Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum
 

Go Back   Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum > Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog

Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-11-2019, 07:51 AM
YukiesMom's Avatar
YukiesMom YukiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 108
Default VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Hi Everyone,

I contacted Merck this morning and opened a case # because Yukon seems to be getting higher Blood Glucose #'s 3/4 through a bottle of Vetsulin. Once I open the new bottle the numbers go back down.

I am a little concerned because the person that answered the phone and took my information and gave me a case # advised to me that the insulin initially needed to be shaken vigorously and once the bubbles subside I am supposed to use it. All other injections after that the bottle should always be shaken, not rolled.

I specifically asked her several times if that was right and I told her that Yukon has been to two ER Vets and two other Vets and they all told me to roll the insulin, not shake.

She said shaking is correct - has anyone heard of this?
__________________
14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 13.5u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein 1/4 cup and Glycobalance 3/4 cup 2x Day with two teaspoons boiled chicken. Snacks Green Beans. Tylan Powder, Purina Fortiflora, Flax Hull Lignans 25 1x day.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-11-2019, 08:10 AM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,224
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Yes thats what vetsulin requires for their insulin . Why i dont know . They did have a problem with there insulin 9 years ago and was removed off the market . Maybe this is how they handled that and get it back on the shelves . Its not unusual to see a new bottle of insulin not work as well as the older vial for jesse

her recent bottle has seen some higher fastings but usually she will settle into the new vial over time
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:10 AM
Raysaint's Avatar
Raysaint Raysaint is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 752
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

And insulin does slowly lose effectiveness, so as the vial goes down, it may not be as effective and sugar can be a bit higher.

I give my Humulin N vials 6 weeks, then toss it.

http://www.caninsulin.ca/faq-answers-p.asp

The link is the Canadian version {same insulin), the FAQ gives info on prepping, says to invert the vial a few times.

http://www.caninsulin.ca/documents/C...-annotated.pdf

The client sheet above says to shake gently, turning the vial up and down, not shaking like a martini.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

Last edited by Raysaint; 03-11-2019 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-24-2019, 06:16 PM
bichons9's Avatar
bichons9 bichons9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Buffalo, N.Y. via Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 199
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YukiesMom View Post
Hi Everyone,

I contacted Merck this morning and opened a case # because Yukon seems to be getting higher Blood Glucose #'s 3/4 through a bottle of Vetsulin. Once I open the new bottle the numbers go back down.

I am a little concerned because the person that answered the phone and took my information and gave me a case # advised to me that the insulin initially needed to be shaken vigorously and once the bubbles subside I am supposed to use it. All other injections after that the bottle should always be shaken, not rolled.

I specifically asked her several times if that was right and I told her that Yukon has been to two ER Vets and two other Vets and they all told me to roll the insulin, not shake.



She said shaking is correct - has anyone heard of this?
I am the worst on VETSULIN and have merck (vetsulin reps) on phone once a month.. changing variables to get reliable/anticipated results..they have no answers and claim instability was never a problem. I have asked them .."Why of all the insulin suspensions, does VETSULIN need to be shaken.?" WE wondered that if you shake it (example) 30 times for a few times..and then shake it 20 times a few times..do you end up with inaccurate parts of the crystalline vs amorphous portions...We weigh food, check needle gauge, syringe accuracy that can be 1/2 unit off, switched to U-100 conversion due to very small dog, changed feedings to 10-15-20 BEFORE injections to slow the drastic BG plunge, We now shake..settle 10 minutes and roll 10 times. We though the feeding strategy was working but over past 3 days Suzie may have gotten into a bag of closeted cat food, and ate 2 Oravet chews over 2 days that spiked her BG >500 soooo...we'll have to see..may go back to lantus. No sleep for me but it was quite predictable!!! I do not trust Vetsulin..but DVM's offer no advice..I want an FDA approved "human" insulin..Good Luck!!!
SS:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=811447094
__________________
Suzie, 10yo, chihuahua, diagnosed D.M. 8/3/2017started NPH..Lantus..Vetsulin

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=811447094

Last edited by bichons9; 03-27-2019 at 03:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-25-2019, 11:49 AM
YukiesMom's Avatar
YukiesMom YukiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 108
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I am so glad to hear that someone else is getting ahold of the company and asking questions. I have been shaking the vials now every time and his BG is still all over the charts.

