose he just feels safe at home, right there with you.

big hugs to you and the little dude. Judi
Jenny: 6/6/2000 - 11/10/2014 She lived with diabetes and cushings for 3 1/2 years. She was one of a kind and we miss her.
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

Oh, I hate to hear this about the wee dude. We have been battling this with Maggie lately. The vet is sure she has dementia - she gets lost in the house frequently. She gets so anxious if she can't be with me all the time. I get to take her to work but if she stays behind the counter while I am out putting out stock or helping a customer, she is raising 20 kinds of hell. She pulls down everything she can get her paws on and she starts panting like she is going to hyperventilate. I know it is not physically painful but it is so emotional - it makes me cry that she gets in that state. But, she is still going outside to potty - I think she would be distressed if she started not making it outside IF she was even aware it happened. She is still eating. So, we wait.

I know that long paragraph didn't help you any with your decision and I have to say I am at a loss myself. That scale Natalie posted seems sensible to me and I bookmarked it on my iPad.

I think one thing that gives me peace with whatever comes our way is that Maggie has had an wonderful, long life despite all the ups and downs and ALFIE HAS TOO! Because of you, he has thrived and you can never say that you haven't given your heart and soul for him! Thinking of you and sweet Alfie!
Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 06-06-2015, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

I am sorry to hear that you are having to contemplate this, though 7 years of diabetes management is fantastic!

We recently had to make this decision for our oldest dog, Toby. Like you, I expected that him being in pain would decide it for us but in the end it wasn't. He had dementia and was increasingly not really "with us".

He would sleep all day then spend all evening wandering around, wanting to go out, then come in, then go out etc. He went round in circles sometimes for ages, and he seemed to forget about how to eat and whether he had eaten or not.

For a long time we hand fed him then one day it was clear that he had forgotten how to drink and would stand over the water bowl but not actually drink. For a while I syringed water into his mouth but we worried about not knowing when he was thirsty (or if we were out when he was thirsty) , and also about maybe it going into his lungs.

We had a long chat with the vet and decided that at 14, it was probably the kindest thing to put him to sleep. He was very confused about nearly everything and we were all pretty sure about the timing. Now, two months later, I am still ok with the decision because I think his quality of life had shrunk to be very poor even though he was not actually in pain. He was not really doing any of the things he used to enjoy (except sleeping!) and I think it was worrying for him to be so confused.

Sorry - that probably doesn't really help with your situation but I suppose that is partly because it is such a personal decision. I did have in my mind the thought if "better a week too soon than a day too late" which may be a bit blunt but I think it is worth considering. One of the vet's comments was helpful in that he said that if we hadn't done it that day, he was sure it would have been necessary within a very short time and there seemed no benefit to Toby in prolonging things for just a few days, especially with the very acute drinking problem.
Eddie - Lab x golden retriever. Weighed 63lbs. Ate Canagan. Diagnosed October 2012. 13units of Caninsulin twice a day. Had EPI as well as diabetes. Died 20 June 2017. Loved forever.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

I hate hearing this about Alfie, Allison, ... and can only imagine how stressful it is on you and him.

With Otis, the decision was pretty much made by his severe congestive heart failure on the last day we were together. Based on the assessment made by the vet, there was no other viable option for the little guy. For several months prior to that day, I was constantly pondering "the decision", as his arthritis had become so bad he could barely walk and I had to hold him as he went to the bathroom. Through all that i kept hoping for a miracle. He had several other health problems as well, but the arthritis had moved to the front as he was in pain every time he walked.

Truth be told, I really don't know if I could have made the call in a different set of circumstances.

Hoping and praying God gives you the wisdom and strength to provide the best outcome for Alfie.
Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dadís loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

Last edited by farrwf; 06-06-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:22 AM
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Soaphie & Sydney's Mom Soaphie & Sydney's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

Oh Alfie! There isn't a clear cut answer....as was stated below, we used three quality of life measures and kept track of smiley face days and frown face days. It became quite clear what we needed to do, and we don't regret our decision....it was best for Syd (although we miss her terribly and would do anything for her to be young, sassy and with us)...

Tami & Soaphie, the timex
Soaphie = 15 yr old Border/Berner mix dx 07/08. ~8.25 units a.m./p.m. vetsulin, blind/deaf. Ultra Senior, Vital Beef/Bison, Brown Rice and lots of loving. Soaphie passed on October 29, 2015. Sydney = 14.5 yr old Aussie/Shar Pei mix dx 11/10. NPH-varies w/ predinisone a.m./p.m., blind/deaf. Sydney passed on June 3, 2014.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:44 PM
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parje1 parje1 is offline
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

My heart goes out to you. I just went through the same thing with my own dog named Alfie. I had made a list of the 3 things but with his personality, he pushed through his cancer and continued to eat, walk, and always be by my side. I stressed for days about the quality of life. Everyone said that I would know but, I worried that I wouldn't. Then it changed one day, all within 24 hours. I could see things were getting very hard for him and he no longer had the spark in his eyes. I know cancer is different because my Alfie had pain too.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. It helped me to write down how much of a day, I thought my dog enjoyed.

Hugs to you.

Jen & Mia
Mia spayed Labrador--Diagnosed 1/20/14, passed away 7/9/15 at age 11.5 from complications of Laryngeal Paralysis. Diabetic, GI issues, Laryngeal Paralysis. She was the sweetest dog in the world.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

Oh Allison, my heart goes out to you as I read about little dude Alfie as he has been one of the mascots of K9 and has made us laugh with all his antics.

It is a gut wrenching decision to make and often prompts you to ask yourself the question whether you are being selfish for wanting to keep them around. I am going through the same thing with my girl Cleo and asks myself that question daily.

No matter what decision you make, know in your heart that it will be the right one and that Alfie has known all his life how much he was loved and cherished.

Will be thinking of you and please give the little dude a nice big belly rub

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Old 06-07-2015, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Is it time for Wee dude Alfie???

Dear Allison,

I am so sorry to read that you are facing the most difficult of decisions of being a dog mom. It seems that with my Bazzle dog, I've contemplated that very decisions multiple times since his diagnosis. I've been so worried that I will not recognize or know when he is ready to go, and that I'll prolong his life because I don't want him to leave me, despite any pain or confusion he's in. Bazz has been having some elbow problems lately, and his blood sugar has been elevated, so I finally got the courage to talk to our vet about when to make the decision. I've read 3 books, on pet grieving, and countless articles, but what our vet said has stuck with me.

He said, "In my opinion, if your dog actively wants to participate in life even if he's in pain, then who am I to take that away from them? When they get to the point when they don't want to get up and play or walk or do the things that they love to do, then I believe it's their subtle way of letting us know that they're ready to move on"

Alfie's stories have always brought a smile to my face even on the worst of days. Bazz and I will keep you in our thoughts and prayers. Sending you cyber hugs and puppy kisses,

Audrey & Bazzle
Bazzle - My sweet German Shepherd Chow Chow boy, born approximately 6/7/2002, adopted 8/7/2002, diagnosed with diabetes 12/28/2012, lived happy and healthy on Novilin 70/30 and Hill's Science Diet WD... Continued his journey into the next life on 5/15/2016. I miss you baby boy; you'll stay in my heart forever.
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