Liza Locket has passed...

[Hilda]

OK, I've taken a deep breath as was suggested, but I am still SSSOOO frightened for my wonderful retriever. Liza is 10.5 years old, 33kg, and has just been diagnosed with diabetes. I have now given her 5 insulin injections over 5 days. After 2 there had been no change in her levels as read by the vet, and she increased the dose from 17 units to 20 units. Does anyone know if the insulin gradually builds up in the system or whether the first injection should have had more effect? I am in the UK, and wonder whether the USA has a different scale for sugar levels. Liza is currently at 22, which seems wrong in relation to some of the readings I have read on stories on this website. The vet is aiming to get her down to below 10.

I have already found some encouragement from reading some of your stories, and I am trying to be really positive, but this is scary.

Any advice would be seriously welcomed. Hilda

[k9diabetes]

Re: Liza Locket

Hi Hilda,

Welcome to you and Liza!

It does take time for the body to settle into an insulin dose and get used to having insulin again. Which is why it's also good to start with a dose that is probably less than will be needed and to work it up slowly, giving each change time to settle in.

Usually, if a dog's blood sugar drops to normal the first few days, then the dose is probably too large.

Having high blood sugar also tends to make the body somewhat unresponsive to the effect of the insulin. That goes away slowly once they start getting insulin again so that is another reason to wait. As the body gets more sensitive, it gets a bigger kick from the same number of units.

You are using a different system - you use mmol/L and the U.S. uses mg/dL.

The conversion factor is 18.2. So if you have a reading of 10, that's 180.2 in U.S. measurements. Ideal - not always obtainable - for your dog's blood sugar eventually will be to stay between 5.5 and 10 or 11.

Dogs are pretty tolerant of high blood sugar and of diabetes in general - better than humans actually. So as long as you do a pretty good job of managing her diabetes, it should not impact her life expectancy or cause any serious health problems. The most common side effect is diabetes-induced cataracts, which are extremely common. But dogs also do well with blindness generally so even if they aren't a candidate for cataract surgery, they can live long healthy happy lives even with cataracts. Our dog was blind four of his five years with diabetes and wasn't a good surgery candidate. He did great - most people didn't know he was blind.

Hang in there - these first few weeks are the hardest and scariest.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Liza Locket

Hi Hilda and Liza Locket - oh, I LOVE that name! I see Natalie has given you a wonderful assist to begin with, and I don't have anything to add to that.

I'm in Canada, where we also use mmol/l instead of mg/dL. I got in the habit of making the conversions on my computer's calculator, and posting both figures at once.

Here;s one of Kumbi's charts:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

You can see I put in both kinds of measurements. I did some of that work with my Poor Woman's Photoshop (Paint Shop Pro).

Kumbi died on 8 June 2010 - NOT of diabetes, but of cancer. He was 13.5, and I found out that a normal life expectancy for Australian Terriers is somewhere around 11 years. He was diagnosed shortly before his tenth birthday. He went blind, but enjoyed his life most thoroughly.

So I think you can have wonderful hopes for Liza Locket. As Natalie said, it takes a few weeks to get used to the idea; get a schedule working, and so forth. Do stick around, keep asking any questions you might have, and you're sure to get a lot of assistance.

Here's a Big, Fat Welcome to you to this magnificent forum!
Mon, 7 May 2012 17:31:32 (PDT)

[CraigM]

Re: Liza Locket

Welcome Hilda & Liza!

As Natalie stated, it's nearly impossible to "regulate" a dog in fast order. It takes time , frequently 5+ days between changes, and then we need to move in what may appear as tiny amounts.

Let me get my calculator out (wish the U.S. would move to mmol/L, metric systen, etc.). 33Kg = 72.75 pounds

A "normal" starting dose here is often 0.2 units per pound, so that would have been about 14.5 or 15 units. Very close to the 17 units you started on! Guessing the increase to 20 units will be fine. Now comes the hard part: letting that dosage settle in for 5-7 days

Are you thinking about testing Liza's blood glucose (BG) at home? It's usually not as difficult as it sounds!

