My Baby Boy Greyson!

[k9diabetes]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Perhaps tell your vet that you've been reading veterinary sites about diabetes in dogs and they suggest giving each new dose three to five days to settle in before making another adjustment... let me see if I can find some evidence for you to back it up...

Okay, this comes directly from Vetsulin's manual for veterinarians, which can be downloaded at http://www.vetsulin.com/PDF/20585.pdf

Monitoring and Adjusting Dose

Six to seven days after starting Vetsulin, the dog should be returned for evaluation.

• Obtain owner’s overall impression of the dog’s progress.

• Re-weigh the dog. Overall dosage of Vetsulin should be modified for significant weight gains or losses.

• Blood glucose sampling should be evaluated to determine if regulation is achieved.

• Adjustments in dose based on the glucose curve evaluation should be in increments of 10 percent.

For example, if a dog is currently receiving 12 IU twice daily and has a blood glucose curve that indicates inadequate regulation, the dose should be increased 10 percent, or 1 IU.

• Additional adjustments in dose should be made no more frequently than every five to seven days.

• Once regulated on Vetsulin, the dog should be rechecked every two to four months.

[k9diabetes]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Wonder if you could grind up the kibble and mix into the cottage cheese... tell him it's a blizzard from Dairy Queen!

[k9diabetes]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

I can't remember which Freestyle I had. I think either one would be fine to ry.

I'd talk to the vet about the tapeworm med.

We never had to give it to Chris while he was diabetic so I don't have any experience with how the tapeworm infection or the med might mix with the diabetes. I imagine it will clear up pretty quickly though.

Natalie

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

is there anyone who has used/is using wellness dry food? greyson just refuses to eat the w/d now. i can get the canned down him but he won't touch the dry.

i bought a 4 lb bag of wellness "super5mix small breed adult health" today and at mealtime, i was able to give him ALL dry food! no having to mix anything in! no canned, no babyfood, nothing! i was so thrilled. he loves it, however i'm not sure if it is okay to give to him being a diabetic.

would anyone mind looking at this link (just the product description/ingredients/nutritional info) and telling me your thoughts? i will be crushed if this is not something i can use instead of the w/d because he loves it and he is super picky.

here is the link and i'm including some of the protein,fat,etc. info.

THANKS in advance!!

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_w...lt_health.html

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein Not Less Than 28.0%
Fat Not Less Than 15.0%
Fiber Not More Than 4.00%
Moisture Not More Than 11.0%
Calcium Not Less Than 1.20%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 0.90%
Vitamin E Not Less Than 150 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) Not Less Than 100 mg/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 3.00%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 0.50%
Beta-Carotene* Not Less Than 5 mg/kg
Lycopene* Not Less Than 0.25 mg/kg
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%
Microorganisms Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb

[ravenecw]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

I am not thrilled about feeding my dog W/D myself as I personally think there are ALOT better dog foods out there- someone can correct me if i'm wrong but the reason for the W/D is the high amount of fiber in it. Now with that being said, Greyson still has to eat and when my dog was first diagnosed the vet of course recommended the W/D but told me if she didn't eat it we would have to work with something else (like her normal dog food).

W/D
Average Nutrient Content:
Protein 15.0 min
Fat 6.0 min
Carbohydrate (NFE) 45.6
Crude Fiber 20.0 max
Calcium 0.40 min
Phosphorus 0.30 min
Sodium 0.21
Potassium 0.59
Magnesium 0.098
Carnitine 200 ppm min
243 kcal/per cup vs 420 kcal/per cup with the wellness

I do agree the wellness is an overall better dog food however. I'm not sure if I helped or not but if Greyson was my dog I would make sure he ate and worked with whatever he ate.

Someone else might have a better answer for you however.

is there anyone who has used/is using wellness dry food? greyson just refuses to eat the w/d now. i can get the canned down him but he won't touch the dry.

i bought a 4 lb bag of wellness "super5mix small breed adult health" today and at mealtime, i was able to give him ALL dry food! no having to mix anything in! no canned, no babyfood, nothing! i was so thrilled. he loves it, however i'm not sure if it is okay to give to him being a diabetic.

would anyone mind looking at this link (just the product description/ingredients/nutritional info) and telling me your thoughts? i will be crushed if this is not something i can use instead of the w/d because he loves it and he is super picky.

here is the link and i'm including some of the protein,fat,etc. info.

THANKS in advance!!

