Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New- Cujo, the anomaly

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

    Having used both R and now Humalog I would never suggest the use of R to anyone.
    I don't think it's fair to make this kind of blanket statement.

    My approach to diabetes is that there are NO bad insulins. Every dog is different and what worked for Mildred may not work at all for another dog and vice versa.

    In some cases Regular is too fast acting for a dog to handle, let alone Humalog - both can plunge the blood sugar of a dog who metabolizes them quickly and Humalog has more potential to do this than Regular.

    Chris, using Regular alone, used up the vast majority of Regular insulin in 6 hours - he received an injection every six hours. His lowest blood sugar was typically at 4 hours.

    I found the R to be inconsistent and unpredictable, sometimes lingering for 7-9 hours.
    There are folks out there who disdain Regular because of unpredictability based on its use with people. We did not find this to be the case at all. So, again, every dog is different. Besides, Regular is usually used somewhat differently in dogs. It's not typically used as a bolus insulin, more to create a flexible version of a lente insulin since 30% faster acting insulin can be too much but less is helpful.

    Finally, Humalog is extremely expensive and that has to be taken into consideration in many cases.

    I want to be especially clear here that I view using any correcting insulin as a more advanced technique and has to be considered very very carefully before attempting it. It requires a good working knowledge of how your dog already processes food and an intermediate insulin. and I would always want to explore the cause of unusual spikes before just making them go away with a little faster acting insulin.

    I don't think Cujo is ready for this.

    But I did want to note that corrections that had been made with NPH given between regular injections had even more potential for overlap than if Regular was used. Cujo had been getting "correcting" insulin at about 6 hours AFTER his regular injection, which is very different from a meal bolus.

    So my advice for Cujo is to not give any faster acting insulin at this point... it's just something to consider if, over time, it looks like he's going to spike sometimes for no identifiable reason.

    Natalie

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

      Kathy...I am obviously only relaying my personal experiences with R and Humalog. I am not suggesting that either should be used without close monitoring or without a great understanding of diabetes and insulins. My reasons for not liking R was NOT due to the onset but rather BECAUSE of the duration which ran into overlap issues with the NPH. I agree that with giving any insulin before a meal there can be risks involved. I will tell anyone that asks NOT to give insulin before a meal has been eaten. Again, I am very familiar with my dog's moods when deciding not to eat and personally feel comfortable dosing the Humalog before eating. I also take into consideration that I am with Mildred 24/7 and have every capability and do monitor closely, more closely than most. Mildred has been diabetic for 5 years now, I know her disease inside and out. You are right, as with anything with this disease what works for one may not for the next. I only added my experience here so if anyone using R is running into overlap issues they can be aware that Humalog or Novolog may offer a solution. Eileen

      Eileen and Mildred, 12 yo Border Collie Mx, 24.6 pounds, dx diabetic/hypothyroid 2004, gallbladder removed 2005, cataract surgery 2005, spindle cell sarcoma removed 2009, stroke 2009, tail removed 2011, dx with bladder cancer 2011, CDS, Organix~chicken / NPH,Humalog

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

        Natalie....my statement was made from personal experience, not a 'blanket' statement, I was speaking from MY situation. I was simply discussing my thoughts on R and Humalog, not suggesting that Cujo should be put on either. I personally found with Mildred the R would overlap mid afternoon with the NPH. Humalog works wonders for HER (Mildred), is out of her system before the NPH begins to peak and has allowed me to regain control of her bgs. Eileen

        Eileen and Mildred, 12 yo Border Collie Mx, 24.6 pounds, dx diabetic/hypothyroid 2004, gallbladder removed 2005, cataract surgery 2005, spindle cell sarcoma removed 2009, stroke 2009, tail removed 2011, dx with bladder cancer 2011, CDS, Organix~chicken / NPH,Humalog

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

          Eileen,

          What's in the two posts from you which followed your initial one to this thread clarifies this as being your personal experience with Mildred. There was nothing in the original one about hypoglycemia and safety re: injecting insulin before the meal. Without reading your follow up posts, it appears that you're advocating this--not just for Mildred--and that you don't think much of R insulin for use by anyone else.

          It would be helpful if you let people know what you're saying is based on Mildred because what's right for Mildred may not be right for someone else's dog.

          Kathy

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

            Kathy...You're right, I should have been more clear. I always assume that when I'm telling of my experiences it is just that, mine. I never 'tell' anyone what they should do as I do not know their dog or capabilities. I share so IF there is someone out there reading the post and it sounds familiar to something they are experiencing they know of other alternatives. Altho, I do know of several that have gone thru similar problems with R as myself and have nicely straightened out once changing to Humalog. Eileen

            Eileen and Mildred, 12 yo Border Collie Mx, 24.6 pounds, dx diabetic/hypothyroid 2004, gallbladder removed 2005, cataract surgery 2005, spindle cell sarcoma removed 2009, stroke 2009, tail removed 2011, dx with bladder cancer 2011, CDS, Organix~chicken / NPH,Humalog

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

              Eileen,

              We have a lot of new members here whose dogs have recently been dx'd and who are trying to gain information and experience with their dogs. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution so that there is no misunderstanding about what you can and can't do safely.

              But again with regard to R insulin, there are many people who do not share your opinion of it as they are using it successfully.

              Kathy

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

                I understand regarding new members. Again, my statements are my opinions based on what I have in front of me. I'm glad that others are seeming to have success with R. Eileen

                Eileen and Mildred, 12 yo Border Collie Mx, 24.6 pounds, dx diabetic/hypothyroid 2004, gallbladder removed 2005, cataract surgery 2005, spindle cell sarcoma removed 2009, stroke 2009, tail removed 2011, dx with bladder cancer 2011, CDS, Organix~chicken / NPH,Humalog

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

                  I would never suggest the use of R to anyone.
                  Well, I can think of at least one case in which it was invaluable.... two cases actually as I know of another dog who used Regular exclusively after being allergic to NPH and getting very poor results with Vetsulin.

                  In addition, Cujo's case of potentially using a correcting dose of insulin was not at meal time so the situation is quite different from Mildred's.

                  Had Mildred used Regular the way Chris did, it could have been a really great match with the NPH.

                  Natalie

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

                    Please...my thoughts are just that...MY thoughts on the subject. I am thrilled that there are some who seem to have good results. Again...I was NOT discussing Cujo's case or making suggestions to insulin dosing. I was very simply telling Mildred's story. Eileen

                    Eileen and Mildred, 12 yo Border Collie Mx, 24.6 pounds, dx diabetic/hypothyroid 2004, gallbladder removed 2005, cataract surgery 2005, spindle cell sarcoma removed 2009, stroke 2009, tail removed 2011, dx with bladder cancer 2011, CDS, Organix~chicken / NPH,Humalog

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

                      This is an excellent discussion. Really shows how different opinions can be.

                      But how is Cujo? I have to tell you his BG's look pretty darn good to me.
                      I feel horrible when I hear about dogs having seizures. I have had two of them myself and they are very disturbing.

                      A curve can be very different from one day to the next for no other reason than the rate of insulin absorption according to the book Using Insulin.

                      It also states to look for patterns over time.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: New- Cujo, the anomaly

                        Hi Sheryl,

                        Just stopping by, seen you had some bg figures posted, have you noticed less seizures now being the bg has come down some ?

                        Take care,
                        Dolly
                        Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X