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Liza Locket

You've already gotten great info, so I just wanted to welcome you.

You'll be on your way with the help offered here.

[jenny]

Re: Liza Locket

Hi Hilda and Liza

I am new here too and in the UK! My westie Pippa was diagnosed 3 weeks ago now and it it getting a bit less scary as the days go on, so hang in there and read as much as you can to get to grips with things.

As a newbie I have little real advice to offer, but i would try and get both you and Liza into a set routine if possible. I am now weighing my pippas food out and sticking to a set 12 hour feeding pattern with very very few treats or extras. Shes very greedy ( and loves my cats food) so this has been challenging, but i do feel we are getting there slowly. She is on canninsulin 12 hourly, is this what Liza is on?

Everyone here is so knowledgeable and kind. I would have been lost without this forum. I am doing pippas blood tests myself and finding this really useful too.

Whereabouts are you in the UK? I 'm in west wales.

Huge hugs. Jenny x

[Hilda]

Re: Liza Locket

Natalie, thank you so much for this reassuring information. Perhaps I will tell you a little about Liza. I have had Liza for just a year. For the first 10 years of her life, Liza was what we call in the UK a Guide Dog. Her blind owner was a beautiful blond 25 year old lady who was very active, and Liza worked so hard to make her life good... taking her about London as well as our local area. Liza was retired when the Guide Dog association felt that she was losing interest in her work. Because her owner lives alone and was accepting a new guide dog, Liza came to live with me in her retirement. I have, however, known Liza all her life and her old owner still sees her regularly. It would be truly ironic if Liza developed sight problems. I really hope she doesn't. We'll see, and cope with it if it happens.

I am so reassured that you say that insulin response is a gradual build up and that I can expect her to react better as we get the dose right.

I'll keep the website informed. I am so glad I found it. Kindest regards, Hilda

[Hilda]

Re: Liza Locket

Hello Jenny... sadly I am miles away... I am in Norwich, just about as far from West Wales as I could be. I am SSSOOOO interested in what you said about cat food. Liza is a monster, who simply lies in wait for me to forget to close the kitchen door and hoovers up the cat food immediately. NOT ANY MORE!!! The cat doesn't like not having his food available all the time, but he'll get used to it. I swear that in the past Liza and the cat have been in cahoots over cat food.... the cat asks for it, ignores it, and then goes and tells Liza it is there!!

I have done the guilt trip and convinced myself that Liza became diabetic because of her cat food consumption. The vet says this isn't the case. I do think there should be more information about cat food being bad for dogs... we've all got used to not feeding chocolate, grapes, etc.....

Yes, it is early days. She is only on one injection a day. The vet said that she hoped we could regulate it with only one injection per day. Next test tomorrow. I will explore the possibility of doing my own tests further down the line.

Thank you so much to everyone for their kindness and for the informed support. Hilda

[farrwf]

Re: Liza Locket

• Liza is 10.5 years old, 33kg, and has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
• I have now given her 5 insulin injections over 5 days.
• she increased the dose from 17 units to 20 units.
• Liza is currently at 22 (398)
• The vet is aiming to get her down to below 10 (180).

Hilda

Hi Hilda & a warm welcome to Liza and yourself.

You are injecting insulin 1X per day?

What insulin are you using?

[JayneN]

Re: Liza Locket

Welcome to the family!

[CraigM]

Re: Liza Locket

She is only on one injection a day. The vet said that she hoped we could regulate it with only one injection per day. Next test tomorrow. I will explore the possibility of doing my own tests further down the line.

Thank you so much to everyone for their kindness and for the informed support. Hilda

Oops! My earlier post mentioning using 0.2 units per pound assumed you were injecting either Canninsulin or NPH insulin, twice per day. I'm sorry, but it is most unlikely that one injection will work out. Please discuss this with your vet.

What insulin are you using?