3/16 8:20 a.m. 508!
5:30 p.m. 192

3/17 3:15 p.m. 302

3/22 8:30 a.m. 474
4:30 p.m. 229

3/24 3:30 p.m. 269
9:05 p.m. 442 NEW VIAL OPENED

3/25 7:00 a.m. 527!

His is now starting to lose his eyesight and I can't even get him stabilized on the Vetsulin.

My vet won't switch him and I haven't been able to find a different vet that knows what they are doing.

It is so frustrating - and he is such a trooper - I feel like I am letting him down :-(
__________________
14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 13.5u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein 1/4 cup and Glycobalance 3/4 cup 2x Day with two teaspoons boiled chicken. Snacks Green Beans. Tylan Powder, Purina Fortiflora, Flax Hull Lignans 25 1x day.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-26-2019, 05:27 AM
Raysaint's Avatar
Raysaint Raysaint is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 752
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

With his numbers being that high, might he just need a dose increase. That would probably be the natural protocol, and see if numbers start to improve.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-2019, 09:16 AM
YukiesMom's Avatar
YukiesMom YukiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 108
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

I am just starting to question Vetsulin so much. I am reading so much about this shaking and rolling and a lot of people are saying the same thing about the Merck folks - they seem to not be consistent in anything I am being told.

I keep hearing that Lantus is a good insulin.

Any comments? Maybe I should switch him to a human insulin and see if that makes a difference.
__________________
14 yr old, Atypical Cushings, Pancreatitis, Allergies. 13.5u Vetsulin 2x a day. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein 1/4 cup and Glycobalance 3/4 cup 2x Day with two teaspoons boiled chicken. Snacks Green Beans. Tylan Powder, Purina Fortiflora, Flax Hull Lignans 25 1x day.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-26-2019, 10:42 AM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,224
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

NPH has been the go to human insulin for dogs . It has been adequate for my jesse in her 9 years of diabetic . Is it perfect? far from it but it gets the job done . Lantus is not used very much so there isnt a track record to go by . Jesse used it for 3 days and i decided to change direction and go back to NPH so i cant really give an opinion on it . I think there is 4 human insulin's that dogs do use and we must remember they are human . I dont think any insulin on the market for dogs is prefect and most times we have to figure out how to get the best out of them to work with our dogs . I did big changes to jesses routine to get it to work good enough for her.

If you feel you are not adequately regulating your dog a change maybe helpful especially if you see no progress

Most times i feel insulin problems come from dosing problems and the food equation which can be very difficult to figure out and control and sometimes a change can give a reset to a routine
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 14 years old - 9 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 6 and 8 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-26-2019, 01:49 PM
Raysaint's Avatar
Raysaint Raysaint is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 752
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

If you want to get deep into insulin formulations, this article might help.

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...ploads/176.pdf

Vetsulin and human insulin are close in structure. Vetsulin is still made from pig pancreas, human insulins are genetically engineered to mirror our natural insulin.

The whole shaking versus rolling thing, the link I posted from Caninsulin says to turn the bottle upside down and back a few times, kind of a slow shake.
The article above explains why. The crystals in the insulin settle to the bottom and need to get back to being suspended in the vial. So turning the bottle upside down a few times accomplishes that.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:10 PM
bichons9's Avatar
bichons9 bichons9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Buffalo, N.Y. via Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 199
Default Re: VETSULIN - Shaken not Rolled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YukiesMom View Post
I am just starting to question Vetsulin so much. I am reading so much about this shaking and rolling and a lot of people are saying the same thing about the Merck folks - they seem to not be consistent in anything I am being told.

I keep hearing that Lantus is a good insulin.

Any comments? Maybe I should switch him to a human insulin and see if that makes a difference.
See the feeding strategy for past 3 days..It's a better BG but still makes no sense...still considering switching to a human insulin..Lantus or Novolin 70/30...
__________________
Suzie, 10yo, chihuahua, diagnosed D.M. 8/3/2017started NPH..Lantus..Vetsulin

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=811447094
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Disclaimer -- The content on this site is provided for informational and educational purposes only. While we make every effort to present information that is accurate and reliable, the views expressed here are not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by a licensed veterinarian. Please consult with your veterinarian for specific advice concerning the medical condition or treatment of your pet and before administering any medication or pursuing any course of treatment that you may read about on this site.

The views and opinions expressed by contributors to this forum are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of the owners, administrators, or moderators of this forum and the k9diabetes.com website.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009, 2010 k9diabetes.com. All rights reserved.