Mikey no longer doing well on Trilostane

[Wylie's Mom]

Hi Dorothy,

Someone just asked a question about IBD:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=816

I don't know enough about this stuff, but this link discusses many of the issues you mentioned - hope it can help:

http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#ibd

-Susy

[Roxee'sDad]

Hi Dorothy,
Just wanted to check on you and Mickey. Hope he is doing well and gaining some weight. Did you get any feedback from Dr. O?

John (Roxee's Dad)

[4Mikeydog]

Hi John,

Thanks for checking in. I have tried to contact Dr. O over the last 2 weeks and he has been away. I am hoping that he actually answers my email when he returns, but I'm sure he has been inundated with correspondence during his absence. Have any of you had experience in contacting him directly? What is usually his response time. I'm sure I can ask my GP vet to try on my behalf, but I know it may take him some time for him to do so. I am growing increasingly concerned.
Right now, after failing to get MIKEY (sorry..he is not a Mickey) to eat his food with the Purina Pro-biotic, his nutritional specialist switched him to th IAMS Prosorba pro-biotic and he seems to be tolerating it well after 1 week although it has some non fat dry milk in it and Mikey has demonstrated lactose intolerance in the past ...Although early this morning I did hear some gurgling and there were some unkind aromas coming from his side of our bedroom I don't think he has gained any weight yet, but..he hasn't lost any either. Susy...Thanks for the IBD links. Right now Mikey is also still on Metronidizole 50mg BID and Tylosen powder 1/16 tsp BID with food as well for SIBO...
So....now that he is tolerating the pro-biotic, the next step would be introducing melatonin at 3mg 2x per day I asume......I sure was hoping I'd hear this straight from Dr O. however
We actually have not stopped the trilostane because I was hoping to hear if he needs the full 30 day washout vs the 2 week washout and maintanece dose only of Lysodren. I guess I need another consult if I can't get this information from Dr O. himself
I know you have all heard this before.....but I am really petrified about starting Lysodren I will follow all instructions...but my real issue is the fact that Lysodren can be so caustic to the GI tract and my poor little boy has been through so much as far as hi GI tract is concerned. I don't want to risk a downward spiral in his digestive issues..I'm so confused
I'm going to call UTK again today and see if there is another protocol to follow as far as contacting Dr. Oliver.
I'll keep you updated and I won't allow this fear to paralyze me to the point that it interferes in the course of treatment for Mikey. I just want to make the best educated decision that I possibly can. I really appreciate your input and concern!!!

Thanks and best wishes...
Dororthy and Mikey

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Dorothy,

I am glad Mikey seems to be holding his own with the new feed and hope it does the trick for him.

As for Dr O's response time - he usually answers immediately. He has been in the hospital recently, tho, and I am sure he will get back to you as soon as he can. He really is a wonderful man, very devoted to his work and the pups who are Atypical.

If it were me, I would stop the Trilo and start the melatonin (3mg 2X/day) and the lignans now. This will give you a leg up on the wash-out period plus get Mikey off the Trilo, which is probably exacerbating the problems right now, and have a head start on the treatments for Atypical. Adding the Lyso as a maintenance or a load later on won't be a problem with the melatonin and lignans already on board. Also, without the Trilo in his system, he may recover some of his appetite.

Keep your chin up, you are doing a fine job!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Lulusmom]

Hi Dorothy,

Is Mikey strictly eating chicken breast and brown rice right now? I checked out the Iams supplement that Mikey is getting and there's a lot of fat in it. The second ingredient is vegetable oil and while down on the list, coco butter is also listed. Dried skim milk is the fourth ingredient. I know that any of these would give two of my dogs gas and the runs, especially the skim milk.

My 7 y.o. Maltese, Buster, had horrible irritable bowel problems. As I recall, we never went more than 90 days without being at the vet's office with a belly so distended that I thought it was going to explode, horrible gas and chronic diarrhea. There were days when I had to wash his butt at least 20 times. I can't remember the names of meds but he was on two or three, plus a shot of Pepto Bismol.