[jenny]

Re: Liza Locket

I agree with the cat food being bad for dogs suggestion. I have 2 dogs, the lab isnt interested but pippa will try and scoff a whole bowl of cat food ( if she couldnt find any food shed venture to the cat litter tray to eat their poos- filthy miss). Pippa is just very food orientated, sits under the table hoping for treats whilst we eat ( She rarely got anything) and hoovers up the floor for crumbs, the lab is sleeping on the sofa. (Pippas one wish is that she were taller and could reach the table or worktops).

One of my cats , basil, has been diabetic for 3.5 years now and is also on insulin. Diabetic cats ( my understanding) need food to graze on throughout the day rather than set measured meals. So there was always food about for him, but pippa was helping herself to it. My other cat polly, 17, loves dog food, or anything sweet like yogurt or jam ??? What is it all about?

So 50% of my pets are now diabetic. Despite always having the best food I thought possible. Doesnt seem fair does it, and does make us feel like we did something wrong somewhere . I know where youre coming from.

Gosh was suprised to hear that Liza is a retired Guide dog. Bless her. Hope she settles into diabetes quickly and doesn't loose her sight. This was/ is my greatest fear for Pippa and I just hope that it doesnt happen and if it does i cope and she has good quality of life ( reading threads on here re cataract blindness has been very helpful for me to put it in perspective as most dogs do seem to cope well if it happens).

You take care now. Jen x

[Shellie]

Re: Liza Locket

Hi Hilda! Welcome to you and Liza! Sounds like Liza has already had a great life and is lucky to have you to continue it!

Don't worry if it takes awhile to get her regulated. It can be an ongoing process and some dogs never get perfect regulation but do just fine. My Hank is a good example. Due to his eating habits, which are varied at best, he will never be fully regulated. As long as he remains in the lower end of the 200's, I'm happy with that. But around here, patience is often the one thing we are in short supply of since we all want our dogs to be regulated NOW! lol Carol will get you a patience hat if you need one! LOL

I have to say that cat food isn't nearly as bad for dogs as it's made out to be. It is a lot higher in fat and protein and wouldn't sustain them for a long term solution but for the short term or occaissional, it's fine. If you're unlucky like me to have a picky eater, there are days when cat food is all he'll eat. There are so many different diets that work with diabetic dogs in general...from raw food to grocery store. It sounds like you're lucky enough to have a food motivated dog! LOL

Do let us know if you are home testing...not sure if I read that somewhere here or not. It might be a good idea to consider and we can help you out a lot with it.

Again, welcome! Hugs!

[Hilda]

Re: Liza Locket

Dear Natalie, Carol W, Shellie, Craig and all the rest of you wonderful people who have kept me going over the past 10 days, including Harley's story. I took Liza Locket for her blood test this afternoon, and guess what - her level is down to 9.5 (172 in your money!!). 10 days ago she was 23 (Your 418). I hugged the vet when the reading showed on the monitor. I am SO relieved to know that the insulin is kicking in. I know I still have a long long way to go, but at least I know that she is responding. The 20 units of Canninsulin she has been having at 8:30 am with her first meal have seen her coping happily until about 6pm. After her evening meal at 6:30 she has been lethargic and her legs have been extremely wobbly. The vet has suggested 10 units with her evening meal. She doesn't want to interfere with the 20unit morning dose, since this appears to be working well.

It does appear that here in the UK we are not quite so heavily into testing daily or several times a day. At the moment the vet is suggesting a once a week test from herself - but with the reassurance that I can go at any time if I feel Liza is stopping responding.

We soldier on - but with a real sense of hope now, and an incredible feeling of thankfulness and gratitude to all of you for the support you have given. I will continue to write my problems and my successes.

Thank you so much. Hilda and Liza

[Jenkinsx5]

Re: Liza Locket

Welcome! I will echo the others and say that it TAKES TIME! BUT - YOU SOUND LIKE YOU AND LIZA ARE DOING GREAT! Isn't this board a great place to get info AND ENCOURAGEMENT?!! Hang in there!!!