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_w...lt_health.html

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein Not Less Than 28.0%
Fat Not Less Than 15.0%
Fiber Not More Than 4.00%
Moisture Not More Than 11.0%
Calcium Not Less Than 1.20%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 0.90%
Vitamin E Not Less Than 150 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) Not Less Than 100 mg/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 3.00%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 0.50%
Beta-Carotene* Not Less Than 5 mg/kg
Lycopene* Not Less Than 0.25 mg/kg
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%
Microorganisms Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb

[k9diabetes]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

I put a question in Oz65's thread asking folks to let us know what they are using to provide additional fiber if they are supplementing their dogs food or home cooking.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...?t=1130&page=4

I know some are using pumpkin and I think Metamucil.

The thing is... it all depends on what your dog does with his/her insulin and his/her food. My dog on NPH and Wellness could look entirely different from your dog on NPH and Wellness. So in the end, you just try what you want to try and see what happens.

WD does tend to work extremely well with NPH in a lot of dogs. With Vetsulin, there seems to be more cases where the insulin is absorbed quickly and gets ahead of digestion of the WD so it doesn't always work as well. But it is still totally dog dependent.

If it's working well, the WD is worth at least considering keeping as a good food/insulin balance can be very hard to find. But if you aren't getting exceptional results, then you don't have much to lose by trying a food you like better.

If they won't eat it, of course then it's pointless to stick with it. And rumor has it Greyson has a corn allergy so definitely shouldn't be eating WD. There are lots of good corn-free foods out there.

Chris had no problem with corn other than it gave him gas... he was infamous most of his life for his windyness... he did not do well with barley or soy but did great with rice. In his case, canned food was digested pretty fast, faster than kibble.

Natalie

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

i just spoke with my vet and she wants me to email her the info on the wellness. from what i read to her, she is very concerned about the fat and fiber content (fat too high and fiber too low)

i mentioned the metamucil/benefiber to her and she said you have to be careful with it because it is meant to mix with water and she said something about it mixing with the dog's saliva and foaming up. something along the lines of choking. she seemed to think pumpkin would be a better option but i'm not sure he'd eat it as picky as he is. how much pumpkin would you suggest adding? he eats about 3/4 cup dry twice a day.

i hope that she will approve this food because he loves it and it's making mealtime less dreadful! wellness makes a low fat and a weight maintenance also but i'm not sure he would like that as much. i think he likes this because being for a small breed, the kibbles are TINY. the kibbles felt much larger in the other kind.

she agrees with him being allergic to corn that w/d is not a good long term option so i have to find something else.

thanks in advance for any input! i have canned pumpkin here so adding it is not a problem if i know how much to add.

[Patty]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Brittany,
The fat content is higher than a few others I've seen. I'm not sure how high is too high, but I do know if you want to compare nutritional info that Tami's Soaphie is on vetsulin with Wellness Venison and Rice http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_w...s_venison.html I know she adds brown rice to the food for fiber http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400&page=3

I was feeding Ali this food at her diagnosis and she stopped eating it, so I went looking for something else she'd eat. That's when I found the reduced fat CORE. I added 1 T of pumpkin to it at the time but she was on N insulin. Like Natalie said, you could duplicate the same diet in another dog and get drastically different results.

I can tell you my vet tried to keep us feeding the same food when Ali stopped eating. We tried for 3 weeks and nothing I did enticed her to eat. So I knew I had to do something.

I know that's not exactly the answer you're looking for but hope it helps some.
Patty

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

patty,

yes that helped a great deal. the wellness core reduced fat was one i was looking at. when i emailed my vet the info for the wellness small breed, i included the core info as well. are the kibbles pretty small? did ali seem to like it a lot? greyson is on nph insulin and is at 3.5 twice a day for now. we can't seem to get him regulated. i think i will stick with adding pumpkin to whatever i end up getting. i'd love to keep the small bites but the low fiber/high fat does concern me and it's not worth it just because he likes it if it works against what i'm trying to accomplish with him.

thanks!

Brittany,
The fat content is higher than a few others I've seen. I'm not sure how high is too high, but I do know if you want to compare nutritional info that Tami's Soaphie is on vetsulin with Wellness Venison and Rice http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_w...s_venison.html I know she adds brown rice to the food for fiber http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400&page=3

I was feeding Ali this food at her diagnosis and she stopped eating it, so I went looking for something else she'd eat. That's when I found the reduced fat CORE. I added 1 T of pumpkin to it at the time but she was on N insulin. Like Natalie said, you could duplicate the same diet in another dog and get drastically different results.

I can tell you my vet tried to keep us feeding the same food when Ali stopped eating. We tried for 3 weeks and nothing I did enticed her to eat. So I knew I had to do something.

I know that's not exactly the answer you're looking for but hope it helps some.
Patty

[Patty]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Brittany,
Sorry, for some reason I was thinking you were on vetsulin.

