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  #1  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:45 PM
tucker's Mom tucker's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

Tucker- mixed beagle type dog
10 years old
diabetic about 1 month
26 pounds down now to 20 pounds
Vetsulin 7 units Am and PM
I have no blood sugar meter

This is my first Post. I have been reading all over the site for hours. My biggest problem is that my dog won't eat the diet the vet is suggesting. I have tried 3 different foods. Today I made a rice, chicken and green bean mixture and he was so happy and ate it all. I am looking for a recipe of what ratio of rice to meat with added green beans and how much should I give AM/PM for a 20 pound dog. Also I see some add oatmeal or potatoes.
A big thank you to any one who can offer some help and support.
Cindee
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2016, 03:48 AM
Joan's Avatar
Joan Joan is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

I have 2 diabetic pugs, both 19-20 lbs, I home cook for both.

Firstly 7 units for a 20 lb dog is pretty high, if you can, I would purchase a meter and see where the blood sugar is at. That is the most important thing you can do to get him regulated and doing well.


per meal based on 2 meals per day, that size dog should have about 150 calories per meal. that being said it varies a lot based on exercise etc. But beagles and pugs are not so very different so that might be a good starting point.

2 tbsp boiled/mashed sweet potato (20 calories)
2 tbsp cooked oatmeal (20 calories)
1 egg white (10 calories)
50 grams baked chicken breast (100 calories)
any veggies that they like , I use mainly carrots and green beans

I like oatmeal much better than rice for the diabetics. On all of mine, they digest the oatmeal considerably slower than the rice, so it helps to moderate the sharp rise they tend to get right after a meal.

To any home cooked meal, you will definitely need to add a few things

Calcium is essential, I give 400mg/day
vitamin supplement

I also give CoQ10, Omega 3, B12, and lutein is good for the eyes

Any food you substitute/add, you can google and find the calories, I find that mostly changing the protein etc as long as you keep the calories the same, doesn't change the insulin requirements too much. However, adding carbs generally does.

When you get a meter, you can adjust the curve easily by adding fiber (metamucil or psyllium), juggling the oatmeal, sweet potato (or rice)

But I would definitely either check the glucose at the vets, or preferably get a meter, and see where you are, as I think the 7 units is high for a newly dx 20 lb dog. Some do need that much, but that is why it is so important to test and then you KNOW.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:04 AM
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farrwf farrwf is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

Hello and welcome to you, Cindee and Tucker.

Just about the most important thing in this equation is that your pup eats so he can get his insulin. Most everything else follows.

If he's balking at the vet recommended foods, move on to something he will eat. I've had 2 diabetic Pugs and found adding a low fat meat to their prescription kibble worked great. I used either diced:
  • crock pot chicken with all the skin / visible fat removed
  • ground chuck
  • pork loin
Any of these are very lean as well as being very low fat, relatively inexpensive, and quite tasty. I rotated thru these to provide some variety.

Congrats on finding the best place on the planet for canine diabetes information, advice & fellowship.

Good luck!
__________________
Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dadís loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

Last edited by farrwf; 07-03-2016 at 10:40 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:49 AM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

just to add to what joan and bill were suggesting as part of jesses homemade diet is raw grounded beefheart and vegetables cooked pinto beans ,yam sweet potato and hard boiled eggs

she also enjoys yeast flakes if i sprinkle that on dirt she would eat it
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Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2016, 11:11 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

Welcome!

Just to give another perspective. I've almost always fed a quality dog food, mostly kibble but recently a mix of dry kibble and can food.

We tried home cooking for several months early in Annie's diabetes, but she didn't seem to be getting regulated. I think the problem was I wasn't able to make every meal identical. The recipe called for cubed potato, but how would I be sure each meal had the same amount of potato, or other ingredients? Other folks are doing fine home cooking, but I think Annie does better on identical meals such as weighed out kibble & can food. I use a food scale for each meal because that, again, seems to be more repeatable than scoops or measuring cups for me.

To be honest, I was having some eating problems last year and I had to "doctor" Annie's food for several months. Sometimes I'd shred a tiny amount of chicken breast into her food. Other times I'd add a teaspoon of baby food to lightly coat her dog kibble. She loves the tiny jars of Chicken And Chicken Broth (Beechnut), or Turkey And Turkey Gravy (Gerber). There is enough in the tiny jar to doctor 4-6 meals.

For the past few months I've mixed can food into the kibble. Adding a splash of warm water and mix together to make something like a thick soup. For portion size, I use slightly less than what the can / bag recommends: half can, half kibble (Annie is 15 years old and pretty inactive). Again, this is just what is working, most times, for us.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:42 PM
tucker's Mom tucker's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

Thank you all for the quick answers. After 5 meals of the home cooked, rice, green beans, chicken and dry food I ran Tucker over to the Vet for a mid day blood sugar. It was 359. I did expect it to be higher that last week's 250 due to the face he is eating more of his food now.
I was looking on the internet for more recipes for diabetic dog foods and found " Ruby's Stewbie" it makes a huge amount and every post is super happy with how the dogs are eating and staying regulated. I would like to know if any one on this site has used it for your dogs.