We adopted Jojo, a rescue, after he was diagnosed with cushing's and for months, I never saw a firm poop come out of that dog. A friend of mine was visiting one day and was raving about how well her dogs were doing since she switched them to a raw diet. At this point, I was dealing with loose poop, allergies with brown faces and paws that should be white, rumbling tummies, burping, lip licking and room clearing gas. I'd tried everything else so I decided to give it a whirl. I went to an upscale pet store and bought my first bag of commercially prepared and nutritionally balanced raw food called Natures Variety. It was frozen and all I had to do is thaw out for 8 to 12 hours in the refrigerator and serve it up. Fortunately all four dogs slurped it up like it like they hadn't eaten in days. I was stunned when two days later, Jojo had firm poop for the first time ever. Buster hasn't had bowel problems since then, no gas whatsoever and we no longer have allergies and no more tear stained faces or brown paws from chewing.

I took three of dogs with me on vacation last week and unfortunately, I didn't have dry ice to keep their food frozen during a 10 hour drive and no stores were open when I got to my destination. It was late so I fed them just a little bit of kibble the first night. Oh my gosh, what a huge mistake. All three had terrible diarrhea so it was boiled chicken breast and rice for the rest of the week. They loved it but they still had runny poop all week. One day back on Primal and all were back to normal.

I'm telling you my story because if you can't get Mikey's condition under control with his current diet and supplements, you may want to try a few days of Natures Variety or Primal raw food diet and see if that helps. It's been a blessing for my dogs.

As I mentioned before, you really do need to go through a 30 day wash out from the Trilostane and have him eating like a pig again before initiating treatment with Lysodren. I personally would not consider Lysodren until Mikey's stomach problems have completely resolved. You are right, it can have huge GI effects but if given with food and a predose of Pepcid A/C, those effects can be minimized if not eliminated entirely.

Glynda

P.S. Dr. O obviously has no computer access right now because he's always responded to me within 24 hours.

[4Mikeydog]

Hi Glynda,

Thanks for the tip about the Nature's Valley Raw diet..I will look for it today on line. Mikey is eating just boiled chicken breast and brown rice right now and could use additional fiber in his diet. I also let him try beef again last week out of desperation. What a mistake!!! I'm losing my mind!!!
Thanks for the input about Dr O. I really want to hear from him!!! You've been very encouraging and knowledgeable..I feel like I'm holding my breath!

with best wishes,
Dorothy and Mikey

[Lulusmom]

Hi Dorothy,

I totally understand the sheer frustration and the aching you feel for Mikey...you just want him to be better. A lot of us have been where you are and know that there is no overnight cure....it's one day at a time, just like we deal with most things in life.

My five dogs are currently on Primal, hormone and antibiotic free, 100% organic chicken. Based on everything I read, I did not bother to transition them slowly to raw. It was the first time I ever switched them cold turkey. I held my breath because I expected them to have the runnies but instead, it's just like I read and the opposite occured. Immediate firmer poop and less of it.

Here are links to store locators for both Natures Variety and Primal.

http://primalpetfoods.ziplocator.com/
http://www.naturesvariety.com/locator

We're lucky on the west coast as Whole Foods Market now carries Primal in their California, Nevada, Washington and Oregon stores.

Glynda

[Roxee'sDad]

Hi Dorothy,
Sorry for the typo. Actually I have a pup named Mickee. I hope Mikey starts to feel better soon. Ageeing with Leslie, I think I would stop the Trilo until Mikey is back up to feeling good enough to eat. The old quote around here is to not give Trilo or Lyso to a sick pup.

I stopped giving Roxee Trilo for a few days when she was not feeling well. Waited until she was eating well and re-started.

Hope and pray that Mikey starts regaining his apetite.
John (Roxee's Dad)

[Roxee'sDad]

Hi Dorothy,

Just checking to see if Mikey is doing okay. Hope all is going well for him (and you).

John (Roxee's Dad)

[4Mikeydog]

Hi John,

Thanks for checking in!! Mikey is doing a little better this weekend for some unexplained reason He is eating very well and seems to be more engaging.
His hair is still coming out continuously..It makes me cry to see him like this but I am grateful that, at least, for now he seems a little happier! I am anxiously awaiting hearing from Dr O. I hope he can answer our e-mail when he gets back. Until then, I feel as I am in a holding pattern and I will try not to make any changes other than the 3mg BID of melatonin which I have added until I can confirm the protocol with him. Our vet has mentioned the melatonin implant as a possibility. Has anyone experienced success with this?

with best wishes,
Dorothy and Mikey