I don't think the reduced fat CORE kibbles are as big as many other brands. I did have to give Ali a few treats during the day as well though to keep her bg up as many dogs don't get a rise from CORE or, like Grace's Rolo, get a big rise later on.

This was one of Ali's curves on RF CORE:
From vet's office before I home tested
7am food/insulin
9:15a - 98
11:15a - 63 (she didn't eat her treat from her treat ball at 11 due to being excited at the vet so I told them to hand feed the rest)
1:30p - 102 (Treat at 1pm)
3:30p - 120 (Treat at 3pm)
5:00p - 200
Her treats were some organic blueberry biscuits I found at Petco.
Ali did like it. Unfortunately, her ears turned bright red on this food and I knew she was allergic to something in it.

I know another dog (she weighs 45.5 lbs) on RF CORE that eats 1/2 can Merrick Wild Buffalo and 1 cup CORE twice a day with Prozyme, and 1/3 cup CORE & 1/4 cup chicken breast 2PM snack.

Essentially, many dogs go too low with the CORE as it doesn't have as many carbs. You'll most likely need to add something. In my experience, pumpkin wasn't enough alone (even increasing the amount) and I still needed the biscuits (that's probably why the other dog uses the Merrick - to get a bit of a rise).

I know you're considering home testing. That will be very helpful in changing foods, so you know how the food/insulin are working together in Greyson and you can avoid going too low. I switched before I could home test (and before I found the boards) and starting adding the biscuits because I was seeing signs of Ali getting low. She'd get really quiet and start to stumble a little or come up to me and be VERY needy, nosing me. Scary...luckily I was home with her to catch them and learned to test soon after.

Take care,
Patty

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

i went and bought the reduced fat core. he's so picky i'm afraid he's going to look at it and think it is w/d because it is a similar size and color! maybe i can let him taste one just for him to see it's different.

i still haven't gotten brave enough to home test but i know it's something i will end up doing.

do you know anything about the dick van pattens natural balance biscuits? i have the venison & sweet potato kind. would you suggest giving him a couple of these during the day between meals?

i'm going to go the canned pumpkin route for the extra fiber. for 3/4 cup at mealtime would you think 1 or 2 tablespoons would do it? He's only about 12 pounds. (he gained weight quickly--probably due to my overfeeding) i'm always paranoid about him not eating enough to get his insulin.

he only ate half a cup this morning. do you think it was safe to give him his full dose? (3.5 units this morning)

[AlisonandMia]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Hi,

Just wanted to comment on the pumpkin - the normal "dose" of pumpkin for a dog or Greyson's size would probably be about a heaped teaspoon per meal at the very most. I'd start out with just a flat teaspoon and work up gradually too. Any more than that and and he could well end up with diarrhea. Pumpkin in small amounts is actually a great diarrhea remedy and generally sort of normalizes things nicely presumably because of the fiber, but in large amounts it has quite the opposite effect. A lot of dogs won't eat it in large amounts either.

For my boy who is a 48lb Australian Cattle Dog (not diabetic or anything - just has very slightly sensitive insides) I give for fiber about a tablespoon of pumpkin with a teaspoon or so of psyllium mushed through it. He also gets variable amounts of other veggies. Because he doesn't have any special needs I can afford to do everything by eye and just chuck in what looks like a nice amount of something. I'd think with a diabetic you'd be being a lot more precise than I am! His diet is home cooked/raw, BTW.

Alison

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

thanks, alison!

i will give him a flat teaspoon tonight. i definately don't want diarreah!! if he doesn't like the pumpkin, i will look into the metamucil powder.

just wanted to share a picture with you guys. i caught greyson "inspecting" his new food.

[brittanyt]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

i'm pretty bummed this morning.

greyson had an accident in the bed early this morning. he hasn't done that for awhile. this is really bad, right? he also measured at the highest on the ketodiastix. i'm wondering if it could be that first wellness food i got. surely not - he only ate a little over a cup between 2 meals.

he also hated the canned pumpkin. any piece of kibble coated with it, he spit out today. i couldn't get him to finish it so i gave him 3 or 4 spoonfuls of canned w/d. he only ate a few bites. turned his nose up at a biscuit.

is poor appetite along with his wetting the bed something i should take him in for? i'm really nervous. i bumped him up half a unit to 4 units this morning even though the chart said 4.5

i know it's better to go a little slower when increasing the dosage as i got up to 5 units way too quickly before.

any advice? i'm kind of freaking out here. :/

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: scared to death (Greyson)

Hi Brittany,
I am no expert but if Greyson has no appetite and wetting the bed along with high readings on the Ketodiastix I would certainly speak to your vet, but one of the experts will keep you right.
I am sorry I cannot be of more help but don't let it go too long contact your vet.

Hugs to you both.