Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

[Kallie'smom]

Hello to all,

I have never done this before so bear with me. My name is Tammy and my almost 14 year old 9 pound mini dachshund Kallie will be starting treatment on Saturday. (My vet likes to start on Saturdays so it gives an extra day during the week in case it takes a little longer to load.) She has the pituitary tumor. I dont have any of the test results because I did all that before I found this site and didnt think to ask for it. She first had a ACTH Low Dose test, then the ACTH Endogenous test. I guess her tests came out kind of odd so he consulted with the lab to diagnose her. I might be able to get a copy when I pick up her meds. I learned sooooo much from all of you, he seemed surprised that he didnt have to explaiin it all to me. He is even having me just pick up the medicine without a visit, he must have confidence that I know what I am doing. This is making me nervous because he is giving me lysodren (or mitotane) in a gel or liquid form? I haven't picked it up yet, so I don't know the dosing yet. The vet assistant who called me thought it was 1ml. I haven't heard anyone mention this on the forum and wondering if anyone has used this before. I was all studied up on the tablets and then this thru me for a loop.

I did print out the Lysodren loading instructions so I feel fairly comfortable with what to watch for.

Thanks so much,

Tammy and Kallie

[Rusty's Mom]

Tammy and Kallie,

Welcome to the site. Soon you'll be hearing from a few who really understand the disease and symptoms. This is a great support site. You'll be glad you did the posting.

I just put Rusty down 3 weeks ago. I had only started on this site 2 weeks prior to his passing, so I'm not a wealth of info, but I surely wanted to give you some support.

Blessings and best of luck,

MJ

[frijole]

Hi! I'm a lysodren mom and my Haley has been on it for almost 3 yrs now. I've never used the gel/liquid version so I can't help you with that. Glad you have the loading instructions book.

I recommend you start monitoring the water intake now so you can track to see if it is reduced. I also watched my dog eat so I could look for changes. I also logged it daily along with any comments throughout the loading process so I could accurately recall things.

Can you share with us your dogs' weight and the daily dosing amount that is being prescribed? I sure wish you had the test results. Did they do the acth test? That is your baseline/starting point as you work your way to a goal of 1 to 5.

Keep us posted! Good luck - you will be just fine.

Kim

[Lulusmom]

Hi Tammy and welcome to you and Kallie.

I lose my place a lot so in order to make things easier for myself, I've placed my comments in blue into the body of your post. This makes more sense for me and anybody else that get addled easily.

Originally Posted by Kallie'smom

I have never done this before so bear with me. My name is Tammy and my almost 14 year old 9 pound mini dachshund Kallie will be starting treatment on Saturday. (My vet likes to start on Saturdays so it gives an extra day during the week in case it takes a little longer to load.)

Your vet is a wise man. The vast majority of dogs will load in 5 to 8 days so starting on a Saturday or Sunday does give you a bit of insurance that your vet will be in the office when you to get Kallie there.

She has the pituitary tumor. I dont have any of the test results because I did all that before I found this site and didnt think to ask for it. She first had a ACTH Low Dose test, then the ACTH Endogenous test. I guess her tests came out kind of odd so he consulted with the lab to diagnose her. I might be able to get a copy when I pick up her meds.

Please do get copies of all of Kallie's test results and post them here. The more information you can give us, the easier it is to put all the pieces together and provide you with more meaningful feedback.

I learned sooooo much from all of you, he seemed surprised that he didnt have to explaiin it all to me. He is even having me just pick up the medicine without a visit, he must have confidence that I know what I am doing. This is making me nervous because he is giving me lysodren (or mitotane) in a gel or liquid form? I haven't picked it up yet, so I don't know the dosing yet. The vet assistant who called me thought it was 1ml. I haven't heard anyone mention this on the forum and wondering if anyone has used this before. I was all studied up on the tablets and then this thru me for a loop.

I used liquid lysodren the first time I loaded my second cushdog, Jojo. It did the job but it got gunked up near the bottom of the vial. That made me uncomfortable so when it came time for a refill, we switched to a compounded capsule.

I believe the 1ml the vet tech was referring to is a syringe measurement. For instance, Jojo loaded on 100mg twice daily. In his case 1ml (full syringe) was 100mg so he would get .5ml twice a day with meals. Can you verify with your vet as to the actual mg dose?

I did print out the Lysodren loading instructions so I feel fairly comfortable with what to watch for.

Good for you. Those instructions came in real handy for me more than once. When loading with lysodren, prednisone is an absolute necessity so do not start loading without it.

We'll be here to help you in any way we can.