Thank you,
Cindee, Tucker's Mom
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:48 PM
tucker's Mom tucker's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
I have 2 diabetic pugs, both 19-20 lbs, I home cook for both.

Firstly 7 units for a 20 lb dog is pretty high, if you can, I would purchase a meter and see where the blood sugar is at. That is the most important thing you can do to get him regulated and doing well.


per meal based on 2 meals per day, that size dog should have about 150 calories per meal. that being said it varies a lot based on exercise etc. But beagles and pugs are not so very different so that might be a good starting point.

2 tbsp boiled/mashed sweet potato (20 calories)
2 tbsp cooked oatmeal (20 calories)
1 egg white (10 calories)
50 grams baked chicken breast (100 calories)
any veggies that they like , I use mainly carrots and green beans

I like oatmeal much better than rice for the diabetics. On all of mine, they digest the oatmeal considerably slower than the rice, so it helps to moderate the sharp rise they tend to get right after a meal.

To any home cooked meal, you will definitely need to add a few things

Calcium is essential, I give 400mg/day
vitamin supplement

I also give CoQ10, Omega 3, B12, and lutein is good for the eyes

Any food you substitute/add, you can google and find the calories, I find that mostly changing the protein etc as long as you keep the calories the same, doesn't change the insulin requirements too much. However, adding carbs generally does.

When you get a meter, you can adjust the curve easily by adding fiber (metamucil or psyllium), juggling the oatmeal, sweet potato (or rice)

But I would definitely either check the glucose at the vets, or preferably get a meter, and see where you are, as I think the 7 units is high for a newly dx 20 lb dog. Some do need that much, but that is why it is so important to test and then you KNOW.
Dear Joan,

From the readings I did last night it say a 20 pound dog should have 700 cal/day. So I was shooting for 350/meal. You think I should be doing 1/2 that amount? Where did you find your information?

Thank you,
Cindee

Tucker's Mom
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:17 PM
abdamurph abdamurph is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

You really do not need the dog to be on a special diet or prescription food from the vet. Many of us have kept out dogs on good quality kibble and they have done fine. Murph was on Blue Buffalo and was well regulated and he had no problem with that food. Of course the treats are a different things, cannot really give them many of those and if you do be picky about what you give them and how much.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:57 AM
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Eddie Eddie is offline
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Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

We also do not feed a particular "diabetic" diet. Because of our dog's other digestive and allergy issues, we decided to keep him on his normal kibble and adjust his insulin dose around that.

His numbers are maybe not the greatest but he has done ok on this for nearly four years.

By the way I would be cautious about reading anything into a single number tested at the vet. When we started on this we used to take our dog for a test around lunchtime as the vet thought that his blood sugar would be at its lowest around then. With many dogs it is near its lowest about 5/6 hours after eating but with ours it happens that he is different and it is almost his highest time. If we had continued adjusting his dosage based on that false assumption we could have really overdosed him.

You also can't really compare a single reading from one week to the next. When we deliberately experimented with it, we found that our dog can drop 180 points in an hour of vigorous exercise so something like that (or stress of being at the vet) can account for a huge difference in readings.

Antonia
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Eddie - Lab x golden retriever. Weighed 63lbs. Ate Canagan. Diagnosed October 2012. 13units of Caninsulin twice a day. Had EPI as well as diabetes. Died 20 June 2017. Loved forever.
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2016, 01:03 PM
Joan's Avatar
Joan Joan is offline
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Posts: 524
Default Re: Question about newly diagnosed Tucker

How many calories did you feed your dog before he was dx with diabetes? Even if you did not keep track before, you can figure it out pretty accurately if he was on commercial food. You can find caloric values for almost all dog food online...per cup etc.

If you were feeding 700 calories/day previously, and your dog was a good weight, not gaining or losing, then that is the proper amt for him. If I fed any pug 700 calories per day, they would not be able to move after a few wks. I currently have 11 of them, usually have between 10-14 pugs at a time. But you need to base total calories on YOUR dog, again I would try to calculate an amt based on his history. I thought beagles were similar to pugs, maybe not. If you had say a Jack Russell, then 1000 cal/day may not be enough.

On the insulin, the 7 units to start when you are not yet testing, is a lot. Some do take that much, but esp in the beginning caution should prevail. On regulated dogs, it can vary as much or more than the food intake.
My 2 current diabetic pugs are both 19-20 lbs. One gets 6 units total per day, and the other 12. They get very close to the same diet, except lower fat for the one that is so prone to pancreatitis.
Previous diabetic pugs 18 lbs/8 units/day........16 lbs/10units/day, 22 lbs/14/day.....another that also had EPI was 24 lbs and needed 16/day
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