Glynda

P.S. I see that Kim posted well before I did. I'm at work and get interrupted frequently. Sorry for any duplication.

[ventilate]

Hi, I wanted to welcome you as well. Sounds like you did your homework, a couple things I want to mention is first the loading instructions are excellent but what I do want to reinterate is that anything that makes you go "ummmm" and think thats odd could be the sign of loading, it can be very subtle, just a hesitation while eating instead of just going head down butt up and eating, a pause, not grabbing a treat out of your hand but sniffing it first things like that, my dog left a few kibble for her boyfriend and didnt wake me up that night to go out to pee.
As well when you go to pick up the meds, if it not written on the bottle be sure to ask what the concentration is how much lysodren in the 1 cc of liquid. it will not be pure lysodren it will be for example 15 mg in 1 cc we need to know the mg of lysodren as well as the ccs you are giving and the wt of your dog. As well be sure the vet gives you prednisone in case of inadvertant overload you want to have some on hand just in case, you know the old saying if you have it you will not need it.
Good luck and please do post the results when you get them
Sharon

[Kallie'smom]

Thank you for the welcome and words of encouragement.

MJ - Thanks for saying hi and so sorry to hear about Rusty.

Kim - I have 2 other (medium sized dogs) and they all drink out of the same 2water bowls!! I do usually pay attention to how much Kallie is drinking anyway so I will probably be able to tell if she goes to the bowl less or spends less time actually drinking. Sometimes she drinks what seems like a full minute! She gets up every night around midnight for a drink too. The vet is having me give Kallie melatonin, to help her sleep and maybe help grow some hair back? Does anyone know if that is okay to give her? So far I haven't read anything bad about it.

Glynda - I will get the test results this afternoon - I will be picking up the medicine and speaking to the vet. Hopefully I will understand the numbers to be able to post them correctly.

Sharon - Kallie has always coked her food down as fast as she can so hopefully that will be the first thing I notice is her hesitation. She acts like there are 10 dogs behind her trying to get her food!! I even divide her food up (during each meal) and don't give it to her all at once because she cokes on it otherwise. Since the drinking will be harder to monitor I'm hoping the food will be my indicator.

Thank you all so much - I'll post the results as soon as I can and probably compare with other results posted here so I can learn what all the numbers mean.

Tammy

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Tammy,
Although I can't give you much advice, b/c I am a newbie here, I can offer lots of support. But you are at the right place for advice, there are alot of people here with a wealth of knowledge that are willing to share it with you, I know that for a fact b/c they have been doing that for me. Thank God and God Bless Them

Take Care, Harley and Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Tammy! Welcome to you and Kallie!

I'm glad you are here and decided to post. As you can see, we ask lots of questions at first but that's so we can get to know Kallie and her story better, then be able to offer more meaningful feedback. And I have a few more to add.

How much does Kallie weigh? Does she have any other conditions/illnesses? Is she on any other meds, supplements or herbs at the moment? What prompted you to take her to the vet in the first place when Cushing's was initially suspected? Are the drinking and appetite behaviors you see now something new for her? Has she had an ultrasound? Don't you wish we would stop asking questions? I promise not to get too nosy til I get to know you a bit better!

The most important thing you can do for Kallie is to educate yourself on Cushing's. To help you get started, there will be a list of links following this post. Please ask any questions you may have and we will do our best to help you understand. If we don't know the answer, we will work together to find it. We are all here to learn, share and care. There are some really knowledgeable folks here with lots of experience to share. We are also very good hand-holders! My palms have been sweaty more than once with all the love and support from my family here and I'm sure you will find the same to be true for you.

Getting copies of all Kallie's test results to keep in a file at home is a good idea. You never know when you will need to see a different vet and you will have all her info in hand. Plus, you will be able to answer all these questions we throw at you. Another thing some of us do is to keep a journal of our babies day to day doings - water intake, appetite, mood, pee and poop history, meds/supplements and their schedules, anything odd or different we observe, etc. That way you don't have to try to remember when she pooped that weird purple stuff last month! My vet finds Squirt's journal to be very valuable as I can answer just about anything she asks plus it gives a good time line on her progress. They just love seeing me come with all my notebooks and files!

Melatonin is one of the treatments for Atypical Cushing's, which involves intermediate and/or sex hormones with or without elevated cortisol. Flax lignans are also used with the melatonin. This is the treatment protocol my Squirt is on at the moment and doing quite well! Melatonin will help Kallie rest at nite plus it has properties that can lower cortisol as well, so I think your vet was on the mark to recommend it for her. Squirt weighs 14 lbs and she takes 3mg 2X/day. Be sure you get the plain melatonin, not the time released, extended, etc. How much is Kallie supposed to take and how often?

I am just so happy you made it here! I hope you find you feel like family in no time. There just isn't a better bunch of folks than those here! Of course, I'm just a wee bit prejudiced!

Hang in there! You are doing a great job already!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls (Squirt, Ruby, Goldie and Crystal)

the links

Cushing's in general:

Kate Connick*
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

Long Beach Animal Hospital*
http://www.lbah.com/canine/cushings.htm

Drs. Foster and Smith*
http://www.peteducation.com/article....2+2097&aid=416

Newman Veterinary*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushingDiag.html

Cushing’s signs and pics*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushSignFrame.html

BMD Health Library*
http://www.bestbeau.ca/bmd_health_links_4.htm
(scroll down to see Endocrine Diseases)

Mar Vista Animal Medical Center*
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/cushing_s_disease.html

Vetstream*
http://www.vetstreamcanis.com/ACI/Fe...ctSheet052.asp


Atypical Cushing’s*
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...date=&pageID=1

http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=132&t=

[frijole]

Tammi, I can help you with the water situation because many of us, including myself, have more than one critter.

Before you start loading measure all water at the beginning of a day. Then measure it at the end of the day. You'll have the net total. Then you can compare throughout loading.

Since Kallie is an eater that might be an easier way to tell. My Haley was the same way. No breathing or chewing between bites. INHALE. Just pay close attention as sometimes as Sharon said it is a MINOR change that indicates loading. (ex. a slight pause between bites)

We are here to help. Kim

[Kallie'smom]

Kallie's story:

She weighs 9 pounds, up til last year she weighed about 14. 11 or 12 would be an ideal weight for her. Me and my husband want to do before and after treatment pictures. I'll figure out how to post them when we do.

She has always acted like she is starving as far back as I can remember. When my parents dogsit her (she is their grandchild) my mom always commented on how much she drinks. She seemed really healthy so I just thought I'd keep that in mind. Then it just got gradually worse as time went on so I didn't think too much about it. She started to pee alot more (every 2 hours or less). Then she got a UTI. I wanted to get her teeth cleaned but wanted her to get a blood test first to make sure she didnt have kidney disease or something else.. Her teeth are really nasty and thought maybe that was causing symptoms. That all came back good but - the BUN was high (45) and also her blood sugar (157) but not high like she had diabetes. High phosphates too. Second test her phosphates came back down. In the meantime she was also losing hair on her ears. Even after the UTI was cleared up she was peeing it seemed like every hour or less. I had started to do research on her symptoms which led me to Cushings, everything matched up except she was losing weight not 'gaining'. She was loosing so much muscle mass and weight she can't jump up on the stool we had for her to get on the couch. She has every symptom except 'weight gain' and panting. She shakes all the time and her hind legs are really weak. If the other dogs bump into her she falls down. Good thing she is only inches off the ground! She does have back issues but my vet is trained in chiropractic medicine (it works wonders) Not sure if the weak back legs and shaking is Cushings or back related, maybe both. (Hope she doesn't have arthritis - which would show up after cotisol level go down) She seems to have OCD - she licks everything, mostly the floor for 1/2 hour at a time and I can't get her to stop, if I pick her up she just licks my hands. Don't know if that is related to Cushing but it sure would be nice if she stopped that too! She kind of seems in her own little world, not overly excited to see us when we come home, that kind of made me sad. She has started going deaf since last spring, but she seems okay with that. She can hear me if i talk really loud. She seems healthy otherwise. Oh and she takes 3mg per night of melatonin the plain kind. I did buy her some minerals with milk thistle in it. And she also is taking probiotics because she seemed to be pooping all the food i gave her, like she was not absorbing anything. I thought that was why she was losing so much weight. She pooped about every 4 hours. That seems to have slowed down a bit now its 2 or 3 times a day.

Tests done were:

LDD
4 hr cort 12.0
8 hr cort 7.5
baseline 2.3
(Vet said results seemed kind of odd to him) He had them run them twice and same result. (3/16/09)

Endogenous ACTH 11.1
(Vet called the endocronologist because he was kind of stumped)
They said "significant magnitude to indicate pituitary-based disease when hyperadrenocorticism has been confirmed." Univ of Michigan

I picked up the mitosone gel and he showed me how to do it so I feel much better about it. She gets 1ml of the gel which is 200mg. Does that seem right? Got my prednisone!!! But had to ask for it - you've trained me well!!

Did I forget anything??

Tammy